Anyone moved from the UK to Spain?

Anyone moved from the UK to Spain?

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993kimbo

Original Poster:

2,972 posts

184 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
Due to the cost of living, complete lack of work and rotten weather, we (family of three and a dog) are renting our house, selling the cars, buying a Citroen Estate and driving to Estepona or Marbella to live. We've been a couple of times on holiday before.

Property to rent and the cost of living looks to be cheaper in Spain and we intend to survive not by working but from the rent of our house in the UK.

Any tips, pitfalls to watch out for from anyone who has done similar?

All seems pretty scary at the moment (never even driven through France before)

Many thanks!

Edited by 993kimbo on Sunday 23 February 14:28

Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
I divide my time between the UK and Spain. If my partner wasn't working where she does, I would probably think about just staying in Spain year round. Many of those in my town are full time residents, although as one would expect, many of these are retirees and despite the digital nomad generation, its rare to find many expats there who are of working age as frankly jobs are sparse at best and certainly require fluency in at least those two language if not more - and often for lowly paid roles.

From what you say of your experience, can you dip your toe in the water first for a month or two (not sure what age your kids are)?

As for cost of living, many will say its not much difference these days but I disagree. Of course it depends what you spend money on, but I find when I m in Spain I spend far less in general. It is rare I find something costs more than in the UK (cars are a good example mind - eye wateringly expensive), and lots of little bits add up. That said, go to a big city in Spain and its a massive difference cost wise to the burbs. In general though, I find a supermarket shop to be of a similar price for the foods, alcohol however is v cheap. Daft things like a coffee out and about is €1/1.50, compared to £3 here. Its rare to ever have to pay to park, a beer after work in the local is €2 etc.

You are, however, looking at one of the more expensive areas in respect of the Costas.

GetCarter

29,358 posts

278 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
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I'm sure you are aware... but just in case: https://www.thelocal.es/20200122/can-brits-still-m...

993kimbo

Original Poster:

2,972 posts

184 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
GC, thanks for the link above.

Shnozz said:
From what you say of your experience, can you dip your toe in the water first for a month or two (not sure what age your kids are)?

As for cost of living, many will say its not much difference these days but I disagree. Of course it depends what you spend money on, but I find when I m in Spain I spend far less in general. It is rare I find something costs more than in the UK (cars are a good example mind - eye wateringly expensive), and lots of little bits add up. That said, go to a big city in Spain and its a massive difference cost wise to the burbs. In general though, I find a supermarket shop to be of a similar price for the foods, alcohol however is v cheap. Daft things like a coffee out and about is €1/1.50, compared to £3 here. Its rare to ever have to pay to park, a beer after work in the local is €2 etc.
Thanks Schnozz.

My son is 21, so basically it's three adults and a small dog. We were planning on renting something like an Airbnb for a month, then having a recce/drive around in that month looking for something more permanent and hoping for the best that we find somewhere we can afford. An urbanisation with swimming pools, tennis, shop and things to do looks favourite at the moment as long as it doesn't feel like a retirement home.

We currently pay £3250 per month in rent, £500 on heating and gas, £1200 on food and drink plus council tax, car permits and all the other stuff, so I'm hoping we can rent somewhere for around £1500 and pay half the food bills, council tax etc. We won't be travelling with a sack of money unfortunately, it's all going to be a bit tight.

Edited by 993kimbo on Sunday 23 February 16:10

Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
I have met over the years quite a number of English who have made the move with little by way of income and have then grown to resent the place. That said, I know where I would rather be..

If you are on a budget, Marbella area sounds an odd choice to be honest. Whilst there are cheaper pockets in the area, its generally renowned as being one of the more expensive parts and that has a knock on effect on all costs of living not just the property.

What does your 21 year old hope to do (or is doing)? I cannot emphasise enough that work opportunities will be almost non-existent. If they are bi-lingual you might be able to pic up something but there are hundreds of people filling black market jobs in Spain for piss poor wages just to try and get by. Salaries are low enough even if you are in a legit job, let alone a dodgy cash in hand bar gig.

