Buying Porsche 997 advice
Discussion
As standard it would have had the larger bearing, which has a very, very low chance of failing. You could call that an 'upgrade', but it was a factory fitment when the car was new 
If you visit the RPM technik site (https://rpmtechnik.co.uk) and look at their fixed price servicing options, you'll see which cars they offer an IMS bearing upgrade for, and which ones they don't. The 997.1 is not one of the cars that they upgrade, due to the complexity of the job.
If you visit the RPM technik site (https://rpmtechnik.co.uk) and look at their fixed price servicing options, you'll see which cars they offer an IMS bearing upgrade for, and which ones they don't. The 997.1 is not one of the cars that they upgrade, due to the complexity of the job.
Magnum 475 said:
Hmmm. I smell a rat here.
The M97 engine that would be fitted to this car has the later, 'large' IMS bearing. You can't just replace this bearing the way you can with the earlier 'small' bearing in the 996.2. To replace the IMS in an M97 engine requires the engine to be fully opened up, rather than just removing the flywheel and swapping the bearing out. There are some '05 cars with the 'small' bearing - 3.2 Boxsters. I've never heard of the small bearing being fitted to a 3.8 997 though.
I think the small ims bearing was fitted to 997.1 cars up until ‘06. However it it’s been borescoped and well looked after I would still only put the car at about £19000. The 3.6 variant are meant to be the better option by the way.The M97 engine that would be fitted to this car has the later, 'large' IMS bearing. You can't just replace this bearing the way you can with the earlier 'small' bearing in the 996.2. To replace the IMS in an M97 engine requires the engine to be fully opened up, rather than just removing the flywheel and swapping the bearing out. There are some '05 cars with the 'small' bearing - 3.2 Boxsters. I've never heard of the small bearing being fitted to a 3.8 997 though.
gollum2018 said:
Marley71 said:
I bought mine (997.1) at 54k and shortly after, rear suspension bushes and coffin arms needed replaced. Also alternator wire loom went too.. Porsche said this is well known to happen..
Apart from that it's been fantastic. I think that's a really good price. Bore scoring thing is dependant on who you wish to listen too.
It came up clear from a bore scope test and it has had a updated IMS fitted via porsche dealer with invoices to prove. I would imagine that it has been pampered as not one not advisory since new and one owner for last 10 years who PX it for a classic car.Apart from that it's been fantastic. I think that's a really good price. Bore scoring thing is dependant on who you wish to listen too.
gollum2018 said:
My other idea is to get this Boxter 3.2s for 4k and rag it around for a bit. I have viewed this and it is in immaculate condition with new updated roof with glass rear screen and it unmarked inside and out. All mot advisorys on this were done before next mot aswell so well carefored motor.
Looks good that. Get it bought. Are you dead set on a 911....There's only two of you..
If it was me spending circa £23k I'd be looking at a Gen 2 987 Cayman S as an entry point into Porsche again.
I like the look of this...New clutch etc.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...
Or a Gen 2 Boxster 2.9 with a good bit of ££ change left over.
If it was me spending circa £23k I'd be looking at a Gen 2 987 Cayman S as an entry point into Porsche again.
I like the look of this...New clutch etc.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...
Or a Gen 2 Boxster 2.9 with a good bit of ££ change left over.
Edited by Andyoz on Friday 21st February 19:32
p4cks said:
deebs said:
p4cks said:
Honestly avoid a 996.1, 996.2 and the 997.1 like the plague (f
king awful things) and just get whichever 997.2 your budget allows
Why the 996.1? king awful things) and just get whichever 997.2 your budget allows STiG911 said:
gollum2018 said:
Marley71 said:
I bought mine (997.1) at 54k and shortly after, rear suspension bushes and coffin arms needed replaced. Also alternator wire loom went too.. Porsche said this is well known to happen..
Apart from that it's been fantastic. I think that's a really good price. Bore scoring thing is dependant on who you wish to listen too.
It came up clear from a bore scope test and it has had a updated IMS fitted via porsche dealer with invoices to prove. I would imagine that it has been pampered as not one not advisory since new and one owner for last 10 years who PX it for a classic car.Apart from that it's been fantastic. I think that's a really good price. Bore scoring thing is dependant on who you wish to listen too.
The earlier 996 from 97, 98 and possibly 99 are supposed to be less risky engine wise. It's something to do with the coating on the pistons being better at preventing bore scoring. These were changed mid way through the 3.4 engine production so the later 3.4 cars have a different piston coating.
So if you really want a 911 and dont want to go gen 2 but have concerns about engine weaknesses then go for one of those. You can get them starting at 10 grand now so 15 should see you get a realliy good one. There are not many around if you look so you can't be too picky.
