Very unique 996 C2

Very unique 996 C2

Author
Discussion

The Goat

Original Poster:

158 posts

196 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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Hi Guys,

I've been a long time lurker on here not posted in the Porsche forum before.

I have a 2004 996.2 C4 and I follow CLR (Carrera Lightweight Racing) on Facebook because I love the idea behind the car and I am fascinated with the development and how the car has progressed.

So today I am surprised to find out that the car is up for sale, no solid asking price just open to offers.

It's a very unique car with many high end and bespoke parts/modifications I am curious as to what a car like this could be worth and how a reasonable price could be calculated?

What do the PH Porsche massive think?

Here's a link to the Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=264970...

ATM

18,092 posts

218 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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I think the price might be in the GT3 area but no idea really.

randlemarcus

13,507 posts

230 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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Can't see him getting anywhere near what he says he's spent on that.

roca1976

565 posts

114 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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It is very bespoke to the owner and creator, fairly tricky to find the same like minded person willing to pay strong money. Probably more difficult to sell in comparison to a CSR build which is better established in 996 circles?

If I was spending serious money on a 996 carrera I would buy a factory aero car with strong options:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2018...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...

However I couldn't justify those prices compared to my black tintop 6spd c2 which offers outstanding bang for buck at half the cost of those kitted cars...


EGTE

996 posts

181 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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The car had full Hartech rebuild before it was modded, don't forget.

Also the creator says himself:

"Been thinking about this for some time. Basically everyone would like a GT3 but the £50K difference between the C2 and GT3 is a little off-putting. My aim is to come up with a package where the end result is to get as close to the GT3 experience as possible but without the massive price delta"

So by his own words it has to be less than £50K. I would suggest a LOT less, as modded cars are so difficult to (re)sell.

Far better to me to just buy a Lotus (Evora S or Exige S come to mind), if you want these levels of performance and feedback.

g7jhp

6,959 posts

237 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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This is the problem with all modded 996 C2 v 996 GT3, even the CSR concept.

The cost of doing it gets too close to the price of a 996 GT3 and a straight GT3 is a safer bet as it's an OEM Porsche product.

ATM

18,092 posts

218 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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Did everyone read the bit about making the car available to testers - I dont like the idea of that with my P+J.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

233 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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ATM said:
Did everyone read the bit about making the car available to testers - I dont like the idea of that with my P+J.
I don't get that. What I do with my car is surely my business?

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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I fear some of you may be missing the point of the car, it wasn’t built to “beat” a GT3 from a performance, price or investment potential perspective, rather it was designed from the outset to be as light as possible whilst retaining a large proportion of the original car’s practicality and refinement.
In addition to reducing its mass, Richard wanted to make the car as tactile and engaging to drive as some other Porsche icons, cars such as the 964 RS/2.7 RS.
With today’s ever increasing traffic on our roads and the ever decreasing tolerance for excessive speed, the CLR is probably more relevant as a road car than any GT3.

It’s a shame Porsche chose to join the ridiculous horsepower “war” that the majority of manufacturers have foolishly chosen, rather than build smaller, lighter, more agile cars, as they used to do...


D.no

706 posts

211 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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EGTE said:
Far better to me to just buy a Lotus (Evora S or Exige S come to mind), if you want these levels of performance and feedback.
...Or stick with Porsche if any kind of engineering and build integrity is desired.

CarreraLightweightRacing

2,011 posts

208 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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EGTE said:
The car had full Hartech rebuild before it was modded, don't forget.

Also the creator says himself:

"Been thinking about this for some time. Basically everyone would like a GT3 but the £50K difference between the C2 and GT3 is a little off-putting. My aim is to come up with a package where the end result is to get as close to the GT3 experience as possible but without the massive price delta"

So by his own words it has to be less than £50K.
This comment was made in Sep 2015 on page 1 of a 44 page thread, so no reflection whatsoever of what the car actually turned into. A few lines down in the same post you will see the following

Been thinking about this for some time. Basically everyone would like a GT3 but the £50K difference between the C2 and GT3 is a little off-putting. My aim is to come up with a package where the end result is to get as close to the GT3 experience as possible but without the massive price delta...…All in for say a £10k ballpark (not looked into this yet, so fag packet maths at present)

At that very early stage I had no idea that I would ever end up where I am now and that £10K spiralled into a whole order of magnitude more, the custom Inconel exhaust alone pretty much eats up that figure!

Slippy is bang on; adding horses would have been simple and relatively cheap but ultimately boring and not exactly ground-breaking.
The early 911r and ST were my point of reference/inspiration in the main, with regular access to a 964RS and 3.0RSR also helping. Porsche has long forgotten its roots on the leichtbau front. If Porsche themselves had built the car I have (which they never would do due to cost constraints (full carbon/kevlar panels, Inconel625 exhaust, Ohlins suspension, forged wheels, titanium bolts, fully adjustable suspension components, carbon roof and a million other things), the car would be simply unobtainium. Just think about the hoohah they make when they announce the GT3RS is 20kgs lighter than the regular GT3, for which there is a 30% premium. Now consider a 253.6kg reduction retaining all 4 seats, carpet, trim panels…(44kg of stuff to be precise) and the fuss they would claim over such a car.

