Porsche and Tivs
Discussion
quote:
Whenever I go on a regular slog to Scotland from Staffs I take British Airways! Quicker than any car and a darn sight cheaper than taking a 993 or a Griff!
2xVideo projectors, laptop, screen - none of which I'd be happy putting in the baggage hold(£12k give or take, disregarding lost business if it got broken). Really I ought to have an estate - wonder if Peter would build me one ???!
993 and Tiv perhaps the answer for you GB but can I borrow the F1 when you've bought every other supercar and you're still not satisfied !
Wuss! Did a recent slog round south america, sixteen flights in two weeks, with laptop, projector, etc. Never in hold, always in cabin overhead bins. Drew the line at screen, hired em there.
Why the second projector?
I'd love to blast up to Scotland in my Griff, but driving back with the inevitable raging hangover would not be pleasant.
Why the second projector?
I'd love to blast up to Scotland in my Griff, but driving back with the inevitable raging hangover would not be pleasant.
Charming ! It's more an issue of keeping the DLP projectors alive, don't think they'd take kindly to being bounced about by airline staff. 2xlaptops as well. Use them to demonstrate the relative speeds (and qualities) of two satellite video conferencing systems. Why were you in South America ? Or shouldn't I ask...
All comments would seem to point to the same conclusions, one for everyday and one for fun. I have to mention that there was life before the c2. My car is used everyday for work, and is constantly embarrasing Cerbera's & F355 etc.., and I even managed to keep up with a Diabolo until about 135mph. What car u ask ? A modified '87 911 Turbo (Turbo 2 G-Force body), with 400 bhp+. £25,000 of car which looks and runs as good as anything short of £150,000 !!
There's your answer guys.
There's your answer guys.
Yeah, the forum has a bit of a 'C2' angle to it, partly my fault as I am a firm believer in the improvements made throughout the 90s. But then I have driven an '84 3.2 against a '90 C2 and the difference is impressive. The 3.2 is a good car, but when you can get LHD C2s for almost ten grand these days, why look at an earlier Porsche if you can afford a later one?
I must admit to loving the 'Turbo 1', and it is undeniably brilliant value. I do hanker after a Turbo 2 for the looks, though (completely subjective) and like you I would like it tuned (same engine basically, so should be easy enough).
What did you have done engine wise on your Turbo 1? One bar boost spring at a guess, free flow exhaust, air filter... any more?
Cheers
Domster
I must admit to loving the 'Turbo 1', and it is undeniably brilliant value. I do hanker after a Turbo 2 for the looks, though (completely subjective) and like you I would like it tuned (same engine basically, so should be easy enough).
What did you have done engine wise on your Turbo 1? One bar boost spring at a guess, free flow exhaust, air filter... any more?
Cheers
Domster
Hey Everyone, speed here. I have a 93 RS America witch is now up to euro spec. With only 250 hp at the rear tires and fully gased weight of 2999lbs my car moves. I do track events and drive my car on the weekends. I brought the car with low miles and now it has 160,000 miles. I can tell you that a porsche is a well built car. The 964 series car is the last of the hand built cars. yes, the 993 and the 996 are larger and hold up very well under hard driving but, I would tell anybody to buy a 964. Like always, buy the best one you can. I haven't rebuilt the engine and all the checks show the engine doesn't need any work. I'm thinking of supercharging the engine but,I haven't decided yet. seeya, speedracer.
I didn't think the 993 was any larger than the 964 - it's based on the same bodyshape! Interior space is identical, and if anything, those curvy wings and sloping lights probably mean it displaces less water if you dropped it into a swimming pool ;-)
There were a number of improvements made with the 993 over the 964, and it is wise not to forget that. It has some pretty fancy suspension at the back compared to even your RS! The 996 is (of course) a different animal entirely, and is vastly superior techically but maybe lacks a little character compared to the older 911s.
You can chuck the Eaton supercharger on your C2 but I would be careful with reliability - 340 bhp is produced but I know of one that has grenaded.
There were a number of improvements made with the 993 over the 964, and it is wise not to forget that. It has some pretty fancy suspension at the back compared to even your RS! The 996 is (of course) a different animal entirely, and is vastly superior techically but maybe lacks a little character compared to the older 911s.
You can chuck the Eaton supercharger on your C2 but I would be careful with reliability - 340 bhp is produced but I know of one that has grenaded.
