Very unique 996 C2
Discussion
Kettmark said:
In sure the vendor wouldn't let it go for near Careers money. I would not. one of the many advantages over a gt3 is its not mileage sensitive. You could use this as a daily driver and probably be depreciation proof.
I for one would love to own it.
What's the bottom dollar op?
Its only depreciation proof if you get it for the right price - and irrelevant if you never sell. If you pay high then you'll end up selling low. I think if you want a daily driver then you're better off with a vanilla 996 c2. Sure you could buy this and daily drive it but why would you. I have a vanilla 996 c2 which has been used for daily driving. If the price for this is in the 50k range then would you really want to use it all the time and leave it unattended wherever. If the answer is yes then you clearly have a large disposable income and probably own other cars. The number of people who will buy this and use it daily has to be a seriously low number. Although obviously I'd be the first to say well done to that man.I for one would love to own it.
What's the bottom dollar op?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is a very valid point J. The suspension components are now at revision 5 after complete design changes numerous times. One of the reasons for this was in part due to the point you raise. As such the final design now utilises standard off the shelf bearing sizes or Powerflex bushes so that any suspension component can be easily and cheaply overhauled. I did all the design drawings so know which standard bearings/bushes/rod ends etc need to be used. All the carbon panels could be replaced like for like from a number of suppliers. The only tricky part would be the wing mirrors as these are a RUF mirror which I then had made in Carbon which was a horrendously expensive exercise. But lets be honest, how often are mirrors replaced, almost never you will find. All the poly carbonate windows can be bought from 'perspex4performance', wheels are Fuchs, brakes are original, engine is Hartech so standard service, LWFW can be overhauled (replacement plate), gearbox has just been overhauled, so good for another 80k miles, Ohlins can be sent for service... All the special one-off stuff should never need replacing (roof, PAS conversion, Inconel exhaust, top mounts...) and to be honest with the car being so light now, wear and tear is much reduced. The wheels were also chosen in this exact dimension to suit CUP2 tyre fitment. I have no concerns about difficulty in replacing unique parts as everything was designed to be overhauled to also save cost.Just remembered the front steering tie rods are just about the only other part that would need to be custom made (Modify original) but this can easily be done for around £100 for the pair. I have the supplier contact details for this.
I made a little video today highlighting some of the key features on the CLR 996. This is raw footage with no editing or preparation (either the car or myself), just a case of picking up my phone and running with it, so apologies in advance. I also forgot to go over many aspects of the car such as the steering rack, Polycarbonate windows, wiring loom alterations… but hopefully you catch the drift. Due to the size it is split into six parts including front and rear axle, exterior, interior, paint scheme, test drive and exhaust testing:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
it's dropped £2k alreadyhttps://rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/996-c4s-csr...
Porsche911R said:
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
it's dropped £2k alreadyhttps://rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/996-c4s-csr...
-Carbon doors
-Carbon door cards
-Carbon bonnet
-Carbon roof (very labour intensive and expensive)
-Carbon front wings
-Carbon RUF mirrors
-Lexan windows
-PAS system conversion
-Engine pulleys redesigned and new config for belt run
-Hartech engine- Closed deck: Liners/pistons...
-Gearbox overhaul
-Inconel625 exhaust
-Carbon/Inconel tips
-Adj Castor arms
-Adj Rear upper arms
-Adj Rear toe arms
-Suspension custom bolts and plates (replace eccentric bolt system)
-Adjustable pillow ball top mounts (custom made to suit Ohlins)
-Custom Spring caps to suit Ohlins
-Bespoke CLR diet: conservative 150kg+ weight delta (1000's hours)
-Titanium wheel bolts
-TUV approval (No value in the UK but an extremely expensive process and makes the car sellable on the continent)
Probably a few other things but this is just off the top of my head
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
It looks a lovely car and a great spec with many similarities to my CLR. Here is a list of some of the differences I noted though (basically all the really expensive bespoke stuff and all the exotic materials):
-Carbon doors
-Carbon door cards
-Carbon bonnet
-Carbon roof (very labour intensive and expensive)
-Carbon front wings
-Carbon RUF mirrors
-Lexan windows
-PAS system conversion
-Engine pulleys redesigned and new config for belt run
-Hartech engine- Closed deck: Liners/pistons...
-Gearbox overhaul
-Inconel625 exhaust
-Carbon/Inconel tips
-Adj Castor arms
-Adj Rear upper arms
-Adj Rear toe arms
-Suspension custom bolts and plates (replace eccentric bolt system)
-Adjustable pillow ball top mounts (custom made to suit Ohlins)
-Custom Spring caps to suit Ohlins
-Bespoke CLR diet: conservative 150kg+ weight delta (1000's hours)
-Titanium wheel bolts
-TUV approval (No value in the UK but an extremely expensive process and makes the car sellable on the continent)
Probably a few other things but this is just off the top of my head
I agree quite different, the RPM is just a few nice bolt on's, and imo not £40k worth as stated also on a 4WD car !!-Carbon doors
-Carbon door cards
-Carbon bonnet
-Carbon roof (very labour intensive and expensive)
-Carbon front wings
-Carbon RUF mirrors
-Lexan windows
-PAS system conversion
-Engine pulleys redesigned and new config for belt run
-Hartech engine- Closed deck: Liners/pistons...