A 996GT3 also misses the point, from a performance perspective believe it or not they are considerably slower than the CLR: 266BHP/ton vs around 290BHP/ton but more importantly the car was developed with the sole aim to do exactly what Henry mentions above ” tactile and engaging to drive”.

I don’t mean for this to come out argumentative/controversial or looking like I’m trying to defend my own creation, so please forgive me if that is how you read this. I am very open to criticism and in fact actively promote it, in order for me to up my game. I just feel that there is a complete misunderstanding in what this car is and I fully get that, as to trawl through a 44 page thread to really understand the ethos is something very few would have the time or inclination for.
To get a little taste for the level of detail of this project, perhaps this small collection of pictures I put together will help.

Regardless please carry on, all feedback is helpful in the main wink Also a massive thanks for the support and guidance from many of the Porsche heavy-weights for their input during the process, Slippy and Mr Rance to name a couple off the top of my head, with many others here and on 911UK wink


g7jhp

6,959 posts

237 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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Great points and if Porsche had kept r seats and lost that much weight it would have been interesting to see what the price had been?

It's a one off, so niche, but you only need one buyer. Good luck selling.

I'm sure that lucky person will enjoy the drive.

Jim1556

1,771 posts

155 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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This is not a Max Power/Halfords bolt on modded Saxo, its THE M&S, silky, bespoke, specially made 996!

With a bigger budget and marketing, this is more or less a 996 of the Singer variety with a focus on driving tactility, usability and retains the practicality of the original.

Stunning accomplishment Richard, shame you're selling it...

EGTE

996 posts

181 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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D.no said:
EGTE said:
Far better to me to just buy a Lotus (Evora S or Exige S come to mind), if you want these levels of performance and feedback.
...Or stick with Porsche if any kind of engineering and build integrity is desired.
Oh yes, those oh-so-robust engines they have. BTW yes I've owned both marques.

Tommie38

758 posts

193 months

Thursday 10th October 2019
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I think there are lots of people that would understand the vision of the builder, but the issue would be getting them to pay for it.

Sadly in the UK, pretty much nobody gets close to getting back what they put into a modified car. I suspect most of us have learned that the hard way at one point or another.

ATM

18,092 posts

218 months

Thursday 10th October 2019
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Exactly

So buying a well modified car is always a good idea if the price reflects the market not valuing the car well.

I think for the right price there would be a fight for this car.


CarreraLightweightRacing

2,011 posts

208 months

Friday 11th October 2019
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For me the trouble I face is the interpretation of The CLR. A few such examples above have been used to describe the car here and elsewhere: Replica, modified, tuned, project... My question is does a Singer or RUF also fall into these categories? For me no. So where is the border of where one is a project/modified and another a Singer or RUF.

I see the RPM CSR as a project for example, however I see my CLR as a brand in it's own right, as the level of development and changes are so far away from the original. I'm sure if I had the time and inclination to market the CLR properly with video reviews... many would understand. My take is The CSR is more of a few nicely chosen bolt-on mods made into a package. The closest real world example I see with my car is something like the Alfaholics GTA-R. It is still an Alfa like the CLR is still a Porsche whereas A 'RUF' or 'Singer' are only identified as such and have lost the Porsche name.

ATM raises a good point above about at the right price. I'm not sure what that is, hence stating 'open to offers'. At say £55k I think it is a give away. From memory and for reference, the RPM 996 CSR Evo was something like £60K for their package (obviously excluding car). Most 996GT3's on PH right now fall into the £60-70K price range.

EGTE

996 posts

181 months

Friday 11th October 2019
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Including bks like "Lotus cars have no engineering integrity".......

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Friday 11th October 2019
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Nice car, definitely worth more than an identical standard Carrera with the same miles and condition for me, not that everyone will see it that way.

Owner just needs to see what the person who wants it values it above that standard Carrera, then pick the highest bid. Couldn’t be simpler.

Comparing it to a Singer or Ruf is daft quite frankly.

Standard Carrera with Hartech worth £25k, standard GT3 worth £65k, I’d pick a number in the middle of the two and if it was up at a well known specialist for that I think it’d sell. Any closer to the GT3 and I think most would just want a GT3.


Kettmark

901 posts

152 months

Friday 11th October 2019
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In sure the vendor wouldn't let it go for near Careers money. I would not. one of the many advantages over a gt3 is its not mileage sensitive. You could use this as a daily driver and probably be depreciation proof.
I for one would love to own it.
What's the bottom dollar op?