19th rs track day oulton park 8th march

[BrotherMouzone]

As mentioned some super quick pace but also courteous drivers.

Here’s from a novice (to the car and the circuit) POV:

One lap in my second session (first in the dry)
https://youtu.be/c53mp1GXAvI

Three laps in my third session
https://youtu.be/ig29vjPqHVc

LaSource passed me at 0:57, then red GT4 at 1:16 and yellow GT4 at 5:34 (anyone here?)

[boxsey]

BrotherMouzone said:

As mentioned some super quick pace but also courteous drivers.

Here’s from a novice (to the car and the circuit) POV:

One lap in my second session (first in the dry)
https://youtu.be/c53mp1GXAvI

Three laps in my third session
https://youtu.be/ig29vjPqHVc

LaSource passed me at 0:57, then red GT4 at 1:16 and yellow GT4 at 5:34 (anyone here?)

The yellow GT4 is ChrisW (differentiated on the day from my yellow one by him having a rear towing eye fitted ). Taffy66 makes a guest appearance in his yellow 991 GT3 at the start of your single lap video.

[ginettajoe]

Yellow491 said:

ginettajoe said:

Why on earth would you want to turn in later?? Any car feels horrendous if you take that line!!! I'm afraid I would have to disagree regarding your sentiments about different cars needing varying lines to go round corners, and when you suggest that there is no chance of going in on the brakes, demonstrates to me, exactly how little you understand about driving a car!!!!

You are clearly not worth a reply with a response similar to how R operates on here,stick to your ginetta etc thanks.

I don't drive a Ginetta, but have been coaching for twenty five years!! Your arrogance matches your ignorance, maybe you should try and learn something!!!

[BrotherMouzone]

boxsey said:

The yellow GT4 is ChrisW (differentiated on the day from my yellow one by him having a rear towing eye fitted ). Taffy66 makes a guest appearance in his yellow 991 GT3 at the start of your single lap video.

[TDT]

boxsey said:

BrotherMouzone said:

As mentioned some super quick pace but also courteous drivers.

Here’s from a novice (to the car and the circuit) POV:

One lap in my second session (first in the dry)
https://youtu.be/c53mp1GXAvI

Three laps in my third session
https://youtu.be/ig29vjPqHVc

LaSource passed me at 0:57, then red GT4 at 1:16 and yellow GT4 at 5:34 (anyone here?)

The yellow GT4 is ChrisW (differentiated on the day from my yellow one by him having a rear towing eye fitted ). Taffy66 makes a guest appearance in his yellow 991 GT3 at the start of your single lap video.

I would have been in the passenger with ChrisW during that stint then... getting more and more ill by the moment!! - ... lol - that guy can pedal.

[Digga]

boxsey said:

BrotherMouzone said:

As mentioned some super quick pace but also courteous drivers.

Here’s from a novice (to the car and the circuit) POV:

One lap in my second session (first in the dry)
https://youtu.be/c53mp1GXAvI

Three laps in my third session
https://youtu.be/ig29vjPqHVc

LaSource passed me at 0:57, then red GT4 at 1:16 and yellow GT4 at 5:34 (anyone here?)

The yellow GT4 is ChrisW (differentiated on the day from my yellow one by him having a rear towing eye fitted ). Taffy66 makes a guest appearance in his yellow 991 GT3 at the start of your single lap video.

Good videos. It's amazing quite how different the 996 GT3 sounds compared to the 997. It does sound to me as though there's also probably more sound insulation in the later car, but the subtle differences are fascinating. Gearing too.

[Digga]

ginettajoe said:

I would have to disagree regarding your sentiments about different cars needing varying lines to go round corners...

Not doubting your experience. Certainly, it's going to be far greater than mine, but trying to absorb the 'right' advice (apropos of my question about Druids) are you saying all cars should use the same line?

The Driver61 video seems to expand (at 38mins 35sec) on the matter a bit more than that, by giving the overall 'right' line, but explaining how and why there may be variances: https://youtu.be/Slaab9SjWys?t=2239

[Steve Rance]

All experienced drivers should be able to work out the fastest line on any circuit relatively quickly. If he or she is good they will slightly adjust that line depending on the engine layout, power and relative grip levels of the car during the lifecycle of the tyre and grip levels on the circuit. There is no ‘absolute’ line only something ‘there or there abouts’. There are also sometimes different lines for qualifying and on long endurance stints. The variances May be subtle but they are real. My idea of deeper into a corner may in reality be a foot or so deeper.

