Taycan Charging Costs IONITY
Discussion
IONITY, the joint venture of BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company, Hyundai Motor Group and the Volkswagen Group with Porsche AG is changing the cost of charging electric vehicles from a flat rate of €8 to €0.79 per Kw/Hr so €79 to fully charge a Taycan Turbo from empty.
https://twitter.com/Edison_Media/status/1217839221...
https://twitter.com/Edison_Media/status/1217839221...
Surely they must have those figures wrong? Tesla charge around £ 0.24 per kWh on their network ,which i believe is tier 1 , tier 2 is double the cost which is the faster charger? I think to fully charge a Tesla its around £20?
Pod Point rapid chargers cost 23p/kWh , which is about £6-7 for 30 minutes of charging , which is over half the price on Ionity?
79 euros to fully charge a Taycan , wheres the saving as would only cost around £80 for a tank of fuel?
Pod Point rapid chargers cost 23p/kWh , which is about £6-7 for 30 minutes of charging , which is over half the price on Ionity?
79 euros to fully charge a Taycan , wheres the saving as would only cost around £80 for a tank of fuel?
Edited by tedblog on Saturday 25th January 08:23
gtsralph said:
IONITY, the joint venture of BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company, Hyundai Motor Group and the Volkswagen Group with Porsche AG is changing the cost of charging electric vehicles from a flat rate of €8 to €0.79 per Kw/Hr so €79 to fully charge a Taycan Turbo from empty.
https://twitter.com/Edison_Media/status/1217839221...
Far worse to be on empty and 5th in the queue to fill up lol https://twitter.com/Edison_Media/status/1217839221...
At my local place the charging spaces are full of normal cars who pinch the spaces for normal parking.
A lot needs to change before this goes mainstream.
I keep looking at the electric mini for the oh and buying it via my business. But I think she would rather a JCW again ....
Saving pa would be low at £700 so a bit crap and ltd range.
Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 25th January 09:37
rbh said:
Pretty bad news for evYes the Ioncity rates have gone up to the point where it’s no cheaper £/mile than an efficient ICE car. I guess it’s a business decision but it hardly encourages people to take up EV.
Harry’s garage review was pretty interesting. EV are great A to A cars with the current charging infrastructure and unless you have a Tesla for A to B
Harry’s garage review was pretty interesting. EV are great A to A cars with the current charging infrastructure and unless you have a Tesla for A to B
TonyG2003 said:
Yes the Ioncity rates have gone up to the point where it’s no cheaper £/mile than an efficient ICE car. I guess it’s a business decision but it hardly encourages people to take up EV.
It wouldn't put us off (we can easily charge at home and the odd expensive charge would be tolerable if its easier to get on to the charger) but is a cause for concern if it hits residuals.Like I said, it's to price out Tesla drivers from using it. They want just merc, vw, bmw etc drivers using them
"Mercedes me Charge, for example, has already announced that it will charge €0.29/kWh at IONITY chargers, with no annual subscription fee for the first year. Audi e-tron Charging Service will cost €0.33/kWh plus a monthly subscription of €17.95, while Porsche Charging Service will cost €0.33/kWh plus a basic annual fee of €179. BMW ChargeNow and Volkswagen WeCharge have not yet announced their tariffs.
As a comparison, Tesla charges an average of €0.24/kWh in France, €0.33/kWh in Germany, €0.28/kWh in Belgium, €0.25/kWh in the Netherlands and €0.30 in Italy."
"Mercedes me Charge, for example, has already announced that it will charge €0.29/kWh at IONITY chargers, with no annual subscription fee for the first year. Audi e-tron Charging Service will cost €0.33/kWh plus a monthly subscription of €17.95, while Porsche Charging Service will cost €0.33/kWh plus a basic annual fee of €179. BMW ChargeNow and Volkswagen WeCharge have not yet announced their tariffs.
As a comparison, Tesla charges an average of €0.24/kWh in France, €0.33/kWh in Germany, €0.28/kWh in Belgium, €0.25/kWh in the Netherlands and €0.30 in Italy."
gtsralph said:
Not a great sales pitch is it. LooneyTunes said:
TonyG2003 said:
Yes the Ioncity rates have gone up to the point where it’s no cheaper £/mile than an efficient ICE car. I guess it’s a business decision but it hardly encourages people to take up EV.
It wouldn't put us off (we can easily charge at home and the odd expensive charge would be tolerable if its easier to get on to the charger) but is a cause for concern if it hits residuals.Excuse my ignorance I’ve had no real interest in EVs so far. I could google it but hopefully someone in the know will enlighten me.
Are you telling me there is going to be no internationally agreed standard for EV charging. So it’s going to end up a bit like phones. Different cables for different brands and worse still. You can only use certain manufactures cars at certain brands of charging station.
Almost like you can only fill a bmw up at shell but not bp and a Merc at a bp but not shell.
Or is it a case of yes you can but it will be cheaper for certain car manufacturers to charge at certain (affiliated) charging stations.
If so they really are shooting themselves in the foot and I’m surprised there going to be allowed to go down this route.
