Collecting cars 964RS

Collecting cars 964RS

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Discussion

Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Friday 12th March 2021
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Cheib said:
GT3Manthey said:
MDL111 said:
Still have not owned an air cooled car.... shame on me I know. I think if I could (can’t atm) afford it, the 964 RS is at the top of the list of the still semi-affordable cars. Although I’d probably be just as happy with a standard 963/993 C2 that has been fettled a little bit.

if I had a little more money available, I saw a road registered 993 RSR copy for sale which looks great to me

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
That's a thing of beauty and the detail stacks up but for me at that price I'd have had RSVP's Fly Yellow all day.
I struggle to see how much someone would really use that RSR. I can’t imagine it’s a great road car and on track I am sure it’s fun but I am also sure say a 991.2 GT3 RS is also a lot of fun...quicker on track and very easy to “arrive and drive”. Feel the same about something like a 964 NGT....I know there are a lot less of them but the RS Lightweight is so much more usable.
I think you are wrong,one of the prev owners drove it to the ring and spa etc,and raced it.With modern adjustable dampers and springs you can make cars fairly manageable on the road and the big bonus even better on track when you get there,it just depends what you want out of a car,that 993 would run rings around any 964,it is a 993rscs on steriods and better.

Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Friday 12th March 2021
quotequote all
RSVP911 said:
Hi P - hope you are ok ?

Tough question TBH - I really liked the car and really enjoyed finding it, importing it, fettling to make it spot on. It’s was a real event to drive, the engine and chassis was absolutely lovely & being LHD made it a very special event. However, I want to keep trying different things and am running a very strict one in , one out policy and in the end it came down to working out how they all fit together and I decided that the 964 RS box was ticked - very happy to have had the chance to experience one though smile

Edited to add - re your comment about them being slow by today’s standards - yes maybe, but I never thought this - always felt quite full on to me.

Edited by RSVP911 on Friday 12th March 19:44
All fine here,just itching to get out!
A lot of fun in searching for a car for sure,i luv it,they are a special event compared to a more modern car,but they are slow in todays standards, but involving.Sensible one in one out,but whats in then ,or are you to embarrassed to say,hope its not a Toyota yaris 4wd hte/tor/jsm/wrc thingysmile

Cheib

23,111 posts

174 months

Sunday 14th March 2021
quotequote all
Yellow491 said:
Cheib said:
GT3Manthey said:
MDL111 said:
Still have not owned an air cooled car.... shame on me I know. I think if I could (can’t atm) afford it, the 964 RS is at the top of the list of the still semi-affordable cars. Although I’d probably be just as happy with a standard 963/993 C2 that has been fettled a little bit.

if I had a little more money available, I saw a road registered 993 RSR copy for sale which looks great to me

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
That's a thing of beauty and the detail stacks up but for me at that price I'd have had RSVP's Fly Yellow all day.
I struggle to see how much someone would really use that RSR. I can’t imagine it’s a great road car and on track I am sure it’s fun but I am also sure say a 991.2 GT3 RS is also a lot of fun...quicker on track and very easy to “arrive and drive”. Feel the same about something like a 964 NGT....I know there are a lot less of them but the RS Lightweight is so much more usable.
I think you are wrong,one of the prev owners drove it to the ring and spa etc,and raced it.With modern adjustable dampers and springs you can make cars fairly manageable on the road and the big bonus even better on track when you get there,it just depends what you want out of a car,that 993 would run rings around any 964,it is a 993rscs on steriods and better.
I am sure that's all possible and don't doubt your expertise...maybe it's just me. I really wouldn't want a car with a full cage etc as I think the only time I'd ever drive it is on track...especially with the seats in this car!

jimmyslr

798 posts

272 months

Sunday 14th March 2021
quotequote all
Yellow491 said:
I think you are wrong,one of the prev owners drove it to the ring and spa etc,and raced it.With modern adjustable dampers and springs you can make cars fairly manageable on the road and the big bonus even better on track when you get there,it just depends what you want out of a car,that 993 would run rings around any 964,it is a 993rscs on steriods and better.
I was in it as we drove back from the ring in light snow; it was my friend’s car. The absence of a proper heater and well used cup tyres made it something of an “experience”. We’d broken the RS and so had to unload the RSR from the truck to have a car to drive back in. Happy days - the photos are on my wall.

Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Monday 15th March 2021
quotequote all
jimmyslr said:
Yellow491 said:
I think you are wrong,one of the prev owners drove it to the ring and spa etc,and raced it.With modern adjustable dampers and springs you can make cars fairly manageable on the road and the big bonus even better on track when you get there,it just depends what you want out of a car,that 993 would run rings around any 964,it is a 993rscs on steriods and better.
I was in it as we drove back from the ring in light snow; it was my friend’s car. The absence of a proper heater and well used cup tyres made it something of an “experience”. We’d broken the RS and so had to unload the RSR from the truck to have a car to drive back in. Happy days - the photos are on my wall.
I remember now,i thought it was funny my end!3 of us got caught out with heavy snow at the ring in our 993gt2,s,at least we had a heater, but fat tyres were hideous and had to get towed out of the hotel to be on our very cautious waysmile

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,427 posts

48 months

Friday 19th March 2021
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It’ll be interesting to see where this little number gets to tonight.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1990-porsche-9...

RSVP911

8,192 posts

132 months

Friday 19th March 2021
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GT3Manthey said:
It’ll be interesting to see where this little number gets to tonight.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1990-porsche-9...
See it’s on “Buy it Now” at £k136 - do you know where the bidding got to ?

Thanks smile

Andyoz

2,887 posts

53 months

Friday 19th March 2021
quotequote all
RSVP911 said:
GT3Manthey said:
It’ll be interesting to see where this little number gets to tonight.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1990-porsche-9...
See it’s on “Buy it Now” at £k136 - do you know where the bidding got to ?

Thanks smile
Last bid I saw was about £110k. Big shortfall from £136k...

Cheib

23,111 posts

174 months

Saturday 20th March 2021
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Given the shocking paint and replacement doors it doesn’t surprise me that it hasn’t sold.

When it was first up at RPM I had a look at it....they wanted £165k with aftermarket split rims and without the original steering wheel....original wheels were available for £10k IIRC. Car was then offered for £155k with the OEM wheels and steering wheel, told them it was still way too high given the paint. Now it’s gone through auction with a reserve set too high by the look of it.

Effectively the owner started off trying to get £175k. Now it’s struggling to find a home for £40k less. How not to sell a car.

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,427 posts

48 months

Saturday 20th March 2021
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Given the shocking paint and replacement doors it doesn’t surprise me that it hasn’t sold.

When it was first up at RPM I had a look at it....they wanted £165k with aftermarket split rims and without the original steering wheel....original wheels were available for £10k IIRC. Car was then offered for £155k with the OEM wheels and steering wheel, told them it was still way too high given the paint. Now it’s gone through auction with a reserve set too high by the look of it.

Effectively the owner started off trying to get £175k. Now it’s struggling to find a home for £40k less. How not to sell a car.
I got called away with around 10mins left and saw it at 105k so didn’t see where it ended up.

Interesting to know a little more of the cars past.

I guess it just highlights if you want the next example like RSVP911’s then you pay up

RSVP911

8,192 posts

132 months

Saturday 20th March 2021
quotequote all
GT3Manthey said:
Cheib said:
Given the shocking paint and replacement doors it doesn’t surprise me that it hasn’t sold.

When it was first up at RPM I had a look at it....they wanted £165k with aftermarket split rims and without the original steering wheel....original wheels were available for £10k IIRC. Car was then offered for £155k with the OEM wheels and steering wheel, told them it was still way too high given the paint. Now it’s gone through auction with a reserve set too high by the look of it.

Effectively the owner started off trying to get £175k. Now it’s struggling to find a home for £40k less. How not to sell a car.
I got called away with around 10mins left and saw it at 105k so didn’t see where it ended up.

Interesting to know a little more of the cars past.

I guess it just highlights if you want the next example like RSVP911’s then you pay up
Took me 18 months to find the “right” car, I saw so many that for me, weren’t right - but then again I’m very picky.

Hopefully the owner will find the right buyer and both parties will be happy with the deal.

Great cars smile



ras62

1,086 posts

155 months

Saturday 20th March 2021
quotequote all
Bidding went to £111,500 plus fees so quite a way short of the current buy price.

RSVP911

8,192 posts

132 months

Saturday 20th March 2021
quotequote all
ras62 said:
Bidding went to £111,500 plus fees so quite a way short of the current buy price.
Ok thanks for letting me know .

Sifly

570 posts

177 months

Monday 22nd March 2021
quotequote all
Cheib said:
I think the answer is that a lot of the cars advertised online like the cars that are at Sports Purpose, Hexagon etc in the £175k to £200k bracket just aren't selling. The Hexagon car must have been there for 18 months.

