996 Turbo/997 Carerra
Discussion
I've read the previous threads and it seems if you can put up with a slightly dated interior then the 996 Turbo is where to put your money.
My next car will probably be a 911 996/997 with a budget of around £32k.
Im not interested in climbing values but the car will be a weekend toy that needs to excite just looking at it.
I'm Currently in a Tvr Chimaera so lightly older interiors etc don't bother me much, it's all about the event when you put your foot down!
Alhough I'm not a huge fan of the 996 headlights I'm sure I could put up with them if I owned one!
Has anyone gone the Turbo route and never looked back?
My next car will probably be a 911 996/997 with a budget of around £32k.
Im not interested in climbing values but the car will be a weekend toy that needs to excite just looking at it.
I'm Currently in a Tvr Chimaera so lightly older interiors etc don't bother me much, it's all about the event when you put your foot down!
Alhough I'm not a huge fan of the 996 headlights I'm sure I could put up with them if I owned one!
Has anyone gone the Turbo route and never looked back?
I ran TVRs in the past.
I bought a 996 turbo a few years back and thought it was a great car. Yes, the interior is dated, but IMHO it still looks nicer and will age better than the 997 interior. They are very fast and pretty sure-footed. They lack noise other than full throttle. They are also, in a way "too fast" for the road and need to be on a big track or autobahn to really show what they are capable of. People say they're not a sports car, but rather a grand tourer, to which I say nonsense. They are not as focused and sharp as Porsche's GT range, but then they are pretty much at the pinnacle of their game and just about anything compared to them is somehow 'less'.
I've never owned a Carrera, but I'd say sound wise, they will be better (no turbos - NA always better on that score) but there are the well documented issues of engine issues. See on here and also the 911uk forum.
You really need to drive both and also have passenger time in them to really decide which suits better.
I bought a 996 turbo a few years back and thought it was a great car. Yes, the interior is dated, but IMHO it still looks nicer and will age better than the 997 interior. They are very fast and pretty sure-footed. They lack noise other than full throttle. They are also, in a way "too fast" for the road and need to be on a big track or autobahn to really show what they are capable of. People say they're not a sports car, but rather a grand tourer, to which I say nonsense. They are not as focused and sharp as Porsche's GT range, but then they are pretty much at the pinnacle of their game and just about anything compared to them is somehow 'less'.
I've never owned a Carrera, but I'd say sound wise, they will be better (no turbos - NA always better on that score) but there are the well documented issues of engine issues. See on here and also the 911uk forum.
You really need to drive both and also have passenger time in them to really decide which suits better.
Buy one.
I have a long term 993 (19 years) and thought about selling 5 years ago.
I went out and bought a 996 Turbo to see if I liked it enough to sell the 993.
Long story short it was amazing.
I did a few mods (suspension/brakes and a remap) what a machine.
8mins around the Nurburgring, stable in the wet around spa and Cadwell, took me across the Alps with ease and comfort.
Hats off to the German Engineering to keep such a quick car so stable.
I ended up selling due to money issues, but have managed to keep the 993, which I love as a classic and now plan to keep for good.
I have a long term 993 (19 years) and thought about selling 5 years ago.
I went out and bought a 996 Turbo to see if I liked it enough to sell the 993.
Long story short it was amazing.
I did a few mods (suspension/brakes and a remap) what a machine.
8mins around the Nurburgring, stable in the wet around spa and Cadwell, took me across the Alps with ease and comfort.
Hats off to the German Engineering to keep such a quick car so stable.
I ended up selling due to money issues, but have managed to keep the 993, which I love as a classic and now plan to keep for good.
angry said:
Buy one.
I have a long term 993 (19 years) and thought about selling 5 years ago.
I went out and bought a 996 Turbo to see if I liked it enough to sell the 993.
Long story short it was amazing.
I did a few mods (suspension/brakes and a remap) what a machine.
8mins around the Nurburgring, stable in the wet around spa and Cadwell, took me across the Alps with ease and comfort.