We had a blowout on Dunlop’s when leading a GT cup round at Snet. It turned out that the Dunlop couldn’t handle the camber we were running for the Michelin’s in Carrera cup. We had to reduce camber by almost 2 degrees. Next time out on Dunlop’s at Brands I reasoned that the footprint of the Dunlop’s would be bigger under braking so Offer more stopping grip. I braked later and deeper at each corner than I did on Miches. Got pole and lap record. Not rocket science just logic and an open mind.

To say that there is one line only is far too simplistic.

Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 12th March 14:58

[Yellow491]

Digga said:

ginettajoe said:

I would have to disagree regarding your sentiments about different cars needing varying lines to go round corners...

Not doubting your experience. Certainly, it's going to be far greater than mine, but trying to absorb the 'right' advice (apropos of my question about Druids) are you saying all cars should use the same line?

The Driver61 video seems to expand (at 38mins 35sec) on the matter a bit more than that, by giving the overall 'right' line, but explaining how and why there may be variances: https://youtu.be/Slaab9SjWys?t=2239

I guess digga that guy must be wrong as well! ,i have a differant line and technique at a lot of different corners with some of my cars,i am clearly not arrogant enough to accuse some one they cant drive,or brag about how long or what i have done,but sadly thats typical PH.

Sorry i missed you steve,i did come down to your garage twice,but you were out.We did have a little chuckle peter maca and i,but we have all been there one time or another.The important part is out having fun and no harm done,after all it was slippery in places ,the low temps as well as wet did not help,thats on page 105 of the racers handbook;)

[Steve Rance]

Ha ha!! No Yellow, that one is totally down to me Mate. 100% driver error!

When are you all out next?

[BrotherMouzone]

Digga said:

ood videos. It's amazing quite how different the 996 GT3 sounds compared to the 997. It does sound to me as though there's also probably more sound insulation in the later car, but the subtle differences are fascinating. Gearing too.

I haven’t been in a 997, so next time.....

[Digga]

BrotherMouzone said:

Digga said:

ood videos. It's amazing quite how different the 996 GT3 sounds compared to the 997. It does sound to me as though there's also probably more sound insulation in the later car, but the subtle differences are fascinating. Gearing too.

I haven’t been in a 997, so next time.....

Would be a pleasure. There's a few other track days for you here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Unfortunately, I can only do the Donington one though.

[LaSource]

Digga said:

ood videos. It's amazing quite how different the 996 GT3 sounds compared to the 997. It does sound to me as though there's also probably more sound insulation in the later car, but the subtle differences are fascinating. Gearing too.

Unless you install a centre exhaust bypass on the 997 - then it can sound pretty mental

[ginettajoe]

Steve Rance said:

All experienced drivers should be able to work out the fastest line on any circuit relatively quickly. If he or she is good they will slightly adjust that line depending on the engine layout, power and relative grip levels of the car during the lifecycle of the tyre and grip levels on the circuit. There is no ‘absolute’ line only something ‘there or there abouts’. There are also sometimes different lines for qualifying and on long endurance stints. The variances May be subtle but they are real. My idea of deeper into a corner may in reality be a foot or so deeper.

We had a blowout on Dunlop’s when leading a GT cup round at Snet. It turned out that the Dunlop couldn’t handle the camber we were running for the Michelin’s in Carrera cup. We had to reduce camber by almost 2 degrees. Next time out on Dunlop’s at Brands I reasoned that the footprint of the Dunlop’s would be bigger under braking so Offer more stopping grip. I braked later and deeper at each corner than I did on Miches. Got pole and lap record. Not rocket science just logic and an open mind.

To say that there is one line only is far too simplistic.

....... and in the GT Cup, did you have the pleasure of competing against Danny Winstanley??

Edited by Steve Rance on Tuesday 12th March 14:58

[Steve Rance]

Nope but I have a good idea who you are now.

[boxsey]

Steve Rance said:

When are you all out next?

Next stop for me, TDT, bubblesNW and a bunch of others is two days at Spa on 1st and 2nd April.

[ginettajoe]

Digga said:

ginettajoe said:

I would have to disagree regarding your sentiments about different cars needing varying lines to go round corners...

Not doubting your experience. Certainly, it's going to be far greater than mine, but trying to absorb the 'right' advice (apropos of my question about Druids) are you saying all cars should use the same line?