I've had mine now for nearly 3 years and I love it. Mine is 22 years old and has seen some action. It's no garage queen and lives outside. I use it for short trips daily, so starting from cold and not really getting up to temp and in all weathers too although I'd draw the line at snow - if it comes. I just treat it like anyone else would treat their car.
I know it might die at some point but I'm just enjoying it while I can and I hope it doesn't. If you buy one for 10 and it implodes then you might lose a few grand. If you buy a 997 for nearer to 20 will you have twice the car - only you can answer that.
A 986 boxster is pretty much the same car as a 996 but with just different weight distribution and the soft top which adds roof down appeal if that appeals to you. The soft top takes away a lot of the body's stiffness. As you can see a good boxster starts at 4 grand so if that implodes you've lost a lot less. They're are loads to choose from too.
So if you really want a 911 and dont want to go gen 2 but have concerns about engine weaknesses then go for one of those. You can get them starting at 10 grand now so 15 should see you get a realliy good one. There are not many around if you look so you can't be too picky.
I've had mine now for nearly 3 years and I love it. Mine is 22 years old and has seen some action. It's no garage queen and lives outside. I use it for short trips daily, so starting from cold and not really getting up to temp and in all weathers too although I'd draw the line at snow - if it comes. I just treat it like anyone else would treat their car.
I know it might die at some point but I'm just enjoying it while I can and I hope it doesn't. If you buy one for 10 and it implodes then you might lose a few grand. If you buy a 997 for nearer to 20 will you have twice the car - only you can answer that.
A 986 boxster is pretty much the same car as a 996 but with just different weight distribution and the soft top which adds roof down appeal if that appeals to you. The soft top takes away a lot of the body's stiffness. As you can see a good boxster starts at 4 grand so if that implodes you've lost a lot less. They're are loads to choose from too.
One thing I find interesting about the 997.1 potential engine grenade itself issues is...
It costs £10-12k to fix/imprivey but many people happily buy a new 'normal' car as their main car and accept £10k+ depreciation over 2 years and literally get nothing for it (apart from that new car smell).
A good 997.1 will definitely give you more driving pleasure than a depreciating Hyundai SUV for example.
So you can buy a 997.1, most likely have no engine issues and worst case biggie is the £10k rebuild. If you've picked a good example, depreciation on the car should be minimal at this stage. Currently, it appears you barely get any premium come sale time if it's had a rebuild. If you hold the car long enough I believe this will change as the casual buyer will fall out of the market and the ones left will be wise to the likes of Hartech, etc work and will put some value on a car that's been rebuilt by them.
Might not be explaining myself well but life's all about weighing up risk/reward...
It costs £10-12k to fix/imprivey but many people happily buy a new 'normal' car as their main car and accept £10k+ depreciation over 2 years and literally get nothing for it (apart from that new car smell).
A good 997.1 will definitely give you more driving pleasure than a depreciating Hyundai SUV for example.
So you can buy a 997.1, most likely have no engine issues and worst case biggie is the £10k rebuild. If you've picked a good example, depreciation on the car should be minimal at this stage. Currently, it appears you barely get any premium come sale time if it's had a rebuild. If you hold the car long enough I believe this will change as the casual buyer will fall out of the market and the ones left will be wise to the likes of Hartech, etc work and will put some value on a car that's been rebuilt by them.
Might not be explaining myself well but life's all about weighing up risk/reward...
Buying a Boxster (or Cayman) as a more short term car to own while you look for that 'forever' 911 purchase maybe has some merit.
There's lots to research on Porsches so don't rush into anything 911 be my advice. Can take months of reading before you feel you're getting a handle on it all.
Try to talk to guys that actually work on Porsches and what failure rates they see in real life (don't ring Hartech though). They will no doubt explain that the coveted air cooled models are not without their issues and sure isn't hurting their values.
There's lots to research on Porsches so don't rush into anything 911 be my advice. Can take months of reading before you feel you're getting a handle on it all.
Try to talk to guys that actually work on Porsches and what failure rates they see in real life (don't ring Hartech though
). They will no doubt explain that the coveted air cooled models are not without their issues and sure isn't hurting their values.A tip top an up to date super well maintained pork including any 9x6 or 9x7 will feel great because all the main components will be new. Suspension, brakes, clutch and gear selector should all be spot on. Which is why a 20 year old Porsche doesn't feel like a 20 year old car when you're driving it. Totally different proposition to any other 20 year old car which is still wearing its original and 20 year old tired components.
If it came to a straight choice between 997.1 or a really nice Boxster/Cayman (so, a 987.2 Boxster, say) I'd go for the Boxster every time. There's only two of you, so you don't need rear seats, and you can actually drive a gen 2 Boxster without being haunted by the risk of scored bores - a risk that I, personally, wouldn't take.
The only 997.1 I'd buy (ignore GT cars and Turbos) is one that had had a full Hartech treatment.
