£45K budget...your thoughts appreciated.
Discussion
Porsche911R said:
20k Boxster s 987.2 :-) is the best value drivers car for sale atm .
I have been on the look out for a 997.2 S for 8 months.
The blue ashgoods car has been the best for ages with 29k miles and £45k, sold quite fast.
But just no nice cars have been for sale or are for sale atm with the miles or spec I am after.
I love my 987.2 Spyder it is a special car and Jzm seems a peach, or pay less and buy yours back, the car needs PCCB or a brake upgrade, so rare as hens teeth with pccb's, that cars never going to get cheaper it’s too special esp as people realise new cars cannot offer what these do if you like driving.
Lots of people back dating , new cars are Petty dull, and nice 964 and 993 are more like £65+ and will slowly eat money month on month. Even then all he ones I have seen at PCGB events looks tired , so they are a loss makers if you buy at today’s prices and spend the money needed to make it nice, a risk if you change your mind, so needs to be a keeper.
I thought about a e46 Manual CS but again rare and min 60k miles but £35k gets you the best one for sale atm.
Elise cup another option, as fast as a GT4 on track and peanuts to run, solid money also.
V6 Exige 350 have just hit £45k also, while the early cars were a bit ruff around the edges, the 350 up its game and again will be safe money as people will hunt out the 350 over the early cars. But imo the Elise is the better car Lotus make.
Or last if you have a good OPC the new GT4 will will worth upping the budget due to resale.
The BMW E46 CS is a great suggestion. Didn’t realise that they were Under £40k these days I have been on the look out for a 997.2 S for 8 months.
The blue ashgoods car has been the best for ages with 29k miles and £45k, sold quite fast.
But just no nice cars have been for sale or are for sale atm with the miles or spec I am after.
I love my 987.2 Spyder it is a special car and Jzm seems a peach, or pay less and buy yours back, the car needs PCCB or a brake upgrade, so rare as hens teeth with pccb's, that cars never going to get cheaper it’s too special esp as people realise new cars cannot offer what these do if you like driving.
Lots of people back dating , new cars are Petty dull, and nice 964 and 993 are more like £65+ and will slowly eat money month on month. Even then all he ones I have seen at PCGB events looks tired , so they are a loss makers if you buy at today’s prices and spend the money needed to make it nice, a risk if you change your mind, so needs to be a keeper.
I thought about a e46 Manual CS but again rare and min 60k miles but £35k gets you the best one for sale atm.
Elise cup another option, as fast as a GT4 on track and peanuts to run, solid money also.
V6 Exige 350 have just hit £45k also, while the early cars were a bit ruff around the edges, the 350 up its game and again will be safe money as people will hunt out the 350 over the early cars. But imo the Elise is the better car Lotus make.
Or last if you have a good OPC the new GT4 will will worth upping the budget due to resale.
Edited by Porsche911R on Sunday 13th January 21:42
A couple of thoughts...
If you go for the Cayman/Boxster option. The value will eventually dwindle to very low 000's Whereas the 964/993 will at least (hopefully) retain its value or appreciate if you spend money on improving it., so do you just want to drive it, or it something of a hobby? - How mechanically capable are you?
The newer cars are 'different' to drive, with a much more modern feel (997) whereas the 964 is much more 'classic' Porsche - Have you driven or owned a 964/993?
964/993 are far less mileage sensitive than late cars, They typically go 100k + miles before needing top end attention and the engines are far more rebuildable (is that a word) :-) than later models.
How often will you drive it? - that will make a difference.
If it were me - I would try to find a reasonable 993 which was the best of the aircooled cars. I have owned a 964 and a 993 and currently a 991.2 GTS
Just my 2p's worth
old stuff has old history, a lot of which you don't know. In general, old stuff also breaks. Old may be more pure, nimble, pretty etc...., but has its obvious drawbacks. Newer less likely to break and less history to comb through.
But, newer also suffers from more depreciation.
You pick your poison.
But, newer also suffers from more depreciation.
You pick your poison.
issue with the 964 market is they were good value at £20k and you had room to refresh them. ie a top end rebuild , some new shocks and a blow over paint job.