-Gearbox overhaul
-Inconel625 exhaust
-Carbon/Inconel tips
-Adj Castor arms
-Adj Rear upper arms
-Adj Rear toe arms
-Suspension custom bolts and plates (replace eccentric bolt system)
-Adjustable pillow ball top mounts (custom made to suit Ohlins)
-Custom Spring caps to suit Ohlins
-Bespoke CLR diet: conservative 150kg+ weight delta (1000's hours)
-Titanium wheel bolts
-TUV approval (No value in the UK but an extremely expensive process and makes the car sellable on the continent)
Probably a few other things but this is just off the top of my head
Rosewood Red said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What value would one place on a 3.6l 996.2 / 997.1 with Hartech rebuild / oversized 3.9 motor? And the same for a 996.1 with a 3.4l > 3.7l conversion.Yes it is.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/223592867344
So much work went into the creation of this car. It's propery developed. It's what the 996RS should have been if the GT3 range was not launched which took the 911 in a far more brutal direction. It will be a great buy for anyone looking for the ultimate tactile and engaging road car. You could argue that a GT3 could also be created. No engine, gearbox work would be required but the cost of body panels and dampers would be substantial pushing the build probably north of £20k and devaluing the car by as much because beardy man wouldnt buy it. Cheaper to buy this car.
This will be as engaing as my 964 and dynamically far superior for probably less money. Depends on what you want from a car but if you open your mind a little, this car is a real gem.
This will be as engaing as my 964 and dynamically far superior for probably less money. Depends on what you want from a car but if you open your mind a little, this car is a real gem.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
When I checked recently, there were around seven (mainly 997s) with Hartech 'rebuilds' (which in reality could mean anything from top-end work, to the full belt and braces deal) on AT, some around the 16k - 18k mark. Six of these were tiptronics.A friend upgraded from a 3.2 987.1 and ended up with a 3.6 997.1. Slightly leggy at 137k, but well looked after. It was in for some minor fettling with my specialist, and is in good nick, with no sign of bore scoring or anything else of concern.
This car is really a stopgap for him as he got it cheap - he's after a 981. If he moves it along, I have first refusal and could get it for circa £14k, but even at that price, at those miles, the bork factor is always going to be in the back of my head. That and the fact that I am happy with where my 986 S currently is.
If I had a slush fund of £10k saved up, I'd be like WTH. Perhaps I should start adding to the piggybank. But if I had to do a rebuild, I'd really want to go oversized too, which makes it more like £15k. Go big or go home, eh?
Unless a manual car with an oversized engine comes up for circa £20k...
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
For me the trouble I face is the interpretation of The CLR. A few such examples above have been used to describe the car here and elsewhere: Replica, modified, tuned, project... My question is does a Singer or RUF also fall into these categories? For me no. So where is the border of where one is a project/modified and another a Singer or RUF.
Maybe I'm missing something but it comes across like it's a personal project car that you've given a name to. It's obviously done to a high standard and at great expense.
Does it handle better than the Boxster Spyder next to it?
Escy said:
Maybe I'm missing something but it comes across like it's a personal project car that you've given a name to.
It's obviously done to a high standard and at great expense.
Does it handle better than the Boxster Spyder next to it?
You are indeed correct, it did start out as a personal project car and that was always the intention at the start. It did however escalate into something else. The money I spent let alone the 1000's of hours saw me looking towards a potential future business off the back of it. It's obviously done to a high standard and at great expense.
Does it handle better than the Boxster Spyder next to it?
You do realise how Rob Dickenson started out right!
I'm still very much involved with my day job (in Aviation) so never took the CLR idea to the marketing stage. I have registered the business in Germany and have TUV approval and file tax accounts... I just don't sell anything at present or work on other cars, so all the costs I generate are kind of like R&D for a business start-up.
Comparing to the Spyder is pointless as it really is a completely different kettle of fish. What I will say is the 987 Spyder is the most special Porsche to have been produced in the last 20 years besides the CGT IMHO (other opinions are available). It is the lightest car they have made in the last 24years. It was probably the last time that the Engineers were allowed a say in proceedings as it has so many unique design features and is seriously focused. All cars after this point were rather modular in design across the various platforms.