Cars need to be have have very good original condition (not painted), be a very desirable colour and/or be low mileage to get good money...and. of course, have a good history.

A nice clean RS with normal miles in say Red or Silver is I think a £150k car. RSVP's was exceptional condition and PTS. The Cheshire Sport Classics car was higher mileage and had been used properly and was at the stage where it needed painting. JZM sold a red one one last year which had been painted for £150k and RPM had one advertised for £155k which desperately needed painting and I don't think sold.

This Silver car that is now at Ashgood went through Silverstone Auctions last year and failed to sell with a high bid of £120k (Ashgood say in their description it sold so maybe it did after the fact but normally the auction house would claim the sale for their stats)

https://cms.silverstoneauctions.com/events/2020-au...

So it's been through two auctions in the last 12 months failed to sell at both and is now on sale at it's second dealer.
That's interesting, did you view the Cheshire Sport Classics RS to know the car in such detail? I gather the first person to view the car purchased it scratchchin


Edited by Sifly on Tuesday 23 March 10:28

ChrisW.

6,210 posts

254 months

Monday 22nd March 2021
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We know he didn't ... he didn't respond to my earlier reply.

The last time I saw that poster he was on his roof ?

Cheib

23,111 posts

174 months

Monday 22nd March 2021
quotequote all
Sifly said:
That,s interesting, did you view the Cheshire Sport Classics RS to know the car in such detail? I gather the first person to view the car purchased it scratchchin
You don’t have to view the car to know a lot of detail about it. I’ve got a detailed e-mail trail about the car if that helps.


domster

8,431 posts

269 months

Tuesday 23rd March 2021
quotequote all
The spread on all these collectible Porsches is surely at least 100%.

Low miles, original paint, perfect paperwork - 200k.

High miles, used hard, paint, non-original bits - 100k.

Anything non-matching numbers etc but a true chassis number, sub 100k.

I can remember being incredulous 15 or so years ago when a very canny customer at the indie I worked at stripped his 993GT2 of all the nice KW suspension, Pagid yellows etc. and replaced them with the standard Porsche original parts as it seemed a step down at the time. And I hated the overly large steering wheel of my 964RS and got rid of that for a much nicer alcantara Momo at the first chance I had.

Now, from a value POV, you can see the customer was a genius spotting that early wave to ride and changing it all back to standard was critical and I was still living out my Max Power days.

The red one was similar to my old one, but the market speaks. Surely a 110-120k car.

ChrisW.

6,210 posts

254 months

Tuesday 23rd March 2021
quotequote all
Cheib said:
You don’t have to view the car to know a lot of detail about it. I’ve got a detailed e-mail trail about the car if that helps.
Do tell, I've known that car and it's owner since I bought my first 964RS for £35k ... the dealers know their stuff and to my knowledge are completely trustworthy ... so consider the stakes raised.

For which car is your email thread ?




Cheib

23,111 posts

174 months

Tuesday 23rd March 2021
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
Cheib said:
You don’t have to view the car to know a lot of detail about it. I’ve got a detailed e-mail trail about the car if that helps.
Do tell, I've known that car and it's owner since I bought my first 964RS for £35k ... the dealers know their stuff and to my knowledge are completely trustworthy ... so consider the stakes raised.

For which car is your email thread ?
Consider the stakes raised....dear oh dear.

You and Silly are barking up the wrong tree. Go and ask the previous owner of that 964 RS if he approached anyone privately about buying the car before selling it through Cheshire Classic Cars....when he says yes you'll then know how I know about the car. He first approached me on 23rd August and told me on 17th Sep he'd given it to them to sell. Would you like his initials and the chassis number ?




Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 23 March 23:21


Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 23 March 23:22

ChrisW.

6,210 posts

254 months

Wednesday 24th March 2021
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Consider the stakes raised....dear oh dear.

You and Silly are barking up the wrong tree. Go and ask the previous owner of that 964 RS if he approached anyone privately about buying the car before selling it through Cheshire Classic Cars....when he says yes you'll then know how I know about the car. He first approached me on 23rd August and told me on 17th Sep he'd given it to them to sell. Would you like his initials and the chassis number ?




Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 23 March 23:21


Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 23 March 23:22
He is a very diligent owner and offered the car to me before he was sure if he wanted to sell it.

I have seen that car many times.

It is a very good honest car, well used and very well maintained with a good history.

Given the value of originality, I wouldn't have considered painting it. All you have seen is an email.

It is still a lovely car and it has not been painted.




Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 24th March 15:07