GT3 / 3RS / Touring

[hunter 66]

Haha Yes maybe a 993 GT2 R on 1.2 bar

[footsoldier]

Yellow491 said:

Footsoldier interested to see what your are comparing with for the rs to be unsatisfying to drive.

Well, things like 60s F1 cars
More generally, like I said, (and I’m sure this is an old argument...), I’m comparing them to ‘race cars’.

Don’t get me wrong, I think 3RS are great cars, and I still think GT cars are on another level compared to any other manufacturer (for tracking), but you can’t hide all that weight. And, you can’t mass produce a car with 500bhp without adding a lot of safety kit that removes some of the purity of response, and adds a layer between driver and car.
(But bear in mind I’m still of the opinion that ABS is an unnecessary driver aid!)

Drive it to track day, thrash round with friends, drive home - nothing to touch it.

[964Cup]

Struggling to justify £40k extra for a .2, and not finding any .2s listed cheaper than £180k in the right spec; can see a number of £140k asking .1s. Anyone know what's wrong with the Family Autos or Monarch cars (apart from the comedy name of the first dealership)?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
https://monarchenterprises.co.uk/current-stock/car...

(ps "Lava Orange" is not an answer to "What's wrong with these cars?". I like orange.)

As an aside, how cheap are McLarens? You can get a 2-year-old 720S Performance for 991.1GT3RS money. I've heard the horror stories, and obviously McLaren may not make it through the present crisis, but would any of you consider turning to the dark side for the extra performance? Are they actually as terrible as some people (usually not people in the actual McLaren forum) make out?

[Tripe Bypass]

964Cup said:

Struggling to justify £40k extra for a .2, and not finding any .2s listed cheaper than £180k in the right spec; can see a number of £140k asking .1s. Anyone know what's wrong with the Family Autos or Monarch cars (apart from the comedy name of the first dealership)?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
https://monarchenterprises.co.uk/current-stock/car...

(ps "Lava Orange" is not an answer to "What's wrong with these cars?". I like orange.)

As an aside, how cheap are McLarens? You can get a 2-year-old 720S Performance for 991.1GT3RS money. I've heard the horror stories, and obviously McLaren may not make it through the present crisis, but would any of you consider turning to the dark side for the extra performance? Are they actually as terrible as some people (usually not people in the actual McLaren forum) make out?

Nothing necessarily wrong with those cars but a lot of potential buyers want a certain spec and won't compromise.
The former car has folding bucket seats and the majority want the 918 fixed bucket seats, even if the folding bucket might suit them better. And 11,000 miles is apparently to the Moon and back for a lot of people.
The latter car has the plastic dash and door trims and most people want leather and stitching.
And maybe a mixed marque independent garage that not many have heard about could put people off.

[Yellow491]

964Cup said:

Struggling to justify £40k extra for a .2, and not finding any .2s listed cheaper than £180k in the right spec; can see a number of £140k asking .1s. Anyone know what's wrong with the Family Autos or Monarch cars (apart from the comedy name of the first dealership)?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
https://monarchenterprises.co.uk/current-stock/car...

(ps "Lava Orange" is not an answer to "What's wrong with these cars?". I like orange.)

As an aside, how cheap are McLarens? You can get a 2-year-old 720S Performance for 991.1GT3RS money. I've heard the horror stories, and obviously McLaren may not make it through the present crisis, but would any of you consider turning to the dark side for the extra performance? Are they actually as terrible as some people (usually not people in the actual McLaren forum) make out?

Friend came by with his new rs.2 2018 having just part x his rs.1,he said the 1felt a bit rawer,but does not drive as well,better grip and road manners out of the 2,mine 2019 with the new filter and itb etc sounded quieter parked up,but louder inside when booting it.
The important part about the 1 over 2,what about when the warranty runs out,which was a concerning point for my mate.
Had a day of some of the best fun for years in these cars,and all the nonsense about them being to fast for the road and not so involving,they kept us on the edge of our seats

I had a maca for 3 years,fantastic car on the road and track,quicker than the rs and better road manners,but have to say the latest rs has come on massively on the road, in turn in and does not want to throw you into the hedge.
The maca are great value for the performance,shame they get so much bad press,the carbon tub is the way forward!Great cars,go and drive one.

[Yellow491]

footsoldier said:

Yellow491 said:

Footsoldier interested to see what your are comparing with for the rs to be unsatisfying to drive.

Well, things like 60s F1 cars
More generally, like I said, (and I’m sure this is an old argument...), I’m comparing them to ‘race cars’.