Hats off to the German Engineering to keep such a quick car so stable.
I ended up selling due to money issues, but have managed to keep the 993, which I love as a classic and now plan to keep for good.
Nice story. What year was your one and what mods did you do ?I have a long term 993 (19 years) and thought about selling 5 years ago.
I went out and bought a 996 Turbo to see if I liked it enough to sell the 993.
Long story short it was amazing.
I did a few mods (suspension/brakes and a remap) what a machine.
8mins around the Nurburgring, stable in the wet around spa and Cadwell, took me across the Alps with ease and comfort.
Hats off to the German Engineering to keep such a quick car so stable.
I ended up selling due to money issues, but have managed to keep the 993, which I love as a classic and now plan to keep for good.
10 years and 75k miles into my 996TT (125k miles in total). Owned 2 Chimaeras previously and ran a Tuscan S with Powers 4.5 alongside the 996TT for years. Both used in all weathers, the Porsche being the easier to get along with.
I love my TVR's but apart from the sound the Porsche is the better car. It's cost me less (a lot less!) and covered more miles for that. It will also seat 4 (just) and I have a roof rack for it too
.
I've just spent a few thousand refurbishing it and apart from the interior (which is still good) the rest is now close to new. I can't say the same for my Tuscan despite a full respray... it's now replaced by an R8 having once thought I'd never sell.
IMHO it's a safer place for your money than a 997 too... although I don't think you'll take a bath on a nice 997.
I love my TVR's but apart from the sound the Porsche is the better car. It's cost me less (a lot less!) and covered more miles for that. It will also seat 4 (just) and I have a roof rack for it too
.I've just spent a few thousand refurbishing it and apart from the interior (which is still good) the rest is now close to new. I can't say the same for my Tuscan despite a full respray... it's now replaced by an R8 having once thought I'd never sell.
IMHO it's a safer place for your money than a 997 too... although I don't think you'll take a bath on a nice 997.
T1547 said:
Have you considered a 987.2 Cayman S? £30k would get you a very nice low mileage well spec’d example. Otherwise 997 Carrera S you’re looking at gen 1 and everything that (possibly) entails. Gen 2 Carrera base may just about be in reach for a leggy one at £32k.
Still a bit undecided but the engine problems with the n/a 996 and 997 scare me a little. Im not sure what it is but the cayman does not really appeal to me as much.
Edited by Belle427 on Wednesday 16th January 20:47
I own ‘04 996T. I’ve had it for 4 years. It has 80K on the clock. It is a tremendous motor and surely more of an event than a 997. It has been very expensive to run (£4K a year and just 4K miles a year). I constantly look at 997.2 Carreras. I like the simplicity and the decent engine. They do coke-up though. I can’t get away from the fact that it would be less special, less interesting and likely less exciting.
I’d like a GT3 but from my family’s point of view and for grand touring (which I like) they’re not as good. I think a GT3 is probably most exciting on the best days, but generally not as practical. I think Digga now owns a GT3 and can opine further. Get a turbo but beware the running costs.
I’d like a GT3 but from my family’s point of view and for grand touring (which I like) they’re not as good. I think a GT3 is probably most exciting on the best days, but generally not as practical. I think Digga now owns a GT3 and can opine further. Get a turbo but beware the running costs.
ScienceTeacher said:
I own ‘04 996T. I’ve had it for 4 years. It has 80K on the clock. It is a tremendous motor and surely more of an event than a 997. It has been very expensive to run (£4K a year and just 4K miles a year). I constantly look at 997.2 Carreras. I like the simplicity and the decent engine. They do coke-up though. I can’t get away from the fact that it would be less special, less interesting and likely less exciting.
I’d like a GT3 but from my family’s point of view and for grand touring (which I like) they’re not as good. I think a GT3 is probably most exciting on the best days, but generally not as practical. I think Digga now owns a GT3 and can opine further. Get a turbo but beware the running costs.
