After a 997 - advice?

After a 997 - advice?

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Discussion

Cochyn

Original Poster:

197 posts

218 months

Thursday 15th April 2021
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Hiya guys, I've been toying with the idea of a Porsche for a long time. Love my car, very unique and extremely fun https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... but fancy a 997. It won't be in regular use, mostly for European and Ring trips like I use the Focus really.

I don't really like the 996 headlights, but settled on the idea of a 997 with an aero kit. But apart from checking if the IMS bearing has been changed, what engines are the most reliable, any rust issues I need to look out for, water pipe issues etc.

Give me your wealth of knowledge guys.

Cheers,

Al

olv

343 posts

214 months

Friday 16th April 2021
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From my own research when I was buying a year ago and for the sake of this I am ignoring rebuilt cars, the safest (and I use that word lightly) 997.1 is a 3.6 with the larger IMS bearing that was sometime in late 2005. Risk of scoring is lower than the 3.8 and bearing failure is low. That was where I landed in terms of risk and I found a car that had been really well maintained, with frequent oil changes.

A rebuilt 3.8 would be a fantastic thing but there’s a definite premium for good cars with reputable rebuilds. 997.2s start low £30ks so if you’re getting up to that end I’d pay the extra for a Gen 2.

ArchiesDad

169 posts

45 months

Friday 16th April 2021
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As above, a 3.6 Manual later IMS bearing. There’s a line in the sand and anything after that engine number is generally accepted as larger bearing type. Manual because the Auto box is genuinely woefull ! That and there’s some generalised thinking that the torque helps contribute to Bore Scoring as they set off in second, even from cold !

Personally I’m not a fan of the headlights either too Boxster and not 911 enough for my requirements. It’s also said that the interior in the 996 is much more ergonomic and tasteful than the 997. Again just like the headlights... each to their own.

The only advice I can give with regards to Aero kit is that it really makes the 997.1 stand out from the none Aero kitted cars.
Expect to pay a hefty premium over and above the none Aero cars. Also make sure it’s a genuine pattern part not an aftermarket copy. Under the rear hood you’ll see the manufacturers markings, usual date stamps and the tell tale P in the triangle that denotes Porsche factory fitted item.

Arm yourself with as much info as is humanly possible and then you won’t be surprised by any of the cost involved in Porsche Ownership.


leegrear

28 posts

68 months

Friday 23rd April 2021
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Now in my 3rd year of ownership of 997.1 A 3.8 that had a full Hartech rebuild just before i purchased. Has given me nothing but pleasure. I have a good Porsche indi looking after it with regular servicing. If you can find a Hartech rebuild one with a FULL REBUILD then go for it as its a great car with the certainty of the engine not giving you worries.

panholio

1,078 posts

147 months

Tuesday 27th April 2021
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I'm also debating a 997, in the treacherous £25-£30k area.

Few things I have noticed:
Prices seem all over the show
Many cars have had 5+ owners - although I expected this
MOT history is interesting - three cars currently on AT have had "oil leak" noted on their MOT for several years. Owners not bothered? I'm not sure I could drive a car with a oil leak for years, no matter how minor and it of course suggests RMS problems. There are also cars with very suspect mileage, get to 50k and then go up three miles a year for three years. Look clocked, but lockdown etc. has clearly impacted people's use.
Loads of red ones and I don't want a red one... ha

I'd like one, but the scarcity of quality is making me wonder whether an M4 or even a C63 of similar value would be an easier bet. Just don't have the value holding potential which is an appeal.

Also been looking at Jag XKRs eek



nebpor

3,753 posts

234 months

Tuesday 27th April 2021
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Oil leak doesn't always suggest RMS - much more likely to be the chain tensioner washers, of which there are two, and frequently weep.

My advice. Buy a leggy car with a bag of bills over a low-miler. These cars like being driven and you want to see an owner on top of maintenance rather than wait for the annual, or even bi-annual service, to explain to a mechanic about a suspension noise / something else. I have always treated my Porsches like this and in return they've been very reliable.