Hey all,
the 993 is bigger by 1-2 inches and thats when your checking from the top of the door panels. I'm only 5 foot 5 inches tall and I can touch both door panels from the drivers seat. With my friends 993 I have about 2 inches almost. As for the rear susp. Yes they changed it and the car is smoother in the way it rides but, I've done open road track days with plenty of people and they all admit that their is more fun in my car. The 964 has only five speeds and this causes more revs at all times but, its something you wouldn't notice unless you drove both cars back to back. The great thing about the 964 is that all the power is there and waiting to be set free. I know what my car has because I had a speed shop with a wheel dyno check it. I also have seen all the things that work and proved that some others don't. If you like to drive like me which means that I drive my car from New york to northern california every year at least once. I do weekend trips and road tracks. ALL my friends with turbos can't believe that my motor is doing as well as it does with the miles on it. 160,000 miles is something to think about when your buying a car to drive hard. Wtih the mods I've done,the car pulls to red line in fifth gear and its possible that the 7100 rpm fuel cutout is possible. that is fast for a stock engine and light weight car. the best thing is that it always startup and go when I ask.
seeya, speed.
the 993 is bigger by 1-2 inches and thats when your checking from the top of the door panels. I'm only 5 foot 5 inches tall and I can touch both door panels from the drivers seat. With my friends 993 I have about 2 inches almost. As for the rear susp. Yes they changed it and the car is smoother in the way it rides but, I've done open road track days with plenty of people and they all admit that their is more fun in my car. The 964 has only five speeds and this causes more revs at all times but, its something you wouldn't notice unless you drove both cars back to back. The great thing about the 964 is that all the power is there and waiting to be set free. I know what my car has because I had a speed shop with a wheel dyno check it. I also have seen all the things that work and proved that some others don't. If you like to drive like me which means that I drive my car from New york to northern california every year at least once. I do weekend trips and road tracks. ALL my friends with turbos can't believe that my motor is doing as well as it does with the miles on it. 160,000 miles is something to think about when your buying a car to drive hard. Wtih the mods I've done,the car pulls to red line in fifth gear and its possible that the 7100 rpm fuel cutout is possible. that is fast for a stock engine and light weight car. the best thing is that it always startup and go when I ask.
seeya, speed.
Speed - if 993 is bigger than 964 I stand corrected.
The 964 RS is an awesome handler, you are right. The 993 had a few advances, but apart from the rear suspension and a bit more bhp these were more reliabilty based. It is also a bit more refined, I gather, but again this is not something everyone worries about.
Out of interest, what are the mods you have done to your engine, if at all? Did the American RS have less power than the euro one?
Cheers
Domster
The 964 RS is an awesome handler, you are right. The 993 had a few advances, but apart from the rear suspension and a bit more bhp these were more reliabilty based. It is also a bit more refined, I gather, but again this is not something everyone worries about.
Out of interest, what are the mods you have done to your engine, if at all? Did the American RS have less power than the euro one?
Cheers
Domster
Hey domster, this is what I've done so far.
1. lightweight clutch and flyweel swap
2. I had a chip made for my combo that is based on the rs chips that were used for cup racing.
3. I removed the primary muffler and added a bypass instead. the final muffler remains in place.
4. engines with less than 300 hp, don't need the mass air flow sensor conversion.I use the flapper type.
5. K&N filter
6. stainless steal brake lines and my car comes with C4 brakes or 4 piston all way round stock.
7. short shift kit.
8. pagid brake pads {race pads}
9. H&R spings and bilstein shocks with a complete corner balance job done bye a race prep shop.
10. front stress bar
11. 17x8 front and 17x9 cup wheels in the back
12. stock sway bars 22mm front and 20 back.
13. I removed the engine cover when I brought the car for more engine cooling and everyone has told me that this is why I have gotten so much life out of the engine. It doesn't sound like much but, some money was spent but, lots of fun have been recieved. the dyno proved that I had 250hp at the wheels and I was told by my friends at andial {porsche motorsport north america } that you will lose between 10 to 12 percent from the crank hp. hope that helps, speed.
1. lightweight clutch and flyweel swap
2. I had a chip made for my combo that is based on the rs chips that were used for cup racing.
3. I removed the primary muffler and added a bypass instead. the final muffler remains in place.
4. engines with less than 300 hp, don't need the mass air flow sensor conversion.I use the flapper type.
5. K&N filter
6. stainless steal brake lines and my car comes with C4 brakes or 4 piston all way round stock.
7. short shift kit.