At £60k all need work, in fact one might say we are at a point they need a >£30k rebuild :-( which makes one a £90k car
or do you just buy one at 60k with rot and drive it and try and sell it later with a bit more rot lol
But I cannot say I have seen a clean one even at top events and every one wants top money for cars with 130k miles and paint bubbles !
a 964 is the same to rebuild as a 73RS or a £210k 911S so they are worth rebuilding, a 964 is a massive risk for a rebuild.
these are old cars now and none have yet been rebuilt or the odd one which has at 90k don't sell.
people who paid £12k which is the lowest I saw them could spend the £30k and still be up, but they seem keepers for the owners now.
kit cars or back dates now seem good value, when once they were a rip off at £90k for a bitsa sc back date, now a real 911S is >£200k , these back dates can work if you are just after the looks but with modern paint, shocks and brakes, but it's still a fake car which I find hard to see any value in at £100k when you can buy real Porsche.
I still think a 987.2 Spyder is the car at £45k with great looks, rare enough to keep it's value and no rebuild needed but offers the driver enough of the feel needed vs the modern tat :-)
Or you do buy a 964 and spend £30k on one and just keep it and hope the money comes back to you if you have to sell up in 10 years knowing you then have a rebuilt one.
C2 997.2 S well people seem to be keeping those and the GTS, it's hard to think with the massive volumes sold there is not a nice one for sale.
At £60k all need work, in fact one might say we are at a point they need a >£30k rebuild :-( which makes one a £90k car
or do you just buy one at 60k with rot and drive it and try and sell it later with a bit more rot lol
But I cannot say I have seen a clean one even at top events and every one wants top money for cars with 130k miles and paint bubbles !
a 964 is the same to rebuild as a 73RS or a £210k 911S so they are worth rebuilding, a 964 is a massive risk for a rebuild.
these are old cars now and none have yet been rebuilt or the odd one which has at 90k don't sell.
people who paid £12k which is the lowest I saw them could spend the £30k and still be up, but they seem keepers for the owners now.
kit cars or back dates now seem good value, when once they were a rip off at £90k for a bitsa sc back date, now a real 911S is >£200k , these back dates can work if you are just after the looks but with modern paint, shocks and brakes, but it's still a fake car which I find hard to see any value in at £100k when you can buy real Porsche.
I still think a 987.2 Spyder is the car at £45k with great looks, rare enough to keep it's value and no rebuild needed but offers the driver enough of the feel needed vs the modern tat :-)
Or you do buy a 964 and spend £30k on one and just keep it and hope the money comes back to you if you have to sell up in 10 years knowing you then have a rebuilt one.
C2 997.2 S well people seem to be keeping those and the GTS, it's hard to think with the massive volumes sold there is not a nice one for sale.
You have a point on the risks of taking the 964/993 route. to counter that , my experience of a 964 build was that a lot of things that will probably need doing to the car were already covered off as part of the build so I ended up with pretty much new suspension and running gear at the end of it. For someone looking to build something other than a standard car all you need to worry about is making sure that there's not too much rot in the shell and that the engine has a decent leakdown performance. The problem is expectations. People are looking for 30-50 year old retro looks in a car that looks brand new. You are on a hiding to nothing trying to make anything look brand new. Maybe its better to accept that a 30 year old car with have a certain patina which surely should be part of its charm. My car looks brand new and to be honest, I think that as a result it is missing in some character. I certainly wouldnt like it any less if it were a little worn around the edges - as long as it drove well and the running gear was in good order. Its a pity that there's an obsession with seemingly prioritising how everything looks over how it drives.
Edited by Steve Rance on Monday 14th January 10:45
I think your initial thoughts are exactly where I'd be.
997.2 are just about the perfect sports car IMO, modern enough to be 'relatively' trouble free with rust issues etc, but with enough old school charm with the size, looks and steering feel.
I went this route a couple of years ago and have really enjoyed it (alongside a 458 and a 993 at one point). It's a great road car.
Still find myself looking at 987 Spyders though...have driven a couple and if you want an open top sports car there's little to touch them at this price. They're sublime.
997.2 are just about the perfect sports car IMO, modern enough to be 'relatively' trouble free with rust issues etc, but with enough old school charm with the size, looks and steering feel.
I went this route a couple of years ago and have really enjoyed it (alongside a 458 and a 993 at one point). It's a great road car.