The only 997.1 I'd buy (ignore GT cars and Turbos) is one that had had a full Hartech treatment.
ATM said:
A tip top an up to date super well maintained pork including any 9x6 or 9x7 will feel great because all the main components will be new. Suspension, brakes, clutch and gear selector should all be spot on. Which is why a 20 year old Porsche doesn't feel like a 20 year old car when you're driving it. Totally different proposition to any other 20 year old car which is still wearing its original and 20 year old tired components.
This is very true, get a full inspection and you’re good to go. A bad one will break your heart though without a doubt.Andyoz said:
One thing I find interesting about the 997.1 potential engine grenade itself issues is...
It costs £10-12k to fix/imprivey but many people happily buy a new 'normal' car as their main car and accept £10k+ depreciation over 2 years and literally get nothing for it (apart from that new car smell).
A good 997.1 will definitely give you more driving pleasure than a depreciating Hyundai SUV for example.
So you can buy a 997.1, most likely have no engine issues and worst case biggie is the £10k rebuild. If you've picked a good example, depreciation on the car should be minimal at this stage. Currently, it appears you barely get any premium come sale time if it's had a rebuild. If you hold the car long enough I believe this will change as the casual buyer will fall out of the market and the ones left will be wise to the likes of Hartech, etc work and will put some value on a car that's been rebuilt by them.
Might not be explaining myself well but life's all about weighing up risk/reward...
Very good point on depreciation of newer car as opposed to cost of the rebuild. I have the 997.1 and obviously hope it doesn’t develop engine issues but if it does it will going for a holiday to Hartech... then it will defo be a keeper. It costs £10-12k to fix/imprivey but many people happily buy a new 'normal' car as their main car and accept £10k+ depreciation over 2 years and literally get nothing for it (apart from that new car smell).
A good 997.1 will definitely give you more driving pleasure than a depreciating Hyundai SUV for example.
So you can buy a 997.1, most likely have no engine issues and worst case biggie is the £10k rebuild. If you've picked a good example, depreciation on the car should be minimal at this stage. Currently, it appears you barely get any premium come sale time if it's had a rebuild. If you hold the car long enough I believe this will change as the casual buyer will fall out of the market and the ones left will be wise to the likes of Hartech, etc work and will put some value on a car that's been rebuilt by them.
Might not be explaining myself well but life's all about weighing up risk/reward...
Mariosbt said:
Andyoz said:
One thing I find interesting about the 997.1 potential engine grenade itself issues is...
It costs £10-12k to fix/imprivey but many people happily buy a new 'normal' car as their main car and accept £10k+ depreciation over 2 years and literally get nothing for it (apart from that new car smell).
A good 997.1 will definitely give you more driving pleasure than a depreciating Hyundai SUV for example.
So you can buy a 997.1, most likely have no engine issues and worst case biggie is the £10k rebuild. If you've picked a good example, depreciation on the car should be minimal at this stage. Currently, it appears you barely get any premium come sale time if it's had a rebuild. If you hold the car long enough I believe this will change as the casual buyer will fall out of the market and the ones left will be wise to the likes of Hartech, etc work and will put some value on a car that's been rebuilt by them.
Might not be explaining myself well but life's all about weighing up risk/reward...
Very good point on depreciation of newer car as opposed to cost of the rebuild. I have the 997.1 and obviously hope it doesn’t develop engine issues but if it does it will going for a holiday to Hartech... then it will defo be a keeper. It costs £10-12k to fix/imprivey but many people happily buy a new 'normal' car as their main car and accept £10k+ depreciation over 2 years and literally get nothing for it (apart from that new car smell).
A good 997.1 will definitely give you more driving pleasure than a depreciating Hyundai SUV for example.
So you can buy a 997.1, most likely have no engine issues and worst case biggie is the £10k rebuild. If you've picked a good example, depreciation on the car should be minimal at this stage. Currently, it appears you barely get any premium come sale time if it's had a rebuild. If you hold the car long enough I believe this will change as the casual buyer will fall out of the market and the ones left will be wise to the likes of Hartech, etc work and will put some value on a car that's been rebuilt by them.
Might not be explaining myself well but life's all about weighing up risk/reward...
The thing is, if a rebuild has to be done it's probably more worthwhile getting the rebuild done on a 997.1 than a 987.1 as the 911 will hold value better (says the man who has a 987.1 Cayman!!). The rebuilds cost roughly the same I think.
I still recommend OP at least tries a gen 2 Cayman/Boxster before deciding.
Yes my mate has just spent 2k on the service of his 996.2 and around 18 months ago it was 3k. He is still talking about a full suspension refresh which would be another 3k minimum I'd guess. So yes these cars can swallow money which is why everyone who knows this buys carefully and everyone who doesn't buy pups and then complain about them to anyone who'll listen.
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