None of my business in terms of your finances but you talk of an income being made from a property you own but then talk of spending £3k or so a month renting somewhere in the UK. Regardless, you are still going to need an income of a few grand a month +. Long term rentals tend to go for the same per month out of season as they are per week in peak season. As you say though, you can rent somewhere long term for reasonable money.

Taxes are reasonable, but then if you are renting its of little benefit. Cars are very expensive to buy and often high mileage and rough. Car insurance is about the same, SUMA (tax) for the car is cheap. Electricity isn't cheap and you pay a pretty hefty standing charge per month before you switch anything on. Also don't underestimate the air con costs for summer. In winter, it can be freezing indoors and if you are reliant on just air con for hot/cold, you will go through a lot of electric. Gas is rare in terms of central heating etc.

I always tend to argue life is too short and to get on and do these things, but I have also seen many people miserable in SPain in running away from something from their country of origin and then resenting their new life when they are scraping to get by.

993kimbo

Original Poster:

2,972 posts

184 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
Thanks again for your reply.

We chose Marbella only because that's the area we know, also Estepona seems nice. Not wedded to Marbella at all, we're not into the glitzy lifestyle or anything like that, but would want a bit of buzz rather than being stuck inland with mountains etc. Wife likes window shopping, I like driving, son likes bars and clubs.

My son is a professional close-up Magician and he may be able to get work at up-market parties, clubs etc but we won't rely on that.

I am a videographer, wife is a photographer. We shoot food for restaurants and property videos and photography. We were hoping that maybe some expats who run bars, restaurants and BnB's may need our services but we're not holding our breath.

Our income will come solely from our house we rent out in the UK, which is over £3k, so we'd be trying to get by on around £1500 pm to live after paying the rent in Spain. We are indeed running away, but have nowhere left to run over here.

Re cars, I'm allowed to drive a UK reg car in Spain aren't I? Is there a limit to how long I can stay with it UK registered do you know?

Carbon Sasquatch

4,581 posts

63 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
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993kimbo said:
Re cars, I'm allowed to drive a UK reg car in Spain aren't I? Is there a limit to how long I can stay with it UK registered do you know?
Check your insurance - most will only allow 30 or 90 days.

The car also needs to be legal to drive in the UK - and insured - so that means it needs an MOT......

Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
993kimbo said:
Re cars, I'm allowed to drive a UK reg car in Spain aren't I? Is there a limit to how long I can stay with it UK registered do you know?
It all depends on residency. If you are in Spain more than 183 days per year you are a resident for tax purposes. You are supposed to start that process after 90 days if it is your intention to stay in the country behind the 183 day period whereupon that is your country of residence.

You cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in your country of residence. Hence whilst you are still a UK resident living in Spain, you can drive your UK registered car. When you become a resident of Spain, you will no longer be able to legally drive that car. Similarly, you could not currently drive a Spanish registered car in the UK whilst you are still a UK resident.

Once a Spanish resident, you won't be legally able to drive your UK car within Spain - you can drive it anywhere outside of the country however.


Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
Carbon Sasquatch said:
Check your insurance - most will only allow 30 or 90 days.

The car also needs to be legal to drive in the UK - and insured - so that means it needs an MOT......
The 90 day policies are usually still in tranches of 30 days per trip too - albeit insurers will usually agree to combine them for a longe rperiod.

There are a few specialists that offer year round European coverage, such as Stuart Collins. It's quite a lot more expensive or was when I got a quote.

You can use a Spanish insurer to insure a UK car on UK plates, however, which then means you have annual coverage that way around - will cover you in Spain and across Europe year round. But yes, you need an MOT so will have to bring the car back at least once a year. If you let the MOT expire in Spain then you either have to pay a vast sum of money to have the car transported back to the UK or you risk an illegal drive for a few thousand miles.

As I say above, if you are living in that country in excess of 183 days, you legally become a resident and at that stage you would not be legally entitled to drive your UK registered car, so all the above considerations are irrelevant.

