Are we on the verge of a big price crash on GT cars?
Discussion
I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.*
Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times.
A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching.
Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much.
Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times.
A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching.
Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much.
Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09
finmac said:
I always tend to look at the bigger picture with these type of things. While 90 newer GT4 sounds like a lot of cars for sale, if this is observed against the UK population it maybe gives a different perspective. At 67M people it means there are 1.3 GT4s for sale per 1M people. Hardly sounds like a massive number in that context - to me anyway!
As many have said, Seasonal factors at play as much as anything here, I’d be very surprised if things don’t pick up by end March as spring and new track season etc approaches.
Need to consider it against the number of GT4s in the UK. If that is a large proportion, then it is significant.As many have said, Seasonal factors at play as much as anything here, I’d be very surprised if things don’t pick up by end March as spring and new track season etc approaches.
findtomdotcom said:
Yep, it's happening and to the 992 GT3 too. So far I managed to negate a far amount off a 1000 mile car with fantastic spec. Ultimately I decided against it due to the very high cost of borrowing, I had a really large deposit too. I think this will be the main reason all cars are going to fall in price next year...
Interesting, another person openly saying they are not progressing with a porsche porsche due cost of borrow and fear of values dropping. A work colleague did the same thing this week with a new car order he’s had a deposit down since last year and this chap is a proper car but and porsche fan. The farther inlaw has also just sold his Macan T this week as he can see prices falling and it’s a second car he doesn’t really need at the moment.
Seems that this discussion and the GT3 Prices going up discussions are going in the same direction.
In summary: would seem that prices / overs are going down due to increasingly expensive finance and people's ability to pay via finance / cash. Plus Porsche building more GT cars than ever.
As in other sectors of the market, those who're very leveraged are really feeling it vs those who're cash buyers and long term enthusiasts.
So - if you want a GT3 to actually drive this may be a good time to buy, or if you want to risk it wait for 12 months until winter next year you may or may not get a better deal. Otherwise if you're an owner then keep your car and enjoy it or sell now / wait until Spring if you really have to unload it.
In summary: would seem that prices / overs are going down due to increasingly expensive finance and people's ability to pay via finance / cash. Plus Porsche building more GT cars than ever.
As in other sectors of the market, those who're very leveraged are really feeling it vs those who're cash buyers and long term enthusiasts.
So - if you want a GT3 to actually drive this may be a good time to buy, or if you want to risk it wait for 12 months until winter next year you may or may not get a better deal. Otherwise if you're an owner then keep your car and enjoy it or sell now / wait until Spring if you really have to unload it.
bencollins4 said:
Nice looking white 992 GT3 (21 plate, 3k miles) only got bid to £181,500 tonight on Collecting cars so was unsold. Even at £187,500 including CC fee it would be the cheapest for sale by a good chunk. Not the time of year to put your car in to an auction though, surely?!
Not the right time of the World Cup fixtures to put your car in to an auction that ends during a big game. Any other night it would have sold.julian987R said:
Not the right time of the World Cup fixtures to put your car in to an auction that ends during a big game. Any other night it would have sold.
No it wouldn't. The market speaks volumes.Impossible to relist that car now as a 'story car'....deal will have been done behind scenes probably.
LucasA said:
I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.*
Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times.
A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching.
Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much.
Despite demand falling by some degree I would not be too worried about 911 sales as they are increasingly less relevant and people will always want to have a last of line ICE sports car. As a manufacturer or dealer I would be more worried about shifting mainstream but special ICE cars such as the Type R as Kia, Tesla etc BEVs are making them look slow and then the battery SUVs which are meant to replace medium/top end family cars. The price premium being asked by Audi, Merc, Volvo etc might be justified by input costs but it is not justified by buyers’ ability to fund. It’s going to be a fun few years and, frankly, it is about time automotive margins reversed. The Porsche IPO might be a visionary thing but with the amount of Macans sold on PCP I’m not sure.Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times.
A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching.
Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much.
Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09
Edited by EC2 on Monday 5th December 13:58
EC2 said:
Despite demand falling by some degree I would not be too worried about 911 sales as they are increasingly less relevant and people will always want to have a last of line ICE sports car. As a manufacturer or dealer I would be more worried about shifting mainstream but special ICE cars such as the Type R as Kia, Tesla etc BEVs are making them look slow and then the battery SUVs which are meant to replace medium/top end family cars. The price premium being asked by Audi, Merc, Volvo etc might be justified by input costs but it is not justified by buyers’ ability to fund. It’s going to be a fun few years and, frankly, it is about time automotive margins reversed. The Porsche IPO might be a visionary thing but with the amount of Macans sold on PCP I’m not sure.
We definitely have an interesting few years ahead of us. Lets put it this way, if you'd asked people in 2019 to predict the future of car prices they'd all have been wrong. Yes, a major event happened during that time but that's actually what normally happens when people make predictions they think are dead certainties. They generally get it wrong...Edited by EC2 on Monday 5th December 13:58
LucasA said:
I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.*
Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times.
A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching.
Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much.
I love the way you said looks great value against the Civic. Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times.
A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching.
Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much.
Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09
GT4RS said:
Interesting, another person openly saying they are not progressing with a porsche porsche due cost of borrow and fear of values dropping.
A work colleague did the same thing this week with a new car order he’s had a deposit down since last year and this chap is a proper car but and porsche fan. The farther inlaw has also just sold his Macan T this week as he can see prices falling and it’s a second car he doesn’t really need at the moment.
Yeah ive done that too with my Macan gts on order, ok it third quarter of 2023 , but had a few signs that i could be affected over the next couple of years so decided to hold fire .A work colleague did the same thing this week with a new car order he’s had a deposit down since last year and this chap is a proper car but and porsche fan. The farther inlaw has also just sold his Macan T this week as he can see prices falling and it’s a second car he doesn’t really need at the moment.
Andyoz said:
We definitely have an interesting few years ahead of us. Lets put it this way, if you'd asked people in 2019 to predict the future of car prices they'd all have been wrong. Yes, a major event happened during that time but that's actually what normally happens when people make predictions they think are dead certainties. They generally get it wrong...
This is very different, covid made people very cash rich , not be able to spend on anything and mostly being paid full salary when not going to work left them.with huge amounts of spare cash in their pockets. This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc .
The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle.
tedblog said:
This is very different, covid made people very cash rich , not be able to spend on anything and mostly being paid full salary when not going to work left them.with huge amounts of spare cash in their pockets.
This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc .
The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle.
Yes, I know. That's my point. I called this over a year ago...This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc .
The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle.
I still don't think some here realise what this abrupt end to the post 2008 credit cycle can do to asset values.
Edited by Andyoz on Tuesday 6th December 14:11
Andyoz said:
tedblog said:
This is very different, covid made people very cash rich , not be able to spend on anything and mostly being paid full salary when not going to work left them.with huge amounts of spare cash in their pockets.
This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc .
The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle.
Yes, I know. That's my point. I called this over a year ago...This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc .
The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle.
I still don't think some here realise what this abrupt end to the post 2008 credit cycle can do to asset values.
Edited by Andyoz on Tuesday 6th December 14:11
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