MK1 996GT3 Purchase

[andylaight]

I've read the archive but advice, information sought please.
I'm looking at/for the above with 50-60K miles on the clock.
Other that routine servicing what other works should have been carried out by that mileage/age?
Who would be recommended for an inspection in south?
Car would be used for Europe trips, uk track days so considering lhd, any negatives to lhd in your opinions?
Finally anyone know of cars that are not being openly marketed that are or are coming up for sale?
thanks in advance

[Porsche911R]

andylaight said:

I've read the archive but advice, information sought please.
I'm looking at/for the above with 50-60K miles on the clock.
Other that routine servicing what other works should have been carried out by that mileage/age?

At 20 years old and 60k miles, just about every part you can think of which wears out or moves. Plus a loads of parts which don’t move.
The list is endless, one would expect a history file of sorts.

[Slippydiff]

It’s not quite as dire as our learned friend is making out, but there are a lot of components that will almost certainly be past their sell by date.

Dampers are good for 20-25k mikes and then need refreshing to return them to optimal condition.
At 20 years/60k miles there’s a good chance the damper bodies, spring seats and their locking collars will be badly corroded.

Front and rear strut top mount bearing may be rattling away merrily.

Anti-roll bar drop links may join the above chorus ...

PAS pipes at the front of the car may be corroded. There is a cheap fix.

Underbody steel brake pipes may be corroded.

Front and rear springs corrode badly.

All suspension arms and their bushes will need careful inspection, likewise their ball joints.

Brake discs can corrode very heavily on their inner faces, whilst the outer faces look perfect.

Exhaust boxes corrode and fail on their seams.

ALL exhaust clamps/bolts/ nuts are cheap and corrode heavily.

Limited slip diff will most likely be ineffectual.

Radiators and air conditioning condensers rot due to debris, then subsequently fail.

Gearbox mount rubber bonding fails.

Coolant header tanks split.

Gearbox synchro hubs will be sub-optimal if they’ve been abused, many have ...

Clutch will possibly be heavy due to wear and failure/lack of lubrication of the clutch cross shaft bearings.

Gearshift may be sloppy due to abuse/wear in the shift mechanism.

Cam chains and followers may rattle like a bh when started from cold. This should disappear smartly, but it’s not a nice sound ...

Theories cables fray, and many aren’t adjusted correctly, meaning you won’t get 100% throttle.

Check carefully for previous crash damage/repairs.

Have a leak down test carried out on the engine.

Check air conditioning blows colder than an Artic tundra.

Check battery condition, they don’t like been not used/left without a conditioner.

Check engine poly belt condition.

Bonnet struts become weak and can hurt your head...

Apart from that lot, they’re pretty much bullet proof !!

Best advice is to get it checked out by someone who knows the cars inside out. There are plenty of specialists who’ll do you a proper inspection, depending on your location, others will advise.

[andylaight]

thanks, located in Hertfordshire or Somerset

[LaSource]

Slippydiff said:

It’s not quite as dire as our learned friend is making out, but there are a lot of components that will almost certainly be past their sell by date.

Dampers are good for 20-25k mikes and then need refreshing to return them to optimal condition.
At 20 years/60k miles there’s a good chance the damper bodies, spring seats and their locking collars will be badly corroded.

Front and rear strut top mount bearing may be rattling away merrily.

Anti-roll bar drop links may join the above chorus ...

PAS pipes at the front of the car may be corroded. There is a cheap fix.

Underbody steel brake pipes may be corroded.

Front and rear springs corrode badly.

All suspension arms and their bushes will need careful inspection, likewise their ball joints.

Brake discs can corrode very heavily on their inner faces, whilst the outer faces look perfect.

Exhaust boxes corrode and fail on their seams.

ALL exhaust clamps/bolts/ nuts are cheap and corrode heavily.

Limited slip diff will most likely be ineffectual.

Radiators and air conditioning condensers rot due to debris, then subsequently fail.

Gearbox mount rubber bonding fails.

Coolant header tanks split.

Gearbox synchro hubs will be sub-optimal if they’ve been abused, many have ...

Clutch will possibly be heavy due to wear and failure/lack of lubrication of the clutch cross shaft bearings.

Gearshift may be sloppy due to abuse/wear in the shift mechanism.

Cam chains and followers may rattle like a bh when started from cold. This should disappear smartly, but it’s not a nice sound ...

Theories cables fray, and many aren’t adjusted correctly, meaning you won’t get 100% throttle.

Check carefully for previous crash damage/repairs.

Have a leak down test carried out on the engine.

Check air conditioning blows colder than an Artic tundra.

Check battery condition, they don’t like been not used/left without a conditioner.

Check engine poly belt condition.

Bonnet struts become weak and can hurt your head...

Apart from that lot, they’re pretty much bullet proof !!

Best advice is to get it checked out by someone who knows the cars inside out. There are plenty of specialists who’ll do you a proper inspection, depending on your location, others will advise.

Lol. Think I preferred the post before yours

You are both right. However I expect any car with decent maintenance history (which in my experience tends to be most of them) will have addressed many of those over the 20 years and 60k miles.
There might be some surprises which a decent inspection with unearth.

[Porsche911R]

Was a funny post by slippy.

But confirms what I wrote to a tee.

I would add in starter motor to his VERY long list.

[JulierPass]

Slippy's list is probably the most comprehensive I have seen. Should make it a sticky. That siad, I agree with LaSource. on a car with 60K miles and a proper service history most things should have been addressed over time. To be safe I'd print off Slippy's list and ask that those issues be checked as part of the PDI. I'd ask Parr in gatwick to do the inspection. They know more about GT3's than any other indy having had the contract with Porsche to run their cup cars. Good luck, they are great cars

[Heathrow]

Wow if I read Slippy's post a couple of years ago i don't think I would have bought my 996 GT3 for fear of the unknown!

