911 997.2 over Rev

911 997.2 over Rev

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Discussion

james moffatt

Original Poster:

7 posts

140 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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Hi I am new on here and new to buying my first Porsch 911 997.2 4s got this car and have 14 days to decide weather am keeping it or not from a garage who are selling.Ticks all boxes for me,it’s got low miles at 19.500 miles and been dry stored for 4 years. They have put it through a major Sevice and everything looks good. I took it to porcshe for an 111 point check and looks ok apart from the over Rev data. Is this somet to worry about? Am paying a premium for this car and just wanna make sure am buying the right car,but am just little confused as I don’t totally understand these over revs. Is this data somet to be alarmed by or should I just go for it. Engine sounds ok and runs. Am hoping some1 can shed a bit of light on this data sheet
Thanks





TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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Who did the report? And did they comment?

GRANTBOULTWOOD

2 posts

102 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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Take a look at 911 Virgins website that has a section on over revs

pcrawf

102 posts

125 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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Range 5 overrevs esentially mean that someone stuffed up a gearchange - for example 5th down to 2nd rather than 4th. The engine then has an unpleasant experience trying to catch up with the wheels...

As this data is easily available on 911s, people get very excited about anything over range 1 or 2, and a recent overrev may well affect your ability to sell the car, which may affect how much you want to pay for it.

I bought a 911 with a couple of range 5 overrevs, but these were very early in the car's life and I had a compression test done at Porsche Reading before I did the deal. It gave me no trouble at all over 20K plus subsequent miles, and was a great car. However, I see that with only 19K miles, on "your" car, an overrev at 480 hours is probably pretty recent.

I'd want to have a compression test done at the very least. As a previous poster mentioned, the 911Virgin site will tell you more.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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If the report is WHEN the last ignition events occurred for each range then.....

There have been more than 50 operating hours (128) since last rev 5 ignition so should be ok.
Last rev ignition in range 5 was @473hrs.... but there have since been some in rev range 1 @601hrs....

james moffatt

Original Poster:

7 posts

140 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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Thanks people,yes this got done at Porsch recently,I am paying a premium for it as it’s a low miles car,and has had the 111 check done with the report and they say everything seems ok

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Friday 9th April 2021
quotequote all
james moffatt said:
Thanks people,yes this got done at Porsche recently,I am paying a premium for it as it’s a low miles car,and has had the 111 check done with the report and they say everything seems ok
Perfect - and you have 2year warranty...try to get them to make an official note of the report at the time of purchase - obviously the report is dated anyway... and then... enjoy your Porsche.

Single digit ignition in a rev range is not calculable anyway, if you follow the formula - so likely to be an erroneous reading in any case.

Edited by TDT on Friday 9th April 13:31

james moffatt

Original Poster:

7 posts

140 months

Friday 9th April 2021
quotequote all
Sorry,I have had this check done at porcshe myself but they won’t warrant the car as it’s got range 4/5 on data sheet. So from the garage they will give me 3 months warranty. I see I miss Rev on 5. And see a lot on 4,so does that mean they have over Rev’Ed it a lot in from 4th gear,don’t quite understand

AAAndy

726 posts

251 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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james moffatt said:
Sorry,I have had this check done at porcshe myself but they won’t warrant the car as it’s got range 4/5 on data sheet. So from the garage they will give me 3 months warranty. I see I miss Rev on 5. And see a lot on 4,so does that mean they have over Rev’Ed it a lot in from 4th gear,don’t quite understand
The rev ranges are associated with the rpm figure as opposed to the gear it was in at the time. This explains it really well.......

https://911virgin.com/engine-revs/

I guess the questions you need to ask yourself are:

Would an OPC put a warranty on the car with those readings? (From what I understand, I think the answer is no, or at least not without further checks)
Would a good Porsche specialist independent dealer buy a car in with those readings? (I suspect many would not)
Will it affect you come resale time? (Yes)
And depending on the above, is the premium you are potentially paying justified? (over what the going rate is for good 997.2's at present) Or should it actually be discounted to incentivise you to accept any risk.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Friday 9th April 2021
quotequote all
james moffatt said:
Sorry,I have had this check done at porcshe myself but they won’t warrant the car as it’s got range 4/5 on data sheet. So from the garage they will give me 3 months warranty.
Ah ok.... in that case if you’re not buying from a Porsche centre that will give you 2yr warranty....why pay a premium?
If you want the car...offer a fair price.... but don’t over pay, if you have any concern about this.

james moffatt said:
I see I miss Rev on 5. And see a lot on 4,so does that mean they have over Rev’Ed it a lot in from 4th gear,don’t quite understand
The ranges are typically at which point in the rev range, the engine has had ignitions.
Typically something like this as an example..

