Are 997 gen 1 / gen 2s over priced?
Discussion
RemarkLima said:
Tobermory said:
On mine there's a sports button (with an icon like a shock absorber) and a separate button marked 'PSM off', which when you press it the message 'PSM off' comes upon the multifunction display. I'm not sure if this comes as standard on all 997.1 C2S's though
Gotta love porsche acronyms! PSM is Porsche Stability Management, so traction control.The damper symbol is PASM, Porsche Active Suspension Management.
All cars (997) have PSM, but only PASM equipped cars have the damper button.
The sport button should, reduce the amount of intervention from the PSM (stability management), change the throttle map and stiffen the PASM if equipped. The damper button just changes the PASM on it's own.
But given we have PASM, PSM, PCM, and no doubt a load more, they all sound too much the same!
Tobermory said:
RemarkLima said:
Tobermory said:
On mine there's a sports button (with an icon like a shock absorber) and a separate button marked 'PSM off', which when you press it the message 'PSM off' comes upon the multifunction display. I'm not sure if this comes as standard on all 997.1 C2S's though
Gotta love porsche acronyms! PSM is Porsche Stability Management, so traction control.The damper symbol is PASM, Porsche Active Suspension Management.
All cars (997) have PSM, but only PASM equipped cars have the damper button.
The sport button should, reduce the amount of intervention from the PSM (stability management), change the throttle map and stiffen the PASM if equipped. The damper button just changes the PASM on it's own.
But given we have PASM, PSM, PCM, and no doubt a load more, they all sound too much the same!
Ah yes, sport chrono, pointless but different... There was a chap who hooked up a Arduino to the Canbus network to have a little display there, about the most useful thing going for it!
Oh, and there's PSE, Porsche Sport Exhaust, which will give some cars a little exhaust button, but I think some cars it's linked to the sport button.
As an update, just did a very wet day at Brands Hatch and the car (997.1 C2S) was bang on, remarkable for a 17 year old one... Used a little oil, which next oil change will try the Millers 10w50, as it'll hopefully not burn any. Let's see
Oh, and there's PSE, Porsche Sport Exhaust, which will give some cars a little exhaust button, but I think some cars it's linked to the sport button.
As an update, just did a very wet day at Brands Hatch and the car (997.1 C2S) was bang on, remarkable for a 17 year old one... Used a little oil, which next oil change will try the Millers 10w50, as it'll hopefully not burn any. Let's see
RemarkLima said:
Ah yes, sport chrono, pointless but different... There was a chap who hooked up a Arduino to the Canbus network to have a little display there, about the most useful thing going for it!
Oh, and there's PSE, Porsche Sport Exhaust, which will give some cars a little exhaust button, but I think some cars it's linked to the sport button.
As an update, just did a very wet day at Brands Hatch and the car (997.1 C2S) was bang on, remarkable for a 17 year old one... Used a little oil, which next oil change will try the Millers 10w50, as it'll hopefully not burn any. Let's see
PSE is essential! Oh, and there's PSE, Porsche Sport Exhaust, which will give some cars a little exhaust button, but I think some cars it's linked to the sport button.
As an update, just did a very wet day at Brands Hatch and the car (997.1 C2S) was bang on, remarkable for a 17 year old one... Used a little oil, which next oil change will try the Millers 10w50, as it'll hopefully not burn any. Let's see
ATM said:
Shouldn't make any difference to oil consumption I dont think. One of my friends thinks switching from Millers 10w50 to a thinner oil will reduce his oil consumption. So I think you can make any argument as far as oil consumption goes but it is probably just consistent.
Maybe, just going from my old Lotus Exige, going to a motorsport 10w60 stopped all oil consumption, whilst before I'd do at least a litre per track day, as a minimum. My thinking that a thicker oil at operating temp wouldn't pass the piston rings as easily when going full beans? Interestingly, porsche themselves have released a classic 10w50 oil for the 996, so the same basic engine as the 997.1, which does imply that a 10w50 is a good thing for the older engines at higher miles? Maybe?