Do they coke up? I thought unlike some of the VAG FSI engines the design was different and they don't sufferI’d like a GT3 but from my family’s point of view and for grand touring (which I like) they’re not as good. I think a GT3 is probably most exciting on the best days, but generally not as practical. I think Digga now owns a GT3 and can opine further. Get a turbo but beware the running costs.
ALso I just paid for a carbon clean on my V8 R8 and it cost £400+VAT. TBH that isn't so bad once every 50,000 miles vs £12k to rebuild a M97 block
angry said:
8mins around the Nurburgring...
^Another testament to the fact that the 996 turbo most definitely is a sports car!Here's mine not coping at all well on the Nurburgring.
Aside from lapping respectably, the trip to and from Germany was an absolute pleasure too. The full leather 996 interior is a very, very nice and comfortable place to spend time in.
I went from a Griffith 4.3 BV to a 996 Carrera via some other stuff. The 996 is a great blend of usability, capability and character. It’s far more confidence-inspiring and safer than the TVR - if those things matter to you.
It doesn’t quite get my heart racing as much when it turn the key, or give me the same sense of achievement (!) when I get back from a run but it’s a great car to own and run.
The only thing that worries me a bit is your budget of £32k. If you’ve got £32k that sounds more like a budget of £25k to spend on the car, the rest to address the inevitable “to do” list and as a just-in-case.
It doesn’t quite get my heart racing as much when it turn the key, or give me the same sense of achievement (!) when I get back from a run but it’s a great car to own and run.
The only thing that worries me a bit is your budget of £32k. If you’ve got £32k that sounds more like a budget of £25k to spend on the car, the rest to address the inevitable “to do” list and as a just-in-case.
griffter said:
I went from a Griffith 4.3 BV to a 996 Carrera via some other stuff. The 996 is a great blend of usability, capability and character. It’s far more confidence-inspiring and safer than the TVR - if those things matter to you.
It doesn’t quite get my heart racing as much when it turn the key, or give me the same sense of achievement (!) when I get back from a run but it’s a great car to own and run.
The only thing that worries me a bit is your budget of £32k. If you’ve got £32k that sounds more like a budget of £25k to spend on the car, the rest to address the inevitable “to do” list and as a just-in-case.
I just wondered where the money goes when people say you need £4K a year to run one.It doesn’t quite get my heart racing as much when it turn the key, or give me the same sense of achievement (!) when I get back from a run but it’s a great car to own and run.
The only thing that worries me a bit is your budget of £32k. If you’ve got £32k that sounds more like a budget of £25k to spend on the car, the rest to address the inevitable “to do” list and as a just-in-case.
I can afford to run one but there is no way I’d buy if that were true.
My mileage would be less than 3000 per year and I do all work myself.
A n/a 996/997 would need to have an engine rebuild for me to buy one, which complicates matters.
Belle427 said:
I just wondered where the money goes when people say you need £4K a year to run one.
Effectively, you are owning and running a supercar. A relatively midly mapped 996 turbo will happily, pretty much keep up with the likes of a V10 Audi R8 for example.The drivetrain's handling huge torque, so clutches and diff seals and the like are not unheard of.
Then there is the engine, which basically, on a turbo, has two of everything that's expensive and potentially needs maintenance:
- 2 x turbocharger
- 2 x wastegate and actuator
- 2 x heat shields
- 2 x intercoolers
I ran a 996 turbo for about 4 years/45,000 miles. I reckon it cost less to run than my wifes focus if you factor in depreciation. Alot of bills get massively cut down if you can do work yourself (i changed one of the turbos myself), or find a good indy (mine was not a porsche specialist but charged £45 an hour, they're only cars at the end of the day and are not that specialised. I reckon averaging out bills was maybe 2 grand a year (not including fuel) so not too bad overall.