993kimbo

Original Poster:

2,972 posts

184 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
So, if after 180 days I drive back to the UK and then back out to Spain again, will I get another 183 days before I have to sign up as a resident?

Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
993kimbo said:
So, if after 180 days I drive back to the UK and then back out to Spain again, will I get another 183 days before I have to sign up as a resident?
No.

Anything in excess of 183 days in a 365 day period.

Other consideration post-Brexit now is even as a UK resident still, I must ensure I do not exceed 90 days in any 180 day period. Never had to worry about that before so will have to keep it in mind as my time in the country is not always equally spaced across the year.

If you are a little way down the process, I would have thought you had looked at the legal side? If not, I would suggest having a google and use this perhaps as a start. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements...


Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
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To be honest, it sounds like a good deal of investigation before you go would reap dividends. There's many potential pitfalls, most outlined above, and colleagues suggest that there is little/no chance of paid employment.

Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
I agree - and if this is a genuine intention, it sounds like there is a lot of reading to be done.

With the 3 of you all effectively being self-employed, be aware that to be legal to work on that basis in Spain you have to register as "autonomo". Straight from the word go you than have to make monthly payments that cover your healthcare etc. It's certainly a bit of a blocker to self-employment if you aren't earning good money in your chosen career.

Details here:-

https://www.healthplanspain.com/blog/expat-tips/35...

Never underestimate the amount of bureaucracy in Spain for doing ANYTHING AT ALL. It's very backwards in that sense, albeit part of its charm (until you tear your hair out doing the simplest of things). Everything from the self-employed as above, to buying a house and the paperwork, the "in person" attitude to appointments, even buying a car privately is a massive ball ache.

993kimbo

Original Poster:

2,972 posts

184 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
None of us are relying on work and if we did any, it would be on a cash basis, ie undeclared.I doubt we'd get much work anyway.

Slowly going off the whole idea at the moment, especially with all the motoring red tape.

Edited by 993kimbo on Sunday 23 February 20:42

paulwirral

3,104 posts

134 months

Sunday 23rd February 2020
quotequote all
We considered Spain in the area your thinking about probably twenty years ago , we tried it for a few months in a mates apartment in estepona and it's great for a while until you realise your not on holiday and you need to actually make a living .
Ultimately we were seduced by france and the property prices , and it didn't take a genius to realise there was a crash coming house price wise in Spain so we tried france .
If your even considering moving abroad all I can advise is to learn the language and rent somewhere in your chosen area for at least six months , preferably over the winter months, or if you can ,rent for a year before you commit . Visit as much as you can whilst remaining in England but spend as much time as possible there , once your past the holiday mentality it's an eye opener . There's a lot of people literally scratching a living out of nothing in Spain and france and they regret the move they made .
We sold up on a whim and moved to France eventually, after many months in Spain , but we were lucky in buying a property that I improved and managed to sell quite easily .
We went to a friends wedding two years ago just down the road from estepona , everyone there was English and all the people who lived there were struggling on all levels .
Good luck on what you decide but I can't recommend enough to throw 12 months rent in and try before you buy but remain in England .

h0b0

7,557 posts

195 months

Monday 24th February 2020
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Consider this post as encouragement due to genuine envy. I couldn’t imagine being “ready” to change country without investigating every single minute detail. And bare in mind I moved to the US when I was 24. Ownership of your car must surely be way down on the list of priorities.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

tumble dryer

1,996 posts

126 months

Monday 24th February 2020
quotequote all
Having just reached the age of retirement and seeing the weather that now seems to be the norm throughout our UK winter months, I’d been thinking along similar lines – though only for maybe 4/5 months of the year.

I’d considered renting a place for 6 months and starting and finishing the ‘holiday’ with a road trip back and forth.
Anyone done something similar, and any pitfalls to be aware of?
(Can’t stand sleet, snow, rain, wind, cold, grey.)