Still find myself looking at 987 Spyders though...have driven a couple and if you want an open top sports car there's little to touch them at this price. They're sublime.
Porsche911R said:
issue with the 964 market is they were good value at £20k and you had room to refresh them. ie a top end rebuild , some new shocks and a blow over paint job.
At £60k all need work, in fact one might say we are at a point they need a >£30k rebuild :-( which makes one a £90k car
or do you just buy one at 60k with rot and drive it and try and sell it later with a bit more rot lol
But I cannot say I have seen a clean one even at top events and every one wants top money for cars with 130k miles and paint bubbles !
a 964 is the same to rebuild as a 73RS or a £210k 911S so they are worth rebuilding, a 964 is a massive risk for a rebuild.
these are old cars now and none have yet been rebuilt or the odd one which has at 90k don't sell.
people who paid £12k which is the lowest I saw them could spend the £30k and still be up, but they seem keepers for the owners now.
kit cars or back dates now seem good value, when once they were a rip off at £90k for a bitsa sc back date, now a real 911S is >£200k , these back dates can work if you are just after the looks but with modern paint, shocks and brakes, but it's still a fake car which I find hard to see any value in at £100k when you can buy real Porsche.
I still think a 987.2 Spyder is the car at £45k with great looks, rare enough to keep it's value and no rebuild needed but offers the driver enough of the feel needed vs the modern tat :-)
Or you do buy a 964 and spend £30k on one and just keep it and hope the money comes back to you if you have to sell up in 10 years knowing you then have a rebuilt one.
C2 997.2 S well people seem to be keeping those and the GTS, it's hard to think with the massive volumes sold there is not a nice one for sale.
Most of the comments made above about the 964/993 costs are rubbish. I would agree that you may have to compromise a little at your budget if £45k but there are decent cars out there at that price that can be used and enjoyed if an older car floats your boat.At £60k all need work, in fact one might say we are at a point they need a >£30k rebuild :-( which makes one a £90k car
or do you just buy one at 60k with rot and drive it and try and sell it later with a bit more rot lol
But I cannot say I have seen a clean one even at top events and every one wants top money for cars with 130k miles and paint bubbles !
a 964 is the same to rebuild as a 73RS or a £210k 911S so they are worth rebuilding, a 964 is a massive risk for a rebuild.
these are old cars now and none have yet been rebuilt or the odd one which has at 90k don't sell.
people who paid £12k which is the lowest I saw them could spend the £30k and still be up, but they seem keepers for the owners now.
kit cars or back dates now seem good value, when once they were a rip off at £90k for a bitsa sc back date, now a real 911S is >£200k , these back dates can work if you are just after the looks but with modern paint, shocks and brakes, but it's still a fake car which I find hard to see any value in at £100k when you can buy real Porsche.
I still think a 987.2 Spyder is the car at £45k with great looks, rare enough to keep it's value and no rebuild needed but offers the driver enough of the feel needed vs the modern tat :-)
Or you do buy a 964 and spend £30k on one and just keep it and hope the money comes back to you if you have to sell up in 10 years knowing you then have a rebuilt one.
C2 997.2 S well people seem to be keeping those and the GTS, it's hard to think with the massive volumes sold there is not a nice one for sale.
blackmamba said:
Porsche911R said:
issue with the 964 market is they were good value at £20k and you had room to refresh them. ie a top end rebuild , some new shocks and a blow over paint job.
At £60k all need work, in fact one might say we are at a point they need a >£30k rebuild :-( which makes one a £90k car
or do you just buy one at 60k with rot and drive it and try and sell it later with a bit more rot lol
But I cannot say I have seen a clean one even at top events and every one wants top money for cars with 130k miles and paint bubbles !
a 964 is the same to rebuild as a 73RS or a £210k 911S so they are worth rebuilding, a 964 is a massive risk for a rebuild.
these are old cars now and none have yet been rebuilt or the odd one which has at 90k don't sell.
people who paid £12k which is the lowest I saw them could spend the £30k and still be up, but they seem keepers for the owners now.
kit cars or back dates now seem good value, when once they were a rip off at £90k for a bitsa sc back date, now a real 911S is >£200k , these back dates can work if you are just after the looks but with modern paint, shocks and brakes, but it's still a fake car which I find hard to see any value in at £100k when you can buy real Porsche.
