Keyless entry aka Porsche Entry & Drive System
Discussion
Why would anybody pay extra for this ? Even the configurator states :
”Keyless entry and drive: unlocking and locking of the vehicle including luggage compartment lid and engine start/stop. Note: The Porsche Entry & Drive System uses state-of-the-art technology. However, it cannot be completely ruled out that the key’s wireless encryption code is intercepted and used to open or steal the vehicle.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6416075/Y...
Sure no system is infallable, but choosing this option seems to be about the same as leaving the door open with the keys in the ignition, along with a note saying “please steal this car”.
”Keyless entry and drive: unlocking and locking of the vehicle including luggage compartment lid and engine start/stop. Note: The Porsche Entry & Drive System uses state-of-the-art technology. However, it cannot be completely ruled out that the key’s wireless encryption code is intercepted and used to open or steal the vehicle.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6416075/Y...
Sure no system is infallable, but choosing this option seems to be about the same as leaving the door open with the keys in the ignition, along with a note saying “please steal this car”.
Just as people have for years left car keys on tables or hooks within easy reach of a letterbox, people will leave wireless keys unprotected from scanning when there are cheap and simple ways to block the signals.
The system is convenient and with a tiny,tiny bit of thought can easily be protected from these devices.
The system is convenient and with a tiny,tiny bit of thought can easily be protected from these devices.
I suppose it’s one of the few benefits of the Porsche buying experience, i.e. having absolutely everything as an optional extra. At least then you can ‘opt out’ and stick to the old fashioned, less convenient but slightly more secure method of turning a key in the ignition.
Most other manufacturers now seem to force you to have it.
Most other manufacturers now seem to force you to have it.
Smiljan said:
Just as people have for years left car keys on tables or hooks within easy reach of a letterbox, people will leave wireless keys unprotected from scanning when there are cheap and simple ways to block the signals.
The system is convenient and with a tiny,tiny bit of thought can easily be protected from these devices.
Unfortunately keyless entry is another example of large companies implementing security systems in a hubristic manner. I've spent much of my career highlighting idiotic flaws in implementations large companies and their classically trained development teams have thought were a great and infallible idea :/The system is convenient and with a tiny,tiny bit of thought can easily be protected from these devices.
I presume the tiny bit of effort you allude to is keeping the key in some sort of Farraday cage (wether that be a pouch or case)?
At the moment criminals prowl the streets in the middle of the night looking for cars with Keyless entry. Your key sitting in your house shouts here I am and off they go with your car. I don't believe the tiny bit of effort you allude to is equivalent to not hanging your key near the door. IMO it's far more likely you will forget to put the key in the case, then forget your key by the door. For example coming home and leaving it in your trouser pocket or handbag.
From what I hear that may not be necessary anyway, as the next generation of keyless entry systems will use motion sensors to deactivate the key when stored. Another myopic analysis of the issue yielding a half baked solution. Criminals currently steal your car off your drive as that is the lowest hanging fruit, the least risk for them. The proposed solution may eliminate that, but the criminals will simply move onto the next easiest path. They'll simply wait at car parks, one will follow you and the other will wait by the car and once you're out of sight of your car they'll trigger the exchange and be off with your car. Timing analysis can help with this sort of attack, but it can't eliminate it, so many cars will still be stolen.
Yes you could pop your key in a faraday cage after every use, but then whats the USP of keyless entry, as doing that is no easier then simply pressing the button on your key.
Until the industry gets its act together I will not specify keyless entry. If a car I purchase has keyless entry I will ask for it to be deactivated. They need to implement secondary verification, such as biometric verification of the person triggering the exchange.
Smiljan said:
On the plus side it makes it less likely they’ll break into your house or threaten you when they can steal the car this easily.
You can never really eliminate that risk. I don't leave my key by the door, but I do leave it downstairs so if someone does break in they have no need to come upstairs and ask me "where are the car keys?".What you can do is ensure you are not the lowest hanging fruit. As the vast vast majority of criminals will take the easiest and safest (for them) path. Breaking in and threatening the owner increases their likelihood of being caught and the potential consequences if they are (likely to get a custodial sentence, especially if the owner decides to fight back and gets hurt).
You can temporarily disable comfort access by pressing the lock and unlock buttons simultaneously if you want......
For the convenience of locking/unlocking without using the key I think the system is a good idea.
Latest Panamera and Cayenne models all have the partial system - no trad ignition switch but no comfort access handles /switches externally - I have found there's nowt more irking than having to take the key out of my pocket to unlock, only to have to put it back in to use the car (or in the cupholder for example) whereupon I forget it when I get out or have to rummage in my pocket to lock the car again.....
For the convenience of locking/unlocking without using the key I think the system is a good idea.
Latest Panamera and Cayenne models all have the partial system - no trad ignition switch but no comfort access handles /switches externally - I have found there's nowt more irking than having to take the key out of my pocket to unlock, only to have to put it back in to use the car (or in the cupholder for example) whereupon I forget it when I get out or have to rummage in my pocket to lock the car again.....
Phooey said:
Can you remove the fixed starter key and still have keyless entry? I like keyless but do worry that the fixed starter key might be a bit of a temptation to a thief.
The issue is not with the underlying exchange/verification process. It's actually more secure than a traditional barrel which is why most manufacturers have done away with traditional keys. The main issue is the exchange being triggered from the car, rather then the user pressing a button on the key.So Keyless ignition on its own is as secure as cars have been. Once locked the car wont start even if the key is in range. The user first needs to unlock it by pressing a button on the key.
Although I agree they may as well have left the slot to put the key in. Its pretty stupid pressing a button/turning a fake key to turn the car on and then chucking the real key in the cupholder :/
Pope said:
For the convenience of locking/unlocking without using the key I think the system is a good idea.
Given the current fashion trends I generally take my key and phone out anyway. Would be nice if I could put it into the key slot instead of the cup holder 
Admittedly for my wife it would be great as she could leave it in her handbag.IMO kick to open the boot is the best feature keyless entry enables.
thewatchbloke said:
Keyless ignition, a solution for a problem that never existed.
That's a bit harsh! Perhaps an order of magnitude less useful than a remote for the telly but still useful nonetheless. I have it on 3 different cars and you get used to the convenience of not having to root around for a key to lock and unlock the car and then to start it. I've grown to rather like it and need to retrain myself when I drive a car without it.AW10 said:
thewatchbloke said:
Keyless ignition, a solution for a problem that never existed.
That's a bit harsh! Perhaps an order of magnitude less useful than a remote for the telly but still useful nonetheless. I have it on 3 different cars and you get used to the convenience of not having to root around for a key to lock and unlock the car and then to start it. I've grown to rather like it and need to retrain myself when I drive a car without it.I deliberately didn’t spec comfort access on my Taycan, yet it appears to have come with it anyway. Key in my pocket, approach the car and opens and then just drive away. Maybe I needed to pay extra to disable it?!
If you want a properly pointless option you can spec an electric charging port cover. Very little extra convenience and what appears to be almost a 100% chance of going wrong at some point!
If you want a properly pointless option you can spec an electric charging port cover. Very little extra convenience and what appears to be almost a 100% chance of going wrong at some point!
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