8. pagid brake pads {race pads}
9. H&R spings and bilstein shocks with a complete corner balance job done bye a race prep shop.
10. front stress bar
11. 17x8 front and 17x9 cup wheels in the back
12. stock sway bars 22mm front and 20 back.
13. I removed the engine cover when I brought the car for more engine cooling and everyone has told me that this is why I have gotten so much life out of the engine. It doesn't sound like much but, some money was spent but, lots of fun have been recieved. the dyno proved that I had 250hp at the wheels and I was told by my friends at andial {porsche motorsport north america } that you will lose between 10 to 12 percent from the crank hp. hope that helps, speed.
Hey Domster, my dyno readings on a 246C dynojet machine was 250 hp and 231ft/lbs and that is the corrected readings not the other ones. my car is rated with 247hp and 228 ft/lbs at the crank. All factory paperwork that I've read says that U.S. cars are rated with the accessories working {on}. Also the euro has even larger sway bars and even lighter than my car. my car has a 20 gallon fuel tank and the factory weight is 2954 lbs dry with options. { posi-trac,radio,air con,sun roof} I have them all. I have removed some weight and now with a full tank, my car weights 3002lbs. speed. ALSO no back seats.
Hi speed,
Cheers for info. Interesting stuff.
Re superchargers, you can get an Eaton supercharger that basically bolts straight on. Autofarm have an RS for sale at 40k without, 45k with. There is quite a nice picture of the supercharger fitted. Look at http://freespace.virgin.net/auto.farm/sales.html
It is the red RS 964 you are looking for.
Cost, as you can see, is around 5k GBP, 7k dollars. The Eaton conversion retains the standard pistons for cost and reliability, therefore it only produces minimal boost. But that is still enough to get about 340 bhp from a standard RS '260' bhp engine.
However, I know of one RS with supercharger that has had its engine blow up, so ultimate reliability cannot be guaranteed.
Cheers
Domster
Cheers for info. Interesting stuff.
Re superchargers, you can get an Eaton supercharger that basically bolts straight on. Autofarm have an RS for sale at 40k without, 45k with. There is quite a nice picture of the supercharger fitted. Look at http://freespace.virgin.net/auto.farm/sales.html
It is the red RS 964 you are looking for.
Cost, as you can see, is around 5k GBP, 7k dollars. The Eaton conversion retains the standard pistons for cost and reliability, therefore it only produces minimal boost. But that is still enough to get about 340 bhp from a standard RS '260' bhp engine.
However, I know of one RS with supercharger that has had its engine blow up, so ultimate reliability cannot be guaranteed.
Cheers
Domster
(Just posted same message on tvr board)
Hi all,
Am a tad depressed this morning as my mate has just beaten me to purchasing a 'proper' sports car - a cerbera 4.5. How annoying! He knew I was planning a similar purchase this forthcoming summer and stole my thunder. Now all I'm hearing are his new cars vital statistics. It's like top trumps over the phone: 0-60 in 3.9 and 190 mph etc. I now have about 5 months left before I can join him with a decent fast car - and need to decide on something equally as fast or I'll never hear the end of it. A little bit of friendly rivalry going on here! I too will be spending around +40k but need to decide:
a. copy my mate and go for unbeatable dry weather performance in a cerbie 4.5
b. pick up a decent used 993 turbo for more money but hopefully save on servicing / repairs
c. a little impractical - lotus exige with 260bhp supercharger
d. mitsubishi evo7 extreme (1.9 bar turbo pressure) - the fastest car in the wet down our local windy country roads I'm sure!
I guess I will test drive the above shortlist over the next few months and see which is the most fun around my usual area. At the end of the day it comes down to money - how much will be wasted in depreciation and servicing, repairs etc. The bills on a tvr might scare me.
Hi all,
Am a tad depressed this morning as my mate has just beaten me to purchasing a 'proper' sports car - a cerbera 4.5. How annoying! He knew I was planning a similar purchase this forthcoming summer and stole my thunder. Now all I'm hearing are his new cars vital statistics. It's like top trumps over the phone: 0-60 in 3.9 and 190 mph etc. I now have about 5 months left before I can join him with a decent fast car - and need to decide on something equally as fast or I'll never hear the end of it. A little bit of friendly rivalry going on here! I too will be spending around +40k but need to decide:
a. copy my mate and go for unbeatable dry weather performance in a cerbie 4.5
b. pick up a decent used 993 turbo for more money but hopefully save on servicing / repairs
c. a little impractical - lotus exige with 260bhp supercharger
d. mitsubishi evo7 extreme (1.9 bar turbo pressure) - the fastest car in the wet down our local windy country roads I'm sure!