I still think a 987.2 Spyder is the car at £45k with great looks, rare enough to keep it's value and no rebuild needed but offers the driver enough of the feel needed vs the modern tat :-)
Or you do buy a 964 and spend £30k on one and just keep it and hope the money comes back to you if you have to sell up in 10 years knowing you then have a rebuilt one.
C2 997.2 S well people seem to be keeping those and the GTS, it's hard to think with the massive volumes sold there is not a nice one for sale.
Most of the comments made above about the 964/993 costs are rubbish. I would agree that you may have to compromise a little at your budget if £45k but there are decent cars out there at that price that can be used and enjoyed if an older car floats your boat.At £60k all need work, in fact one might say we are at a point they need a >£30k rebuild :-( which makes one a £90k car
or do you just buy one at 60k with rot and drive it and try and sell it later with a bit more rot lol
But I cannot say I have seen a clean one even at top events and every one wants top money for cars with 130k miles and paint bubbles !
a 964 is the same to rebuild as a 73RS or a £210k 911S so they are worth rebuilding, a 964 is a massive risk for a rebuild.
these are old cars now and none have yet been rebuilt or the odd one which has at 90k don't sell.
people who paid £12k which is the lowest I saw them could spend the £30k and still be up, but they seem keepers for the owners now.
kit cars or back dates now seem good value, when once they were a rip off at £90k for a bitsa sc back date, now a real 911S is >£200k , these back dates can work if you are just after the looks but with modern paint, shocks and brakes, but it's still a fake car which I find hard to see any value in at £100k when you can buy real Porsche.
I still think a 987.2 Spyder is the car at £45k with great looks, rare enough to keep it's value and no rebuild needed but offers the driver enough of the feel needed vs the modern tat :-)
Or you do buy a 964 and spend £30k on one and just keep it and hope the money comes back to you if you have to sell up in 10 years knowing you then have a rebuilt one.
C2 997.2 S well people seem to be keeping those and the GTS, it's hard to think with the massive volumes sold there is not a nice one for sale.
http://www.911uk.com/adverts.php?category=Porsche+...
OP, get yourself in a 4C for a test drive they are so much fun and a real event every time you use it. Whilst not perfect they can be modified quite cheaply to drive so much better than a stock car. Jamie at Alfaworks is the go to for modifications and he makes this into what the factory should have done at the start.
I've had loads of Porsche's but none give me the grin factor that my 4C does. 7.5k miles in 18 months as an occasional Sunday car is testament to my enjoyment of driving it.
You don't see them on every street corner either, I've seen a handful out and only 2 actually driving on the road and one of them was in France.
I've had loads of Porsche's but none give me the grin factor that my 4C does. 7.5k miles in 18 months as an occasional Sunday car is testament to my enjoyment of driving it.
You don't see them on every street corner either, I've seen a handful out and only 2 actually driving on the road and one of them was in France.
Andy-6ufnp said:
OP, get yourself in a 4C for a test drive they are so much fun and a real event every time you use it. Whilst not perfect they can be modified quite cheaply to drive so much better than a stock car. Jamie at Alfaworks is the go to for modifications and he makes this into what the factory should have done at the start.
I've had loads of Porsche's but none give me the grin factor that my 4C does. 7.5k miles in 18 months as an occasional Sunday car is testament to my enjoyment of driving it.
You don't see them on every street corner either, I've seen a handful out and only 2 actually driving on the road and one of them was in France.
Thats a very good shout. Always take a second look at one I've had loads of Porsche's but none give me the grin factor that my 4C does. 7.5k miles in 18 months as an occasional Sunday car is testament to my enjoyment of driving it.
You don't see them on every street corner either, I've seen a handful out and only 2 actually driving on the road and one of them was in France.
A friend of mine has a 993 C2S which has 64k miles on the clock and is in very good condition. He has owned it for 25 years or so. Every couple of years it costs him around £4k for a service and fettling, and a lot less on the years in between. He also has a 930 turbo which has had a full restoration, the restoration alone was circa £60k
Both are very nice, but they do cost a bit to maintain, they are a great experience to drive but the 930 is tiring especially on winding mountain roads.