The Driver61 video seems to expand (at 38mins 35sec) on the matter a bit more than that, by giving the overall 'right' line, but explaining how and why there may be variances: https://youtu.be/Slaab9SjWys?t=2239

..... the line he shows through Druids is 'the line', and the only variation is how close you get to the first apex, which generally is dependent on grip, which is then relative to tyres! Using slicks, you almost clip the first apex kerb, but on a treaded tyre, you miss the first kerb by approximately half a cars width!! Whatever the variation, it is important to turn in on the brakes (as shown in the video), in both dry, and wet conditions, and contrary to certain peoples idea, it is even more important to stay on the brakes, when it is wet!!

[Digga]

ginettajoe said:

Digga said:

ginettajoe said:

I would have to disagree regarding your sentiments about different cars needing varying lines to go round corners...

Not doubting your experience. Certainly, it's going to be far greater than mine, but trying to absorb the 'right' advice (apropos of my question about Druids) are you saying all cars should use the same line?

The Driver61 video seems to expand (at 38mins 35sec) on the matter a bit more than that, by giving the overall 'right' line, but explaining how and why there may be variances: https://youtu.be/Slaab9SjWys?t=2239

..... the line he shows through Druids is 'the line', and the only variation is how close you get to the first apex, which generally is dependent on grip, which is then relative to tyres! Using slicks, you almost clip the first apex kerb, but on a treaded tyre, you miss the first kerb by approximately half a cars width!! Whatever the variation, it is important to turn in on the brakes (as shown in the video), in both dry, and wet conditions, and contrary to certain peoples idea, it is even more important to stay on the brakes, when it is wet!!

Thanks.

Looking at other driver's in car videos and also knowing how my car was turning in, that line makes sense. Of all the corners, it felt like that was the one I left the most on the table, Will wait for a dry track I think!

[ginettajoe]

Digga said:

ginettajoe said:

Digga said:

ginettajoe said:

I would have to disagree regarding your sentiments about different cars needing varying lines to go round corners...

Not doubting your experience. Certainly, it's going to be far greater than mine, but trying to absorb the 'right' advice (apropos of my question about Druids) are you saying all cars should use the same line?

The Driver61 video seems to expand (at 38mins 35sec) on the matter a bit more than that, by giving the overall 'right' line, but explaining how and why there may be variances: https://youtu.be/Slaab9SjWys?t=2239

..... the line he shows through Druids is 'the line', and the only variation is how close you get to the first apex, which generally is dependent on grip, which is then relative to tyres! Using slicks, you almost clip the first apex kerb, but on a treaded tyre, you miss the first kerb by approximately half a cars width!! Whatever the variation, it is important to turn in on the brakes (as shown in the video), in both dry, and wet conditions, and contrary to certain peoples idea, it is even more important to stay on the brakes, when it is wet!!

Thanks.

Looking at other driver's in car videos and also knowing how my car was turning in, that line makes sense. Of all the corners, it felt like that was the one I left the most on the table, Will wait for a dry track I think!

As in all corners, the secret is to turn in early, but very slowly initially, so you are transferring weight gently to the "outside" wheel, combining that with coming off the brakes as you turn!! Turning in late, and more aggressively means you are using more steering input, the combination of which, helps to generate understeer, which in any car, will snap into oversteer once the outside front wheel finds grip, and in any rear engined car, it is like a pendulum!!
I was looking after a chap, Julian, in a black 993RS and another chap, Alan, in a white 994, on the day, and unfortunately the way the track was coned, encouraged some dubious driving!!

[Taffy66]

ginettajoe said:

As in all corners, the secret is to turn in early, but very slowly initially, so you are transferring weight gently to the "outside" wheel, combining that with coming off the brakes as you turn!! Turning in late, and more aggressively means you are using more steering input, the combination of which, helps to generate understeer, which in any car, will snap into oversteer once the outside front wheel finds grip, and in any rear engined car, it is like a pendulum!!
I was looking after a chap, Julian, in a black 993RS and another chap, Alan, in a white 994, on the day, and unfortunately the way the track was coned, encouraged some dubious driving!!

I was staying in the same hotel as Jules and Alan the night before and we enjoyed a few beers and a lovely meal together along with Boxsey,TDT.Farouk and others. As i'm a total novice and first time in my GT3 at Oulton to say i was lost is an understatement.
I expressed these sentiments to Jules at lunchtime to which he said that he had to leave early for London and as he had paid for an instructor for a full day i could use him for the afternoon..I now wish i'd accepted his kind offer and i understand you were his instructor..