I guess I will test drive the above shortlist over the next few months and see which is the most fun around my usual area. At the end of the day it comes down to money - how much will be wasted in depreciation and servicing, repairs etc. The bills on a tvr might scare me.
Hi,
Can't wait to see what the posts are like on the Tiv section - they will be different here.
Anyway, the answer is obvious, as you don't want 'his n hers' cerbies, do you?
- The 993 Twin Turbo - bosshogs is for sale at the moment in Polar Silver - beautiful. Give him an email (see for sale section). Reasons are as follows:
a. copy my mate and go for unbeatable dry weather performance in a cerbie 4.5..... Look, people will gossip about you getting an identical car to him, and then you will spend a fortune 'outdoing' him with accessories, sound systems etc. And it's probably going to break down. If he nails your 993TT in the dry, you can at least have the last laugh when his Tiv is towed to the nearest dealer. The build integrity of the 993 will also make him weep, especially the electrics.
b. pick up a decent used 993 turbo for more money but hopefully save on servicing / repairs... bang on my son. 0-60 in 3.9 (check Autocar!), 0-100 in 9.3, top whack of 186 mph. This is not much slower than a 4.5 is it? And you have better traction off the line thanks to 4WD. You'll also be quicker in the wet and around roundabouts.
c. a little impractical - lotus exige with 260bhp supercharger... why bother? Supercharger will cost a fair bit and make the Exige even more unreliable. They are built okayish, but not Porschelike. Dodgy handling on limit, too. Also, you won't get any money for the supercharger come resale.
d. mitsubishi evo7 extreme (1.9 bar turbo pressure) - the fastest car in the wet down our local windy country roads I'm sure!... indeed it will be, but the interior is like looking inside a dark, plasticky hole. Ugh. Would you want to spend much time there? They are quick, handle well, tons of grip, but lack a little involvement according to some. They also do about 3mpg and have a fuel tank the size of a hamster's house. Fine if you like service station forecourts.
To put things in perspective, I have looked at these cars myself, to replace my Lotus Carlton, and the only one I keep coming back to is made in Stuttgart.
All IMHO - check the TiV board for other opinions!!!!
Rgds
Domster
Can't wait to see what the posts are like on the Tiv section - they will be different here.
Anyway, the answer is obvious, as you don't want 'his n hers' cerbies, do you?
- The 993 Twin Turbo - bosshogs is for sale at the moment in Polar Silver - beautiful. Give him an email (see for sale section). Reasons are as follows:
a. copy my mate and go for unbeatable dry weather performance in a cerbie 4.5..... Look, people will gossip about you getting an identical car to him, and then you will spend a fortune 'outdoing' him with accessories, sound systems etc. And it's probably going to break down. If he nails your 993TT in the dry, you can at least have the last laugh when his Tiv is towed to the nearest dealer. The build integrity of the 993 will also make him weep, especially the electrics.
b. pick up a decent used 993 turbo for more money but hopefully save on servicing / repairs... bang on my son. 0-60 in 3.9 (check Autocar!), 0-100 in 9.3, top whack of 186 mph. This is not much slower than a 4.5 is it? And you have better traction off the line thanks to 4WD. You'll also be quicker in the wet and around roundabouts.
c. a little impractical - lotus exige with 260bhp supercharger... why bother? Supercharger will cost a fair bit and make the Exige even more unreliable. They are built okayish, but not Porschelike. Dodgy handling on limit, too. Also, you won't get any money for the supercharger come resale.
d. mitsubishi evo7 extreme (1.9 bar turbo pressure) - the fastest car in the wet down our local windy country roads I'm sure!... indeed it will be, but the interior is like looking inside a dark, plasticky hole. Ugh. Would you want to spend much time there? They are quick, handle well, tons of grip, but lack a little involvement according to some. They also do about 3mpg and have a fuel tank the size of a hamster's house. Fine if you like service station forecourts.
To put things in perspective, I have looked at these cars myself, to replace my Lotus Carlton, and the only one I keep coming back to is made in Stuttgart.
All IMHO - check the TiV board for other opinions!!!!
Rgds
Domster
Buy a Tuscan S and you would be with the Cerbera all the way and get a great deal more cred and exclusivity. Don't buy a Porsche when you can support English car manufacturers like TVR which are just as good and are much rarer. If you need 4 seats then you'll just have to put the kids in the boot of the Tuscan and forget the golf clubs that day,
Rob
Rob
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