Gratuitous pic of the two cars and my Evora
Both are very nice, but they do cost a bit to maintain, they are a great experience to drive but the 930 is tiring especially on winding mountain roads.
Gratuitous pic of the two cars and my Evora
blackmamba said:
Most of the comments made above about the 964/993 costs are rubbish. I would agree that you may have to compromise a little at your budget if £45k but there are decent cars out there at that price that can be used and enjoyed if an older car floats your boat.
Sadly all of my comments ring true when looking at the cars for sale and the ROT in all of them regarding 964's.Like wise I did you say can buy a car with ROT and then sell it with more rot !! but the older these cars get the more money needs spending on metal work.
No ones rebuilding a 964 less than £30k that's a given.
even the older cars seem to have less rot than 964's, but there are 3 or 4 places the 964 just seems to rot away and you are not buying a 964 C2 manual with no rot for £45k !
Steve Rance said:
You have a point on the risks of taking the 964/993 route. to counter that , my experience of a 964 build was that a lot of things that will probably need doing to the car were already covered off as part of the build so I ended up with pretty much new suspension and running gear at the end of it. For someone looking to build something other than a standard car all you need to worry about is making sure that there's not too much rot in the shell and that the engine has a decent leakdown performance. The problem is expectations. People are looking for 30-50 year old retro looks in a car that looks brand new. You are on a hiding to nothing trying to make anything look brand new. Maybe its better to accept that a 30 year old car with have a certain patina which surely should be part of its charm. My car looks brand new and to be honest, I think that as a result it is missing in some character. I certainly wouldnt like it any less if it were a little worn around the edges - as long as it drove well and the running gear was in good order. Its a pity that there's an obsession with seemingly prioritising how everything looks over how it drives.
Patina is not rot.mates just bought a early car which looks tired at £100k but it's org paint and painting it would 1/2 it's value ! but when he's done the engine etc it will be a great drive and have great Patina for a early 60's 911.
the issue with most 964 is it's not patina, it's clearly rot :-(
Andy-6ufnp said:
OP, get yourself in a 4C for a test drive they are so much fun and a real event every time you use it. Whilst not perfect they can be modified quite cheaply to drive so much better than a stock car. Jamie at Alfaworks is the go to for modifications and he makes this into what the factory should have done at the start.
I've had loads of Porsche's but none give me the grin factor that my 4C does. 7.5k miles in 18 months as an occasional Sunday car is testament to my enjoyment of driving it.
You don't see them on every street corner either, I've seen a handful out and only 2 actually driving on the road and one of them was in France.
look great value at £35k, and as you say many fix's for the gear shift geo and a remap.I've had loads of Porsche's but none give me the grin factor that my 4C does. 7.5k miles in 18 months as an occasional Sunday car is testament to my enjoyment of driving it.
You don't see them on every street corner either, I've seen a handful out and only 2 actually driving on the road and one of them was in France.
seem even a good investment at current prices,
lacks manual though and a tad wide at the back for our tiny B roads, so it's a hard sell over a 220 Elise imo which is really a better drivers car in every way.
But a 4c is a nice shout and I was close after looking into the mods and fix's, but the Auto kills it when push comes to shove.
m33ufo said:
Pretty much as the title suggests....I have a max £45K budget and considering which Porsche best fits the bill - mostly for weekend drives and the like. Must be manual and naturally aspirated.
My thoughts are....997.2, 987 Spyder (my preference over the CR), 964 or 993.
The 997 and Spyder are within my comfort zone having previously owned more than a few. It gets sketchy for me when I start looking at 964's and 993's - I have no clue where to start!
Any advice appreciated - even better if you know of a well sorted example you can point me in the direction of?
Sold my M3 CSL in late 2018. Had the same budget and the same use case as yourself. Bought a 987 Spyder. No regrets.My thoughts are....997.2, 987 Spyder (my preference over the CR), 964 or 993.
The 997 and Spyder are within my comfort zone having previously owned more than a few. It gets sketchy for me when I start looking at 964's and 993's - I have no clue where to start!
Any advice appreciated - even better if you know of a well sorted example you can point me in the direction of?
Edited by GregorFuk on Monday 14th January 16:16
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