S600BSB said:
PSE is essential!
Or a gundo hack for permanent PSE noises! I find that turning the PASM in sport mode on C2S provides a very predictable handling style on fast B roads. On good tyres there's no real difference between the 997 and 991 on B roads. The larger glass area and slightly narrower body lets you judge overtaking and gaps better, the 991 will leave it on the dual carraigeway though as the road opens out.
magic Monkey Dust said:
I find that turning the PASM in sport mode on C2S provides a very predictable handling style on fast B roads. On good tyres there's no real difference between the 997 and 991 on B roads. The larger glass area and slightly narrower body lets you judge overtaking and gaps better, the 991 will leave it on the dual carraigeway though as the road opens out.
Are you comparing 997 PASM in gen 1 or gen 2?I had a 997 C2S gen 1 in 2005. I wont bore you all with my long story [again]. I will give you a couple of the pics or just 1 [again]. Anyway .... I found the PASM in stiff mode a bit too stiff and the soft mode a bit too soft. But this was 2005 and I was using factory spec Pirelli N rated tyres which were probably absolute rubbish. I would not say it was not predictable because it was predictable in that it had immense grip. The car had so much grip I found it impossible to get the car out of shape ever if is was over 7 degrees C and my tyres were not past their best. I did get some PSM orange light flickering once the rears got a bit worn. Most scariest moment was the first time I noticed the light flickering as I was at high revs in 3rd with WOT on a long sweeping bend in cool, damp, dark and rainy conditions. Changed the rear tyres immediately after that. Obviously this was a private race track because max revs in 3rd is around 99mph.
PASM in a gen 1.
Its not subjective but i feel the car has the best driving focus i have experienced in a 911. The 991 isn't for me for lots of reasons most of which are minor and personal, but on the same roads the gen ! 997 comes alive and has a great balance with out being scary. My wife changed to Bridgestone's from Michelins while i was out of the country and i'm jury out for those.
I was lucky enough to own a 964 Rs for a couple of years as a daily and the 997.1 is a better companion under most circumstances excepting noise and er....actually loads of things were better in the 964 but i can get most of the same thrills with it in PASM sport without feeling i miss some of the older cars.
Its not subjective but i feel the car has the best driving focus i have experienced in a 911. The 991 isn't for me for lots of reasons most of which are minor and personal, but on the same roads the gen ! 997 comes alive and has a great balance with out being scary. My wife changed to Bridgestone's from Michelins while i was out of the country and i'm jury out for those.
I was lucky enough to own a 964 Rs for a couple of years as a daily and the 997.1 is a better companion under most circumstances excepting noise and er....actually loads of things were better in the 964 but i can get most of the same thrills with it in PASM sport without feeling i miss some of the older cars.
magic Monkey Dust said:
I find that turning the PASM in sport mode on C2S provides a very predictable handling style on fast B roads. On good tyres there's no real difference between the 997 and 991 on B roads. The larger glass area and slightly narrower body lets you judge overtaking and gaps better, the 991 will leave it on the dual carraigeway though as the road opens out.
Really ? Like most 997.1 owners I found sport setting unusable. And then I fitted DSC module and, well, the rest is history. Great enhancement.ATM said:
Are you comparing 997 PASM in gen 1 or gen 2?
I had a 997 C2S gen 1 in 2005. I wont bore you all with my long story [again]. I will give you a couple of the pics or just 1 [again]. Anyway .... I found the PASM in stiff mode a bit too stiff and the soft mode a bit too soft. But this was 2005 and I was using factory spec Pirelli N rated tyres which were probably absolute rubbish. I would not say it was not predictable because it was predictable in that it had immense grip. The car had so much grip I found it impossible to get the car out of shape ever if is was over 7 degrees C and my tyres were not past their best. I did get some PSM orange light flickering once the rears got a bit worn. Most scariest moment was the first time I noticed the light flickering as I was at high revs in 3rd with WOT on a long sweeping bend in cool, damp, dark and rainy conditions. Changed the rear tyres immediately after that. Obviously this was a private race track because max revs in 3rd is around 99mph.