The CLR is more akin to cars of a bygone era. The base early 996 is already regarded by many as a wonderful point in the 911 evolution due to its inherent lack of nannying interference by modern tech. What I decided was the early 996 C2 was the perfect starting point, anything later and you get E-gas, PASM, EPAS, weight and a whole host of other digital layers diluting the mechanic interaction and anything earlier and reliability and archaic technology shows its limitations. So using this platform I wanted to make the car as feelsome and engaging as any of the 911's before or since. In order to bring back old school tactility, sound and dynamics, I concentrated on weight reduction and chassis dynamics with the Inconel exhaust chosen as the ultimate option to improve aural harmonics. Don't get me wrong I'll be the first to admit I got completely carried away. The thing is, I looked at the likes of Singer for inspiration and saw the Dickenson interview with Harris, where he simple states he used the best that was available for every aspect of the car. I took a similar approach but focused solely on the driving dynamics rather than looking at quilted leather and all the other finesse that Singer do in a holistic fashion (Pre-DLS).
End result is completely unique driving characteristics from a Water-cooled generation car, which is fully capable of setting your pants on fire, even at relatively pedestrian speeds. The sound, the interaction and involvement at all times are things all but gone from most modern cars; as pointed out earlier in this thread, it is now just a monotonous grey speed war. It is hardly fair for me to make this observation though due to natural bias. I do however try to be as objective as possible and currently have an S1 Elise and the Spyder to draw comparison to. Most consider the Elise to be the car upon which others should be judged from a handling and compliance perspective. I can't argue, it is a truly sublime involving car and great to have as a benchmark to judge the CLR. For that reason I feel I am fairly well qualified to pass judgement on the CLR. I hope that clarifies the something you may have been missing and apologies for going on a bit here
Edited by CarreraLightweightRacing on Tuesday 15th October 15:37
Steve Rance said:
So much work went into the creation of this car. It's propery developed. It's what the 996RS should have been if the GT3 range was not launched which took the 911 in a far more brutal direction. It will be a great buy for anyone looking for the ultimate tactile and engaging road car. You could argue that a GT3 could also be created. No engine, gearbox work would be required but the cost of body panels and dampers would be substantial pushing the build probably north of £20k and devaluing the car by as much because beardy man wouldnt buy it. Cheaper to buy this car.
This will be as engaing as my 964 and dynamically far superior for probably less money. Depends on what you want from a car but if you open your mind a little, this car is a real gem.
Thanks Steve, coming form you this means a great deal This will be as engaing as my 964 and dynamically far superior for probably less money. Depends on what you want from a car but if you open your mind a little, this car is a real gem.
I think just a carbon roof and Inconel exhaust would chew up most of that £20k though. For full carbon panels including roof, Ohlins and the exhaust you wont be seeing much change out of 40 big ones with all the labour involved. Would love to do similar with a GT3 but there is some very special prototype work going on behind the scenes to develop an ITB'd 8000rpm, 400bhp M96 monster
which I'd much prefer to the Mezger. anonymous said:
[redacted]
I did a little digging and have a list at work of all the differences over the S. It is quite substantial, off the top of my head: carbon roof, alu doors and bonnet, LSD, suspension, engine power, inner doors, windows, engine cover, interior, front bumper, PCCB's, Spyder wheels, LWB's. I have a list of around 30 changes but these are some of the main items. Before buying like you I thought the looks were very special but I found it hard to justify 4x the price for what I assumed was just a double humped engine cover.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Blinkered; try driving one Or ask Walter Röhrl why he has one amongst his collection of otherwise unobtanium. Very rewarding special cars. I did also mention there are other opinions. What other cars do you consider Porsche put more effort in to convert over the base it derived from: 911R (Mag roof/houndstooth/LWFW), 997SC (roof/wheel/paint), 997RS4.0 (canards/decals/engine displacement) would be other examples I can think of.CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Blinkered; try driving one Or ask Walter Röhrl why he has one amongst his collection of otherwise unobtanium. Very rewarding special cars. I did also mention there are other opinions. What other cars do you consider Porsche put more effort in to convert over the base it derived from: 911R (Mag roof/houndstooth/LWFW), 997SC (roof/wheel/paint), 997RS4.0 (canards/decals/engine displacement) would be other examples I can think of.
Your claim was that 'the 987 spyder was the most special car produced' outright by Porsche and not just how much extra a car offered over the base it derived from. And even taking the latter definition, any gt3 imo has had far more effort put in than the spyder given the gt3 base would be a standard 911..... Or ask Walter Röhrl why he has one amongst his collection of otherwise unobtanium. Very rewarding special cars. I did also mention there are other opinions. What other cars do you consider Porsche put more effort in to convert over the base it derived from: 911R (Mag roof/houndstooth/LWFW), 997SC (roof/wheel/paint), 997RS4.0 (canards/decals/engine displacement) would be other examples I can think of.Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock the 987 but you are making a claim that is somewhat hard to square relative to the rest of the range.
Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 15th October 19:05
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