Someone mentioned a subscription to use a charging station. Jesus Christ what a mess. I will stay with my ICE car thanks and fill up where I like.
Are you telling me there is going to be no internationally agreed standard for EV charging. So it’s going to end up a bit like phones. Different cables for different brands and worse still. You can only use certain manufactures cars at certain brands of charging station.
Almost like you can only fill a bmw up at shell but not bp and a Merc at a bp but not shell.
Or is it a case of yes you can but it will be cheaper for certain car manufacturers to charge at certain (affiliated) charging stations.
If so they really are shooting themselves in the foot and I’m surprised there going to be allowed to go down this route.
Someone mentioned a subscription to use a charging station. Jesus Christ what a mess. I will stay with my ICE car thanks and fill up where I like.
MB140 said:
Excuse my ignorance I’ve had no real interest in EVs so far. I could google it but hopefully someone in the know will enlighten me.
Are you telling me there is going to be no internationally agreed standard for EV charging. So it’s going to end up a bit like phones. Different cables for different brands and worse still. You can only use certain manufactures cars at certain brands of charging station.
Almost like you can only fill a bmw up at shell but not bp and a Merc at a bp but not shell.
Or is it a case of yes you can but it will be cheaper for certain car manufacturers to charge at certain (affiliated) charging stations.
If so they really are shooting themselves in the foot and I’m surprised there going to be allowed to go down this route.
Someone mentioned a subscription to use a charging station. Jesus Christ what a mess. I will stay with my ICE car thanks and fill up where I like.
Kinda. There are some standards for plugs and charging (although not ubiquitous and Tesla have gone their own way - although you get a cable with a Tesla that lets you use the Type 2 standard). The issue is that there's no simple way to pay for charging. There are dozens of different operators, and each of them wants you to sign up for a subscription; this then works with an app or (more commonly) an RFID card that you use to activate the charger. A few let you do a kind of pay-as-you-go: Duferco Energia in Italy, for example, let you pay using their app and PayPal, without a regular sub. But a) the app doesn't always talk to the charger successfully - so it won't unlock and b) you pay for time in that model, not kWh - so I pay 5€ for two hours at 3.2kW charging our Volvo PHEV; the Tesla next to us gets 22kW for the same money. A goodly number of chargers are also faulty at any given time.Are you telling me there is going to be no internationally agreed standard for EV charging. So it’s going to end up a bit like phones. Different cables for different brands and worse still. You can only use certain manufactures cars at certain brands of charging station.
Almost like you can only fill a bmw up at shell but not bp and a Merc at a bp but not shell.
Or is it a case of yes you can but it will be cheaper for certain car manufacturers to charge at certain (affiliated) charging stations.
If so they really are shooting themselves in the foot and I’m surprised there going to be allowed to go down this route.
Someone mentioned a subscription to use a charging station. Jesus Christ what a mess. I will stay with my ICE car thanks and fill up where I like.
Only Tesla is even vaguely usable for proper motoring. For commuting most people charge at home or at work - we have an i3 which has never used a public charger, for instance - but road trips in (non-Tesla) EVs become exercises in risk-mitigation - will I find a charger, will it be working, do I have the right subscription and card, will I be able to sign up for the app and pay straight away etc.
It's why Tesla is so dominant - they took the risk on capital investment to roll out the Supercharger network ahead of demand. Everywhere else (except perhaps Holland and some of the Nordics) it's a hopeless patchwork of inept nonsense, bound to a subscription model because the demand's just not there to make it commercially viable.
Apart from the classics, all our cars are "alternative fuel" vehicles (i3, i8, XC90 T8), but we've stuck with PHEVs for everything outside city use. I was on the list for the Taycan, but didn't take the car when the range turned out to be so disappointing and the Ionity network so far from ready.
The depressing thing is that EU governments are basically ignoring this problem, but at the same time making it ever harder to drive regular ICE cars - see recent stuff from the City of London, Paris, Birmingham, Oxford and (IIRC) York . In theory (it's not very well enforced) I can't use either of my 964s to drive to Paris, for instance, and shortly they're likely to extend that to more recent cars (and possibly all diesels). I bought an i8 instead of e.g. a 992 precisely because I wanted some certainty that I'd get 5 years transcontinental use out of it. I think we'll see complete ICE bans in more and more European cities, long before there's any real cohesion to the charging network.
Hilariously, my 356 (no cat, race motor etc) is exempt from both the Paris ban and the ULEZ because it's historic. So the answer is either PHEVs and EVs, or really old cars, apparently.
964Cup said:
Kinda. There are some standards for plugs and charging (although not ubiquitous and Tesla have gone their own way - although you get a cable with a Tesla that lets you use the Type 2 standard). The issue is that there's no simple way to pay for charging. There are dozens of different operators, and each of them wants you to sign up for a subscription; this then works with an app or (more commonly) an RFID card that you use to activate the charger. A few let you do a kind of pay-as-you-go: Duferco Energia in Italy, for example, let you pay using their app and PayPal, without a regular sub. But a) the app doesn't always talk to the charger successfully - so it won't unlock and b) you pay for time in that model, not kWh - so I pay 5€ for two hours at 3.2kW charging our Volvo PHEV; the Tesla next to us gets 22kW for the same money. A goodly number of chargers are also faulty at any given time.