The PASM light flickering wouldn't have concerned me half as much as the thought that my windscreen was about to implode...I had a 997 C2S gen 1 in 2005. I wont bore you all with my long story [again]. I will give you a couple of the pics or just 1 [again]. Anyway .... I found the PASM in stiff mode a bit too stiff and the soft mode a bit too soft. But this was 2005 and I was using factory spec Pirelli N rated tyres which were probably absolute rubbish. I would not say it was not predictable because it was predictable in that it had immense grip. The car had so much grip I found it impossible to get the car out of shape ever if is was over 7 degrees C and my tyres were not past their best. I did get some PSM orange light flickering once the rears got a bit worn. Most scariest moment was the first time I noticed the light flickering as I was at high revs in 3rd with WOT on a long sweeping bend in cool, damp, dark and rainy conditions. Changed the rear tyres immediately after that. Obviously this was a private race track because max revs in 3rd is around 99mph.
Discombobulate said:
Really ? Like most 997.1 owners I found sport setting unusable. And then I fitted DSC module and, well, the rest is history. Great enhancement.
I can't really complain about ride quality compared to some of the other 911's I've owned the 997 in PASM is a bit like a magic carpet ride. But yes there are numerous occasions in a journey when it could be improved , not sure if it's mapping or the light weight of the vehicle comparatively to the grip . The 595 we have is a good back road car and can travel fairly quick but it doesn't offer any better ride quality over the same roads. Possibly the Abarth seat is slightly better stuffed so gives a tiny bit more bounce to your bum. I kind of like the flaw's in the 997, a bit like a classic , there's no reason to drive one when you could have a new \fiesta for the same money. Except that's not how we weigh up the purchase.The 997.1 is just terrific all round value for the money. There isn't a singe aspect of the Fiat that comes close in terms of build quality or finish and a 997 can be had for the same money as a new Abarth. i know where my money would go if i lived anywhere outside a city centre .
Just as another datapoint, on my .1 I never switch on Sport on the PASM. The only exception is when on Swiss mountain passes, which tend to be smooth. The benefit I note is sharper turn-in. On any other roads I just find it too bumpy and annoying, makes me car sick.
In general I dislike PASM as it seems to me a complication for no benefit. In fact, these days I'd seek out a non S model for this (tho, hard to balance against not having red calipers!). Other point, when it comes to suspension refresh its around 50% for non PASM dampers, making them a bit of a bargain in terms of bang for buck. Suspension on a 911 always needs to be fresh.
In general I dislike PASM as it seems to me a complication for no benefit. In fact, these days I'd seek out a non S model for this (tho, hard to balance against not having red calipers!). Other point, when it comes to suspension refresh its around 50% for non PASM dampers, making them a bit of a bargain in terms of bang for buck. Suspension on a 911 always needs to be fresh.
Da Original Whyayedee said:
Good morning Porsche fans! Well today is the day.... off to see 3!
Good luck with that, keen to hear your impressions. I hope you end up in the lucky position to chose between the best two rather than having to pass on all 3.
RiccardoG said:
Good luck with that, keen to hear your impressions. I hope you end up in the lucky position to chose between the best two rather than having to pass on all 3.
I did, I went with this one 997.1Engine rebuilt by Hartech 7000 miles ago,Ok, not all 6 Cylinders but after speaking to Hartech who have been brilliant with advice and phonically in my search determined this was not a 100% full proof bet, but a pretty strong option. Not seen a midnight blue car in the flesh before but even on a really dank day like today and a max of 4 degrees it looked and drove absolutely superb, which is probably testament to a good car.
Few jobs being undertaken on it (New discs and pads all round, rear brake lines, and front crossover coolant pipes replaced) before picking it up next week on my 40th. Taking my dad along to who's dream it was to have a 911, unfortunately a dream that has passed him by now. He doesn't know I have bought it, he just thinks we're going to look at some nice cars for the day, I have insured him on it too. Hopefully the plan all comes together.
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