RR1 = redline
RR2 = redline to + 200rpm
RR3 = +200-400
RR4 = +400-600
RR5 = +600-800
RR6 = 800+

The rev ranges can vary from engine to engine model to model...it’s not always 200rpm gaps...sometimes is less or more depending on the model.
Some engines had RR1 below redline....
Some earlier cars only had 2 ranges....

james moffatt

Original Poster:

7 posts

140 months

Friday 9th April 2021
quotequote all
Thanks for your inputs.So annoying as I have it in garage and ticks all the boxes what Av been looking for,low mileage clean,a lot of good extras and then the over data let’s it down at the end,what a shame. Like u say I might struggle to sell just because of the data,which worries me,gutted,feeling like am gonna have to give it back 🤦‍♂️

jetbox

218 posts

160 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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I must ask why it is in your garage if you have not bought it yet? Did they offer an extended test drive?

Bp8575

81 posts

86 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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What’s odd about your reading is that you’ve got fewer ignition counts in range 3 (11) than you have in range 4 (94) with both at the same time stamp. I was told this is not possible and is a recording an error.

If you make a “money shift” and go from 5th to 2nd, say, it’s my understanding your engine will have been forced to “over rev” up through the ranges and then it would fall back through the ranges. So that means that it should be impossible to have more ignitions in range 4 than in range 3.


Edited by Bp8575 on Friday 9th April 22:44

Pope

2,633 posts

246 months

Friday 9th April 2021
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PM me the VIN if you like I can have a look and see if the record is 'implausible' or not.




jimmy p

960 posts

165 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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Got to say for me what I understand about rr this doesn't look right, with so few in range 2 you shouldn't really have any in 3 and above.

Pope however is far more qualified than me so see what he suggests

Discombobulate

4,792 posts

185 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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Bp8575 said:
What’s odd about your reading is that you’ve got fewer ignition counts in range 3 (11) than you have in range 4 (94) with both at the same time stamp. I was told this is not possible and is a recording an error.

If you make a “money shift” and go from 5th to 2nd, say, it’s my understanding your engine will have been forced to “over rev” up through the ranges and then it would fall back through the ranges. So that means that it should be impossible to have more ignitions in range 4 than in range 3.


Edited by Bp8575 on Friday 9th April 22:44
This.
Take Pope up on his kind offer.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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I think the main issue is Porsche won't warranty the car now and I suspect never will, yes it is low miles but the inability to get the gold standard warranty on it for me does affect value. I wonder if other 3rd party warranty policies would take a similar view.

The 3 month warranty from the dealer when it comes to the cost of repairing Porsches is probably not worth the paper it is printed on so it is near enough a private sale in my book with all the risks that has.

I don't think the car is worth a premium for low mileage, quite the opposite IMHO.

Bp8575

81 posts

86 months

Wednesday 14th April 2021
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Interested to know what the outcome of this was, was it an error in the over rev logging?

james moffatt

Original Poster:

7 posts

140 months

Thursday 15th April 2021
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Thanks for all your input guys,spoke to a few knowledgeable people on this,and said this could be an error on 5 and might not be a true recording. Porcshe seem to shoot there self in foot with the recording data as a lot of other manufacturers don’t have this Ecu stored data and if they did there probably be a lot of cars with all sort of readings. So decided to keep car and enjoy it and not let it spoil my experience of my first porcshe. After all was over 100 hours ago if it did happen. So am just gonna go for it and enjoy. Thanks again people really appreciate your input

Bp8575

81 posts

86 months

Thursday 15th April 2021
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Good result, enjoy! The ex Porsche tech that told me about the error readings also said that in the cases where there was an error they still added a warranty to cars, so it might be worth ringing a few OPCs to check as I’m guessing it’s at the discretion of the OPC