Dilemma - Porsche or Toyota?

[Neil1323bolts]

Well if the new Yaris GR is anywhere near as good as my GRMN it will be worth owning, proper fun car that can really fly down the twisty bits , saying that we ran a cayman for 5 years loved that also , for most people , the fact you can say you own and drive a Porsche will be the decision made . I would go for the Toyota, pure drivers car , and not many expect a Yaris to be that quick , which at times is fun .

[moonigan]

vahe said:

To be precise, t&c’s clearly mention that £1500 is in addition to the cost of the car, not a deposit. Have a look, I saw it there. It’s refundable if you change your mind prior to signing the paperwork I believe, otherwise it’s that plus the car cost.

I read through the t&c tonight. The £1500 is fully refundable if you cancel and is also refunded when you buy the car. They state that the £1500 will not be used as part payment to the final price of the car. Not sure what the angle is with this.

[vahe]

moonigan said:

I read through the t&c tonight. The £1500 is fully refundable if you cancel and is also refunded when you buy the car. They state that the £1500 will not be used as part payment to the final price of the car. Not sure what the angle is with this.

“£1500 will not be used as part payment to the final price of the car”
That’s what makes me think it’s a fee that is refundable only if cancelled.
I didn’t see anything about it getting refunded in all cases, I’ll need to read again.

[vahe]

Neil1323bolts said:

Well if the new Yaris GR is anywhere near as good as my GRMN it will be worth owning, proper fun car that can really fly down the twisty bits , saying that we ran a cayman for 5 years loved that also , for most people , the fact you can say you own and drive a Porsche will be the decision made . I would go for the Toyota, pure drivers car , and not many expect a Yaris to be that quick , which at times is fun .

Nice looking car!!

[Sevenon]

vahe said:

A £800 refundable deposit for Yaris GR? How?
The only option I see online is a £1500 non-refundable reservation fee.

I called a couple of local Toyota dealerships. One wanted £1,000 refundable deposit, my closest dealership wanted £800 refundable deposit.

[ras62]

This sounds like a lot of fun but 1280kg? How on earth does something so small weigh so much!

[Klippie]

I've been looking at the Yaris as well but it won't replace my Cayman no matter how good it is...if I had to choose it would be the Porsche every time.

Mine would be in Scarlet Flare with the Circuit Pack...I like that lots.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

ras62 said:

This sounds like a lot of fun but 1280kg? How on earth does something so small weigh so much!

Amazing how much modern cars have grown in heft over the last decade or so. A similar car built in the 90's like the 1.3l 106 Rallye came in at 816kg; nearly half a ton lighter (-464kg). It really is quite shocking!

This takes nothing away from the fact that the Yaris GR really does sound like a great deviation from the sea of bland; just imagine though, if as much effort was being made by manufacturers today to drop the weight back down to times of old, combined with modern engine tech and economy, the results on all fronts would be truly staggering.

[snotrag]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Amazing how much modern cars have grown in heft over the last decade or so. A similar car built in the 90's like the 1.3l 106 Rallye came in at 816kg; nearly half a ton lighter (-464kg). It really is quite shocking!

This takes nothing away from the fact that the Yaris GR really does sound like a great deviation from the sea of bland; just imagine though, if as much effort was being made by manufacturers today to drop the weight back down to times of old, combined with modern engine tech and economy, the results on all fronts would be truly staggering.

I still think 1200 and something is pretty good - compare with the 106 Rallye above and the Yaris has

- Bigger overall, particularly taller
- Bigger wheels
- Considerably bigger brakes
- All wheel drive, so
- Much more complex suspension
- Much more complex rear subframe in particular
- Rear diff?
- Centre diff?
- Turbocharged - much more complex exchaust, probalby 2 cats, intercooler, extra piping etc
- Massively more plush interior
- Miles more wiring


Its a lot, lot more car.

An absolute povvo spec, base model yaris is probably closer to the 106 Rallye in weight, and probably driving dynamics too.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Amazing how much modern cars have grown in heft over the last decade or so. A similar car built in the 90's like the 1.3l 106 Rallye came in at 816kg; nearly half a ton lighter (-464kg). It really is quite shocking!

This takes nothing away from the fact that the Yaris GR really does sound like a great deviation from the sea of bland; just imagine though, if as much effort was being made by manufacturers today to drop the weight back down to times of old, combined with modern engine tech and economy, the results on all fronts would be truly staggering.

It's not remotely similar to a 106 rally. It's closer to an evo 1 or 2 or impreza, in both size and spec... And both these cars are similar in weight, without any of the safety features of the Toyota.

[snotrag]

That ^ basically. It's probably pretty close to an old impreza. They weighed about 1200-1300 kg too, surprisingly!

[Stunters]

For those of you with a Yaris order in - do you know if you can have it without the rear privacy glass?
I don't like privacy glass, it spoils the lines of the car in my opinion (other opinions vary, of course...) and I would much prefer it without.

I imagine you have to "take it as it comes" with the privacy glass.

My GR Yaris would be black, to minimise the impact of the privacy glass
Proper handbrake for the win, though...

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Amazing how much modern cars have grown in heft over the last decade or so. A similar car built in the 90's like the 1.3l 106 Rallye came in at 816kg; nearly half a ton lighter (-464kg). It really is quite shocking!