RiccardoG

1,584 posts

271 months

Tuesday 27th April 2021
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Dunno about the "oil leak" advisory. Its been flagged on my other car for years now by MOT man. But in none of the services has it ever come up as an issue and its used 0 oil in 10 years outside of servicing.

Therefore I would not read too much into it.

Btw, red 997s rock! Wish I had bought mine Guards red (but am v. happy with Cobalt Blue).

Rossco196x

136 posts

73 months

Thursday 29th April 2021
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Theres plenty of advice hear that i ignored and bought a 3.8 c2s with 63k miles on it. After a few months of owning the tapping started and to cut a long story short a full rebuild at Hartech and £12k + the car runs very well again.............

My advice is keep well away from any 997 Gen 1 car unless it has a full rebuild thats fully documented by Hartech. Grant is great and can verify they carried out the work. Getting a proper inspection including any over revs info even if its been rebuilt is money well spent IMHO.

Other issues with the 997 include corrosion to the Rads and aircon pipework, oil scavenge pump corrosion and knackers suspension bushes and shocks so a fully documented history is worth looking for.

The turbo engine internals doesn't suffer mechanically to the same extent unless abused.

Gen 2 is also a good option but these are not totally bullet proof as some others may claim.

Good luck !

PS: Make sure its a manual !

ATM

18,085 posts

218 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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Who gives a F about headlights?

The big concern with the 997 is the engine going T up. Everyone and I mean everyone knows this. Most of the comments in this little thread mention engine related stuff. So let's talk about engines first. All the 6 cylinder boxer engines in all Porsche cars from 1997 to 2008 are basically the same with just different displacement. And they all have the same weak points. The biggest and scariest problems are IMS and Bore scoring. If you really want a 911 then the least risky engine is the very early 3.4 from the very early 996 because it used a different piston coating which is less prone to bore scoring. And it's only a 3.4 so it's the smallest engine in a 911. That means a bit less heat, less force produced at low revs and thicker material between the bores.

But the big difference is the piston coating used. I believe this piston coating changed during the production of the 3.4 so you need an earlier car from 97, 98 and maybe 99. You maybe get lucky with 2000 but I'm not sure.

This is why the early 3.4 engine is the least likely to score and therefore best bet against going T up.

So this is just what I've learned studying up on them and reading these forums. None of the above apples to the GT1 derived engine in the turbo and gt3 as it is a different engine.

So based on the above I started thinking about an earlier 996. The good news doesn't end there. They are the cheapest 911 you can buy. They are also the lightest. They are also the simplest. So what more do you need to know.

I bought one to see what it was like. I deliberately bought one at the lower end of the market thinking if it was rubbish or I didn't get it then I would sell it on. Now I can't imagine selling it. I might, might consider it if I bought a nicer one but I just don't know if that will ever happen.

I use mine as a daily driver most of the time. That doesn't mean much as I can go 3 or 4 days without even driving at all. My car lives outside, it has rusty spots poking through and a few battle scars, dinks, scrapes and scratches. Some people might say it's a turd.

But it feels great to drive and that's why I love it. If you have never driven one of these cars it is hard to explain in words just how good the steering feel is without using lots of cheesy clichés. It is brilliant. And then you have the whole rear engine weight distribution thing to get your head around. This makes the driving experience totally unique too.

There is so much good news with all of these 911 cars that any will feel good if they are right. Which brings us onto the bad news and that's all about the stuff which will break or tire and need replacing if you want to enjoy the car at it's best because these cars feel so much better at their best. This is the same for all 996 and 997 cars and also the boxsters and caymans too.

First up suspension needs to be tip top. If you change everything that's all arms and dampers and bushes and everything everything everything then you basically have a new car suspension wise. Next in no particular order is the clutch including the bits and pieces connecting the pedal to the clutch itself. Then the gears, so the lever, gear cables and the Box itself. Through all my research I didn't realise the box was a known weak point and mine went pop. Used gearboxes sell for 2500 and Porsche charge 10000 for a new one. More and more cars are having gearbox rebuilds now as the bearings inside are all rubbish and the 2nd gear synchro tends to go. Mine fell apart inside in a much more dramatic fashion and had to be replaced. Then you have all the rads, condensers and all the pipes and tubes connecting these with coolant and also those for brake fluid and power steering. Anyone who knows these cars well will tell you they can eat money at a rapid rate once you start.