Shnozz

27,418 posts

270 months

Monday 24th February 2020
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Having just reached the age of retirement and seeing the weather that now seems to be the norm throughout our UK winter months, I’d been thinking along similar lines – though only for maybe 4/5 months of the year.

I’d considered renting a place for 6 months and starting and finishing the ‘holiday’ with a road trip back and forth.
Anyone done something similar, and any pitfalls to be aware of?
(Can’t stand sleet, snow, rain, wind, cold, grey.)
Again, starting point is the legal position before you consider anything else.

Your biggest issue in your plan is the 90/180 day rule that you will be subject to, assuming you retain your UK residency. Within any 180 day period you will not be able to stay beyond 90 days after the Brexit transition period.

Details can be found here:

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-ho...

Aside from the legalities, I can't see many pitfalls. I am currently in the UK and "enjoyed" the last week on business in rain swept and windy Dublin and London. This morning I awoke to snow FFS. Bring on this Saturday when I head back to a daytime of 24 degrees (as the weather forecast says today). Overnight temps do fall rapidly at this time of the year; literally as the sun goes down the temperature drops off a cliff. However, its the clear skies that make the difference to me as much as some warmth. I actually enjoy the fact that the country still has seasons rather than one continuous year round temperature and one time for nightfall as you get closer to the equator.

If you are not leaving the UK lock stock and barrel, easy enough to have a nice drive down there and assess for a few months, sort your NIE number on the ground and the same with a bank account. As I said, bureaucracy is bonkers there so its almost essential you get these sorted whilst on the ground.

tumble dryer

1,996 posts

126 months

Monday 24th February 2020
quotequote all
Shnozz said:
tumble dryer said:
Having just reached the age of retirement and seeing the weather that now seems to be the norm throughout our UK winter months, I’d been thinking along similar lines – though only for maybe 4/5 months of the year.

I’d considered renting a place for 6 months and starting and finishing the ‘holiday’ with a road trip back and forth.
Anyone done something similar, and any pitfalls to be aware of?
(Can’t stand sleet, snow, rain, wind, cold, grey.)
Again, starting point is the legal position before you consider anything else.

Your biggest issue in your plan is the 90/180 day rule that you will be subject to, assuming you retain your UK residency. Within any 180 day period you will not be able to stay beyond 90 days after the Brexit transition period.

Details can be found here:

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-ho...

Aside from the legalities, I can't see many pitfalls. I am currently in the UK and "enjoyed" the last week on business in rain swept and windy Dublin and London. This morning I awoke to snow FFS. Bring on this Saturday when I head back to a daytime of 24 degrees (as the weather forecast says today). Overnight temps do fall rapidly at this time of the year; literally as the sun goes down the temperature drops off a cliff. However, its the clear skies that make the difference to me as much as some warmth. I actually enjoy the fact that the country still has seasons rather than one continuous year round temperature and one time for nightfall as you get closer to the equator.

If you are not leaving the UK lock stock and barrel, easy enough to have a nice drive down there and assess for a few months, sort your NIE number on the ground and the same with a bank account. As I said, bureaucracy is bonkers there so its almost essential you get these sorted whilst on the ground.
Much appreciated, I'm just at the depressed stage winter-weather wise (grey) and there's nothing holding me back from doing this. I'd thought about buying somewhere but thinking about it I would prefer to change winter destinations as and when it took my fancy and without the commitment to a property abroad.

Thanks for your help. I'm now off on a daydream.... cool

AlBondigaz

172 posts

66 months

Monday 24th February 2020
quotequote all
Shnozz said:
Again, starting point is the legal position before you consider anything else.

Your biggest issue in your plan is the 90/180 day rule that you will be subject to, assuming you retain your UK residency. Within any 180 day period you will not be able to stay beyond 90 days after the Brexit transition period.

Details can be found here:

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-ho...

.
Note this is 90 days in 180 in any part of the EU Shegen area - not 90/180 in each EU country. So, e.g. you can't do 90 days in Spain followed by 90 days in France.