Only Tesla is even vaguely usable for proper motoring. For commuting most people charge at home or at work - we have an i3 which has never used a public charger, for instance - but road trips in (non-Tesla) EVs become exercises in risk-mitigation - will I find a charger, will it be working, do I have the right subscription and card, will I be able to sign up for the app and pay straight away etc.
It's why Tesla is so dominant - they took the risk on capital investment to roll out the Supercharger network ahead of demand. Everywhere else (except perhaps Holland and some of the Nordics) it's a hopeless patchwork of inept nonsense, bound to a subscription model because the demand's just not there to make it commercially viable.
Apart from the classics, all our cars are "alternative fuel" vehicles (i3, i8, XC90 T8), but we've stuck with PHEVs for everything outside city use. I was on the list for the Taycan, but didn't take the car when the range turned out to be so disappointing and the Ionity network so far from ready.
The depressing thing is that EU governments are basically ignoring this problem, but at the same time making it ever harder to drive regular ICE cars - see recent stuff from the City of London, Paris, Birmingham, Oxford and (IIRC) York . In theory (it's not very well enforced) I can't use either of my 964s to drive to Paris, for instance, and shortly they're likely to extend that to more recent cars (and possibly all diesels). I bought an i8 instead of e.g. a 992 precisely because I wanted some certainty that I'd get 5 years transcontinental use out of it. I think we'll see complete ICE bans in more and more European cities, long before there's any real cohesion to the charging network.
Hilariously, my 356 (no cat, race motor etc) is exempt from both the Paris ban and the ULEZ because it's historic. So the answer is either PHEVs and EVs, or really old cars, apparently.
Thanks for taking the time 964cup. What a bloody mess. I can’t believe the relevant authorities (who are trying to drive us all to use EV) have allowed this shower of sOnly Tesla is even vaguely usable for proper motoring. For commuting most people charge at home or at work - we have an i3 which has never used a public charger, for instance - but road trips in (non-Tesla) EVs become exercises in risk-mitigation - will I find a charger, will it be working, do I have the right subscription and card, will I be able to sign up for the app and pay straight away etc.
It's why Tesla is so dominant - they took the risk on capital investment to roll out the Supercharger network ahead of demand. Everywhere else (except perhaps Holland and some of the Nordics) it's a hopeless patchwork of inept nonsense, bound to a subscription model because the demand's just not there to make it commercially viable.
Apart from the classics, all our cars are "alternative fuel" vehicles (i3, i8, XC90 T8), but we've stuck with PHEVs for everything outside city use. I was on the list for the Taycan, but didn't take the car when the range turned out to be so disappointing and the Ionity network so far from ready.
The depressing thing is that EU governments are basically ignoring this problem, but at the same time making it ever harder to drive regular ICE cars - see recent stuff from the City of London, Paris, Birmingham, Oxford and (IIRC) York . In theory (it's not very well enforced) I can't use either of my 964s to drive to Paris, for instance, and shortly they're likely to extend that to more recent cars (and possibly all diesels). I bought an i8 instead of e.g. a 992 precisely because I wanted some certainty that I'd get 5 years transcontinental use out of it. I think we'll see complete ICE bans in more and more European cities, long before there's any real cohesion to the charging network.
Hilariously, my 356 (no cat, race motor etc) is exempt from both the Paris ban and the ULEZ because it's historic. So the answer is either PHEVs and EVs, or really old cars, apparently.
t to develope. Mandate a set cable. Mandate all people must pay the same price (or within a fixed band to allow some sort of competition) mandate no single manufacture or manufacture bias. Problem solved. Once it’s mandatory they have no option but to comply. Better for the general using public, better for the planet etc.
SV_WDC said:
LooneyTunes said:
TonyG2003 said:
Yes the Ioncity rates have gone up to the point where it’s no cheaper £/mile than an efficient ICE car. I guess it’s a business decision but it hardly encourages people to take up EV.
It wouldn't put us off (we can easily charge at home and the odd expensive charge would be tolerable if its easier to get on to the charger) but is a cause for concern if it hits residuals.It is good that they have exempted historic taxation class cars such as the 356 from ULEZ charges. The number of 40+ year old historic cars still on the road is tiny but they contribute to our cultural heritage.
Regarding EV charging the days of cheap charging are limited. Someone has to pay for the infrastructure and they will charge rates for charging the public will tolerate and that means petrol equivalent prices. It is a bit like the big take up of diesel where it was subsidised to undercut petrol significantly until everyone had diesel cars and then the price went up.
Regarding EV charging the days of cheap charging are limited. Someone has to pay for the infrastructure and they will charge rates for charging the public will tolerate and that means petrol equivalent prices. It is a bit like the big take up of diesel where it was subsidised to undercut petrol significantly until everyone had diesel cars and then the price went up.
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