I threw lots of money at my car in the first 2 years but in the last 2 it's cost me basically nothing.

Now let's talk about the headlamps. If you don't like them you don't like them. OK fine. Understood. I'm not saying I love them but the original headlamps are derived from the gt1 race car which is a good looking car.

If.you can't live with them then you will just have to buy a 997. But you're totally missing the point if you choose your 911 based on its headlamps.

That's just what I think, obviously.



67Dino

3,581 posts

104 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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I’ve had two 996s and a 997. I much preferred the 996s.

The 997 is a great looking car, the interior is a lot nicer (the 996 is very much the same as the early Boxster), and it feels bigger and more modern. However it isn’t nearly as distinctive to drive. If you want the 911 experience you’ll get more of it from a 996. Mind you, neither is a patch on the 964.

If it really is just the headlights, there are always various conversion options…



Louis Balfour

26,271 posts

221 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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67Dino said:
I’ve had two 996s and a 997. I much preferred the 996s.

The 997 is a great looking car, the interior is a lot nicer (the 996 is very much the same as the early Boxster), and it feels bigger and more modern. However it isn’t nearly as distinctive to drive. If you want the 911 experience you’ll get more of it from a 996. Mind you, neither is a patch on the 964.

If it really is just the headlights, there are always various conversion options…


That looks a lot better. The 996 still has a sort of well-used bar of soap quality, however, like it needs more definition.

ATM

18,085 posts

218 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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I'm getting into the realms of seriously geeky now but here goes...

My car came with 18 inch wheels. I changed them to 17 and it improved the steering feel a lot. Kept it like that for a few years then recently added 15mm spacers on each front wheel. The steering feel has changed a lot. It's much more weighty now where as it used to dance around a lot more. It feels a lot heavier where as it was super delicate before.

I know the 997 is basically the same car but with with wider track. I'm not sure how they widened the front track but if they basically spaced out the hub after the pivot then it is in effect the same as just adding spacers. I had my 997 over 10 years ago so it's hard for me to compare but it could be similar. I'll do some more digging.

I don't particularly like this new feel so I'll probably remove the spacers. I am just trying it for a while to see if there is anything else I notice before and after. That's why I'm curious how the 997 achieved its wider track.

IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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If heart set on 997 buy the 911 you want but you'll be hard pushed as general rule of thumb to buy a better sports car than a 996 C2.

997 3.6 C2 the most reliable gen 1.

Louis Balfour

26,271 posts

221 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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IMI A said:
If heart set on 997 buy the 911 you want but you'll be hard pushed as general rule of thumb to buy a better sports car than a 996 C2.

997 3.6 C2 the most reliable gen 1.
My choice would be a 997 Gen 2, either Carrera or Carrera S. Better still, a GTS if it is within budget.

ATM

18,085 posts

218 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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3.6
Hartech - not sure how extensive
Manual
2006

£22500

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333985521008





panholio

1,078 posts

147 months

Monday 10th May 2021
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Just to continue with my fetish for looking at MOT histories...

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.198331...

2015-2017 interesting gap and very little mileage.

I seem to never find cars that do a nice consistent 5/6k per year.

ATM

18,085 posts

218 months

Monday 10th May 2021
quotequote all
panholio said:
Just to continue with my fetish for looking at MOT histories...

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.198331...

2015-2017 interesting gap and very little mileage.

I seem to never find cars that do a nice consistent 5/6k per year.
Linky no worky

I think inks to MOT history dont work.

panholio

1,078 posts

147 months

Monday 10th May 2021
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You're right - just need to put reg plate in.

ATM

18,085 posts

218 months

Monday 10th May 2021
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Mileage looks OK on that blue one I posted above?