Also i had all 3 rads and condensors changed for about 1200 quid total, so depends on where you go. Im guessing the above poster went exclusively OPC, the only issue i had is that certain fittings dont age well and can be a serious PITA to remove, its the labour overall i found most expensive rather than the parts.
Also i had all 3 rads and condensors changed for about 1200 quid total, so depends on where you go. Im guessing the above poster went exclusively OPC, the only issue i had is that certain fittings dont age well and can be a serious PITA to remove, its the labour overall i found most expensive rather than the parts.
Very different cars...I’ve got a manual 997 GTS and have driven a manual 996 Turbo. Yes the Turbo is quick but I think the 997 is a nicer drive. I’m also not a fan of the interior and would disagree with what the poster above said about the 997 dating quicker but then we’re all different,
If you read threads about any of the 911 Turbo’s from 996 onwards I think the one constant theme is that people that don’t like them feel they’re a bit too competent/fast and that it’s hard to get the est out of them on the road.
In short you need to drive both. A RWD 997 Carrera is quite a different drive from a 4WD 996 Turbo.
If you read threads about any of the 911 Turbo’s from 996 onwards I think the one constant theme is that people that don’t like them feel they’re a bit too competent/fast and that it’s hard to get the est out of them on the road.
In short you need to drive both. A RWD 997 Carrera is quite a different drive from a 4WD 996 Turbo.
nebpor said:
Digga said:
The only thing it does not have two of is radiators. It has three of those, and they all cost about £750 + fitted, each. Don't ask how I know.
Are the turbo radiators completely different from the stock engine rads then? That's a LOT!!Digga said:
Effectively, you are owning and running a supercar. A relatively midly mapped 996 turbo will happily, pretty much keep up with the likes of a V10 Audi R8 for example.
The drivetrain's handling huge torque, so clutches and diff seals and the like are not unheard of.
Then there is the engine, which basically, on a turbo, has two of everything that's expensive and potentially needs maintenance:
Yup, add to that any manner of internal coolant hoses, brake pipes (!) top mounts and suspension bits. Did I say exhaust...The drivetrain's handling huge torque, so clutches and diff seals and the like are not unheard of.
Then there is the engine, which basically, on a turbo, has two of everything that's expensive and potentially needs maintenance:
- 2 x turbocharger
- 2 x wastegate and actuator
- 2 x heat shields
- 2 x intercoolers
Mine has cost that to run over 4 years and 15,000 miles. £4K a year. Honestly.
Belle427 said:
I just wondered where the money goes when people say you need £4K a year to run one.
I ran one of the last 996 Turbo Ss for over 6 years (replacing a series of TVRs like many here), starting at 50,000 miles, then doing between 3,000 and 4,000 miles per year. Looking at my record of costs, I spent somewhere around £10k on servicing and repairs, plus another £3k on an exhaust to make it sound half decent, so far less than £4k per year, but still not peanuts.Big bills were all typical Turbo stuff: curing labour intensive boost leaks soon after I bought it; radiators and condensers (fortunately not all of them); water pump; replacing all the manifold and turbo bolts (more labour!); suspension refresh (dampers, top mounts and coffin arms); pricey PCCB brake pads; you get the idea. There were also plenty of other minor bits and bobs like a/c leaks, diverter valves, heat shields, clutch accumulator, as well as routine servicing and some cosmetics like a wheel refurb, but I dodged some of the other scary bills: my rear spoiler worked reliably, and the PCCB discs were hardly worn, for example! Some of those bills were mileage related, such as the suspension, but things like boost leaks and corroded rads and exhaust bolts are more age related.
Of course, those costs don't include insurance, tax or fuel (another £1,500 per year, say), but you'll spend those on anything interesting. I was particularly pleased that tax was only £300ish per year being pre-March 2006!
All said, I would heartily recommend a 996 Turbo, as long as you go into it with a realistic expectation that they are powerful, heavy and ageing cars that are complex and have some expensive components. However they are beautifully engineered, and do offer stupendous performance and owner satisfaction for the money.
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