Don’t get me wrong, I think 3RS are great cars, and I still think GT cars are on another level compared to any other manufacturer (for tracking), but you can’t hide all that weight. And, you can’t mass produce a car with 500bhp without adding a lot of safety kit that removes some of the purity of response, and adds a layer between driver and car.
(But bear in mind I’m still of the opinion that ABS is an unnecessary driver aid!)

Drive it to track day, thrash round with friends, drive home - nothing to touch it.

Ah ,that makes sense,not really fair to compare to race cars,as they dont compete with my track cars,but as you say not much to touch it as a road car.With 500bhp on the road,it needs some aids for a lot of drivers ,to keep them on the road if they dont respect the weapon!

[lowndes]

964Cup said:

Struggling to justify £40k extra for a .2, and not finding any .2s listed cheaper than £180k in the right spec; can see a number of £140k asking .1s. Anyone know what's wrong with the Family Autos or Monarch cars (apart from the comedy name of the first dealership)?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
https://monarchenterprises.co.uk/current-stock/car...

(ps "Lava Orange" is not an answer to "What's wrong with these cars?". I like orange.)

As an aside, how cheap are McLarens? You can get a 2-year-old 720S Performance for 991.1GT3RS money. I've heard the horror stories, and obviously McLaren may not make it through the present crisis, but would any of you consider turning to the dark side for the extra performance? Are they actually as terrible as some people (usually not people in the actual McLaren forum) make out?

I have some P cars including a Touring. 720S is right up there with the best. It’s a 19 car I’ve had from new and have had zero problems. Beautifully balanced and fast but equally enjoyable when on a tour. No manual of course so H&T aficionados may not like it but then manual GT3 and Touring have rev match so is it really such an issue?

In its element

[Taffy66]

Yellow491 said:

Friend came by with his new rs.2 2018 having just part x his rs.1,he said the 1felt a bit rawer,but does not drive as well,better grip and road manners out of the 2,mine 2019 with the new filter and itb etc sounded quieter parked up,but louder inside when booting it.
The important part about the 1 over 2,what about when the warranty runs out,which was a concerning point for my mate.
Had a day of some of the best fun for years in these cars,and all the nonsense about them being to fast for the road and not so involving,they kept us on the edge of our seats
one.

Your PTS Nardo RS WP looks amazing and as you say they are brilliant cars..

[Dr S]

Taffy66 said:

Your PTS Nardo RS WP looks amazing and as you say they are brilliant cars..

What he said

[964Cup]

lowndes said:

I have some P cars including a Touring. 720S is right up there with the best. It’s a 19 car I’ve had from new and have had zero problems. Beautifully balanced and fast but equally enjoyable when on a tour. No manual of course so H&T aficionados may not like it but then manual GT3 and Touring have rev match so is it really such an issue?

In its element

[snip]Lovely pic[/snip]

If you were planning to do 12 track days a year, say 3 hours track time per day, driving for lap times, would you expect the 720 to suck it up and shrug it off, or to be temperamental or fragile? Porsche maintenance isn't cheap as such, but I understand McLaren to be even less cheap and parts supply to be occasionally challenging, and with a 3RS I feel fairly confident that I can do that kind of thing and only expect to pay for tyres, discs, pads, fluids and labour - and more importantly, for the car always to be available to do it.

[isaldiri]

964Cup said:

If you were planning to do 12 track days a year, say 3 hours track time per day, driving for lap times,

Your consumables bill is going to be astronomical in the Mclaren given the above if you are seriously trying for quick times.

[Slippydiff]

isaldiri said:

Your consumables bill is going to be astronomical in the Mclaren given the above if you are seriously trying for quick times.

Would that require 12 visits to your McLaren dealer for a pre-trackday inspection too ?

[isaldiri]

Slippydiff said:

Would that require 12 visits to your McLaren dealer for a pre-trackday inspection too ?

Technically it could be 24 as you're supposed to do pre and post inspections..... But it really depends on how risk averse one is to want to follow the warranty guidelines exactly to the letter and/or your relationship with the dealership.

In practice, trackday inspections are not quite as onerous as it's sometimes made up to be. Or at least it wasn't the case when I had my car 3 years ago and I still don't know anyone who follows that inspection stuff anything like as regularly. The dealerships have been afaik reasonable, every 3-4ish track days just throw in an inspection (and you'd probably want to change oil anyway) and that has been fine for everyone I know as well as myself on any warranty claims.