This takes nothing away from the fact that the Yaris GR really does sound like a great deviation from the sea of bland; just imagine though, if as much effort was being made by manufacturers today to drop the weight back down to times of old, combined with modern engine tech and economy, the results on all fronts would be truly staggering.

It's not remotely similar to a 106 rally. It's closer to an evo 1 or 2 or impreza, in both size and spec... And both these cars are similar in weight, without any of the safety features of the Toyota.

Sorry guys, I have to disagree, there is potential to remove serious weight from modern cars. I've personally managed to removed 253kg from a 996 with all carpets, seats and interior panels still remaining potentially this would mean a 1042kg dry weight for a 996 (which started out at 1377kg). So a little hatchback I would expect to yield a significant weight loss if someone decided to pursue this path especially so given the drivetrain and forced induction elements on the GR. Comparing a tiny hatch to an Impreza or Evo is daft. Both of these are saloons and have 2.0l engines for a start. It may not seem realistic but having gone through this process I can personally verify the potential is significant if you really set your mind to it.

[GT3ZZZ]

Stunters said:

For those of you with a Yaris order in - do you know if you can have it without the rear privacy glass?
I don't like privacy glass, it spoils the lines of the car in my opinion (other opinions vary, of course...) and I would much prefer it without.

I imagine you have to "take it as it comes" with the privacy glass.

My GR Yaris would be black, to minimise the impact of the privacy glass
Proper handbrake for the win, though...

I have one on order and the only options were the circuit pack and choice of exterior colour.

[Sevenon]

Stunters said:

For those of you with a Yaris order in - do you know if you can have it without the rear privacy glass?
I don't like privacy glass, it spoils the lines of the car in my opinion (other opinions vary, of course...) and I would much prefer it without.

I imagine you have to "take it as it comes" with the privacy glass.

My GR Yaris would be black, to minimise the impact of the privacy glass
Proper handbrake for the win, though...

I believe privacy glass is standard. Looks like you get a lot as standard.

[vahe]

I preordered Yaris after test driving a 718 t )
Can’t believe I’m writing this.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Sorry guys, I have to disagree, there is potential to remove serious weight from modern cars. I've personally managed to removed 253kg from a 996 with all carpets, seats and interior panels still remaining potentially this would mean a 1042kg dry weight for a 996 (which started out at 1377kg). So a little hatchback I would expect to yield a significant weight loss if someone decided to pursue this path especially so given the drivetrain and forced induction elements on the GR. Comparing a tiny hatch to an Impreza or Evo is daft. Both of these are saloons and have 2.0l engines for a start. It may not seem realistic but having gone through this process I can personally verify the potential is significant if you really set your mind to it.

You're saying comparing two homologation special cars, which are both front engined, and have AWD is daft...

...but then suggest pulling 250kg out of a 3 times the price 2wd rear engined car is relevant...

For info the yaris is both wider and taller than an evo 1 and only 300mm shorter. So it's not tiny.

Of course it can be made lighter, you could chuck a load of cf bodywork and ally components at it, but it wouldn't be 30k.

When contemporary AWD hatches are 1500-1600kg,Toyota have done a good job on weight.

[EGTE]

vahe said:

I preordered Yaris after test driving a 718 t )
Can’t believe I’m writing this.

I think you made the right choice, honestly.

[anonymous-user]

vahe said:

I preordered Yaris after test driving a 718 t )
Can’t believe I’m writing this.

I have twice bought other marques having driven Porsche products.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Sorry guys, I have to disagree, there is potential to remove serious weight from modern cars. I've personally managed to removed 253kg from a 996 with all carpets, seats and interior panels still remaining potentially this would mean a 1042kg dry weight for a 996 (which started out at 1377kg). So a little hatchback I would expect to yield a significant weight loss if someone decided to pursue this path especially so given the drivetrain and forced induction elements on the GR. Comparing a tiny hatch to an Impreza or Evo is daft. Both of these are saloons and have 2.0l engines for a start. It may not seem realistic but having gone through this process I can personally verify the potential is significant if you really set your mind to it.

You're saying comparing two homologation special cars, which are both front engined, and have AWD is daft...

...but then suggest pulling 250kg out of a 3 times the price 2wd rear engined car is relevant...

For info the yaris is both wider and taller than an evo 1 and only 300mm shorter. So it's not tiny.

Of course it can be made lighter, you could chuck a load of cf bodywork and ally components at it, but it wouldn't be 30k.

When contemporary AWD hatches are 1500-1600kg,Toyota have done a good job on weight.

Sorry fellow, I really don't mean to argue or take anything away from the achievement of what Toyota have done with the GR but cars have ballooned massively over the years, a few examples off the top of my head (I may be a little out with the weights):

-Original mini sub 600kg : 2020 Mini Cooper around 1250kg = +650kg
-911r (1967) 800kg : 2020 911GT3RS will be in the order of 1400kg = again around +600kg
-Even a lightweight little Elise has gone up over 200kg within its short lifespan

There is plenty of potential to make cars much lighter especially so given modern composite technology and lightweight 3 cyl Turbo engines. It just isn't the way yet, although the Alfa 4C came somewhere close.
Good luck to Toyota, it is great to see them producing such a serious weapon. With 25000 units being produced it should provide a lot of fun for many lucky buyers.