One thing i would add is that the cars did not have underseal from factory, so corrosion could be an issue depending on how they have been used.

I would buy from any of the recognised specialists for peace of mind.

I was at RPM Technik just today picking my car up from service. They have a speed yellow 996.1 GT3 for sale (comfort but with buckets) and it looks absolutely mint for the mileage. Well worth a look.

There is also a nice guards red car at JZM but it's SA supplied I think rather than C16.

Both Herts based if that helps.

[Slippydiff]

LaSource said:

Lol. Think I preferred the post before yours

You are both right. However I expect any car with decent maintenance history (which in my experience tends to be most of them) will have addressed many of those over the 20 years and 60k miles.
There might be some surprises which a decent inspection with unearth.

He was preaching this stuff many years ago, ie when the cars were 12/13 years old.
In an ideal world every nut, bolt, bush, balljoint would be as fresh it was the day it rolled off the production line in ‘99/2000, but in reality many components if not abused will do 50K miles without requiring replacement.

But the way these cars have been used over the past 5 year has changed, the previously heavily tracked cars are rarely used in this manner now, instead they appear to be left standing for long periods without use, and that means bushes, hoses cables and linkages all slowly perish or seize up, exhaust boxes gently rot, and brake discs, springs and damper bodies regrettably tend rob do the same in sympathy.

But I agree with what a couple of you have said, a frequently and well maintained will have had pretty much all the components I’ve listed replaced at some point over the last 20 years/60K miles.
So the chance of being landed with our learned friend’s mythical £15K refurbishment bill all in one hit is highly unlikely.

But I wasn’t suggesting that all the issues I’ve catalogued would afflict any one car, it’s merely a checklist of the more common issues that have afflicted these fantastic cars over their lives.



Agree on Parr’s for an inspection, not the cheapest, but very professional.

[Slippydiff]

Heathrow said:

Wow if I read Slippy's post a couple of years ago i don't think I would have bought my 996 GT3 for fear of the unknown!

One thing i would add is that the cars did not have underseal from factory, so corrosion could be an issue depending on how they have been used.

I would buy from any of the recognised specialists for peace of mind.

I was at RPM Technik just today picking my car up from service. They have a speed yellow 996.1 GT3 for sale (comfort but with buckets) and it looks absolutely mint for the mileage. Well worth a look.

There is also a nice guards red car at JZM but it's SA supplied I think rather than C16.

Both Herts based if that helps.

The RPMT car that’s up for sale is one of my old cars ...
As for being put off buying if you’d seen my list prior to buying a car. If you had a good inspection done, all of the items would have been checked by a competent individual who’s familiar with the cars.
But as I said, it’s a checklist of the issues that can and have afflicted these wonderful cars.

[8-P]

You need to speak to ditchvisitor on here, I’ll message him.

[Heathrow]

I was only pulling your leg! I probably have more of a "roll the dice" mentality. If stuff needs replacing, it's a good excuse to upgrade the parts if possible! Especially with a car at 50k+ miles on it.

Just had a quick look at the cars for sale. Not many for sale and prices seem to be all over the shop.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I notice there is a very up to date mk2 for sale at the moment, ideally you want the socks and slipper owner who reads every Internet thread and replaces every moving part to get his investment perfect (while doing two track days a year at ridiculously slow pace)

[Slippydiff]

Heathrow said:

I was only pulling your leg! I probably have more of a "roll the dice" mentality. If stuff needs replacing, it's a good excuse to upgrade the parts if possible! Especially with a car at 50k+ miles on it.

Just had a quick look at the cars for sale. Not many for sale and prices seem to be all over the shop.

I know
But it needed clarify before our learned friend started crowing ...

[ChrisW.]

There are quite a few differences between the early cars and the later ones ...

The first had bronze synchro's most of which have been replaced if worked hard, the later cars had steel synchro's.

The first had manual mirrors ... the later cars had electrically controlled mirrors like the Gen2 cars ...

What have I missed ?

I can confirm that even on the best cars underbody corrosion can be a issue ... by one route and another almost the whole underside of my CS has ended up being renewed and the small amount of rust removed and the underside returned to Porsche original spec ... let's just say I will not be taking it out in the salt !!

Agreed on the list of possible consumable issues ... were the clips on the pipes to the radiators the press-fit ones that sometimes failed ? A lot of the items mentioned can be replaced with good condition items from non GT3 / Turbo cars broken due to engine failure ...

I reckoned when I bought my first one that it cost me £5k to get it sorted ... but it was then a lovely car in Zanzibar Red !

[Slippydiff]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I notice there is a very up to date mk2 for sale at the moment, ideally you want the socks and slipper owner who reads every Internet thread and replaces every moving part to get his investment perfect (while doing two track days a year at ridiculously slow pace)

Evening Craig
There are still some gems out there.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

What was it Thomas used to say [cliche redacted!] again? I think there are plenty of good cars out there as you say but I may be in the minority in that I'd see one of the more modified examples as being something that has been "trigger's broom'd" into good shape.

Prices all o'er the place as well, seen that 996RS at £99k?

[Slippydiff]

My old Speed Yellow car (subsequently Jackals) at RPMT is an absolute peach.
Another one I shouldn’t have let go of

It’s about time 996 RS prices started to align more sensibly with the other 996 GT3’s.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Forgive my memory, who was it that had the underside of his SYmk1 rebuilt due to corrosion again? We met at Oulton back in the day and lost touch with each other after I moved away from the scene somewhat.

[ChrisW.]

Although if any car was to become highly prized (in addition to the 996 GT3 MkI CS --- merciless plug !) ... I would have guessed that it would have been the RS ...

A sign of the times ?