[964Cup]

isaldiri said:

Your consumables bill is going to be astronomical in the Mclaren given the above if you are seriously trying for quick times.

I'm assuming the main cost (apart from labour) will be brakes? Presumably there are warranty issues if one uses aftermarket brakes like Surface Transforms?

I'm currently thinking about buying a 3RS and then switching to Surface Transform carbon discs. I understand even the latest gen PCCBs have significant wear issues on track. I imagine I'd keep the original discs/pads etc and then switch back on resale. I haven't yet looked into the effect of this on warranty, however. I've not owned a new Porsche for yonks, so don't have a live relationship with an OPC and hence an ability to stretch the rules.

I'm assume that, with some care, it's possible to continue to benefit from Porsche's warranty while tracking the car, and that this is sensible relative to the likely cost of repairs.

[footsoldier]

I don't think you will have (m)any issues with PCCBs. Manthey racing have apparently done about 25,000km on track with their 2RS, and I know they only changed pads and lines, not the discs.
Surface Transforms for sure on a Mac, and seems worth looking at the Thorney warranty/support if you're going to hammer it.

[Cheib]

964Cup said:

isaldiri said:

Your consumables bill is going to be astronomical in the Mclaren given the above if you are seriously trying for quick times.

I'm assuming the main cost (apart from labour) will be brakes? Presumably there are warranty issues if one uses aftermarket brakes like Surface Transforms?

I'm currently thinking about buying a 3RS and then switching to Surface Transform carbon discs. I understand even the latest gen PCCBs have significant wear issues on track. I imagine I'd keep the original discs/pads etc and then switch back on resale. I haven't yet looked into the effect of this on warranty, however. I've not owned a new Porsche for yonks, so don't have a live relationship with an OPC and hence an ability to stretch the rules.

I'm assume that, with some care, it's possible to continue to benefit from Porsche's warranty while tracking the car, and that this is sensible relative to the likely cost of repairs.

It’s very much on a case by case with each OPC as to what the view is on modifications...some people get a much friendlier view from their OPC than others which I suppose depends on the modification and the relationship with the OPC. In theory they’d have to have a good reason to turn down a warranty claim rather than just throw it out because the car isn’t standard.

What is definite though is if you want to run an extended warranty after the three year one has expired the car has to be 100% OEM when they do the 111 point check....that means battery, tyres, wiper blades the lot! You can, of course, switch brakes but I imagine that’s expensive unless you’re very handy with a spanner!

[isaldiri]

964Cup said:

I'm assuming the main cost (apart from labour) will be brakes? Presumably there are warranty issues if one uses aftermarket brakes like Surface Transforms?

Yes brakes in particular especially OEM. The cars are phenomenally quick in a straight line after all so you're having to shed a hell of a lot more speed than in most other cars. Also (and I'm not joking here) - fuel costs with the Mclaren are sky high. I used to burn more £ in fuel on a trackday than the cost of the day itself.

As Cheib says, it kind of depends on aftermarket items. In theory on the manufacturer warranty you're covered as they need to prove whatever modification you did caused the failure. No issues though with using surface transform brakes on Mclaren for those I do know that have and I never had issues running non Mclaren spec tyres and brake pads either previously. Unlike Porsche I had no issue extending the warranty on my 12c with said non standard parts although whether that still applies now I don't know as I was told warranty related issues were subsequently tightened up a fair bit as the dealerships were taking the piss on what they were claiming for.

footsoldier said:

I don't think you will have (m)any issues with PCCBs. Manthey racing have apparently done about 25,000km on track with their 2RS, and I know they only changed pads and lines, not the discs.

Most of that track mileage will be at the ring though which isn't very hard on brakes generally... If they did 25k at Hockenheim I'd be a lot more impressed that the rotors had held up. Not saying the PCCBs don't last but worth bearing that in mind anyway imo.

[footsoldier]

Someone will no doubt be along to say different...but I've not heard of issues with latest gen PCCB, and Porsche will tell you the steel brake thing is outdated.

[isaldiri]

footsoldier said:

Someone will no doubt be along to say different...but I've not heard of issues with latest gen PCCB, and Porsche will tell you the steel brake thing is outdated.

At £5k per rotor they would say that wouldn't they....?

[Twinfan]

footsoldier said:

Someone will no doubt be along to say different...but I've not heard of issues with latest gen PCCB, and Porsche will tell you the steel brake thing is outdated.

Depends what you mean by "issues" - damage was my biggest concern so I avoided them:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...