RE: Porsche Cayenne
Discussion
quote:
Sure the money could have been pumped into a different project - but which segment that would make more sense than the SUV route?
Agreed, and they didn't have to look too far to what a success their fellow Teutonic compatriots have made in branching out into a lucrative SUV market (thinks Mercedes M Class, BMW X Series).
This despite both of the aforementioned being built in the US, and perhaps not displaying the usual European build quality one would expect from either marque (dons flameproof suit).
There's few other sectors I can think of. And as long as the build process doesn't change (handbuilt, stringent QC and so on) then I doubt it will dilute the rest of the range.
Porsche have spent years and invested heavily in developing their brand name - they're not just going to throw all that hard work away.
quote:
I respect your unhappiness that the marque is being diluted by a non sports car project but would argue that Porsche has had it's name on all sorts of engineering projects over the years that were not sports car related.
Seat Ibiza 1.2 "Tuned by Porsche", anyone? I owned one . . . it made 100mph once - downhill in the Pyrenees with the wind behind it. In contrast, I've just bought an Audi RS2 which is oh-so-definitely tuned by Porsche in just the right way
Be warned no conclusion to this post, or structure to think of it….
1) Business texts state 'unity of market'. I.e. stick to what you do well.
2) Risk of stagnation with out diversity.
3) More people you sell too (generally), the more money you make. Hence, you can afford to sell cars at a loss, like the 959...
4) The technology required to get a 4x4 round a track has to be more challenging than that of a sports car. So what happens when you apply this knowledge to car that already handles and performs well?
5) Would you rather Porsche made 4x4's or owned by VW?
6) Lambo made a 4x4, cross between a hummer and countach(sp)
7) Who wants to buy a car from a prestige carmaker when they can buy one from a sports car maker?
8) Why the stupid name?
9) Why do people use 4x4's for road use only. What’s wrong with a good old estate (RS4?) if you need the room.
10) Why have I bothered writing this post?
1) Business texts state 'unity of market'. I.e. stick to what you do well.
2) Risk of stagnation with out diversity.
3) More people you sell too (generally), the more money you make. Hence, you can afford to sell cars at a loss, like the 959...
4) The technology required to get a 4x4 round a track has to be more challenging than that of a sports car. So what happens when you apply this knowledge to car that already handles and performs well?
5) Would you rather Porsche made 4x4's or owned by VW?
6) Lambo made a 4x4, cross between a hummer and countach(sp)
7) Who wants to buy a car from a prestige carmaker when they can buy one from a sports car maker?
8) Why the stupid name?
9) Why do people use 4x4's for road use only. What’s wrong with a good old estate (RS4?) if you need the room.
10) Why have I bothered writing this post?
UV - some replies...
1) Business texts state 'unity of market'. I.e. stick to what you do well.
But Richard Branson says diversification lets you flog cola, next to pensions, next to wedding services, next to atlantic flights, next to shit train services, next to mobile phones. Why bother sticking to what you do well, when you can have a fiddle with flogging lighters down the market. Have a go at anything and one day, you might make a couple of quid. Unless it involves railways. Or lighters.
2) Risk of stagnation with out diversity.
Porsche lighter anyone?
3) More people you sell too (generally), the more money you make. Hence, you can afford to sell cars at a loss, like the 959...
No one will design and sell a car they *think* will make a loss. Even racing teams will try and cover costs in sponsorship and prize money. Other loss-making projects have been embarked upon for branding or showcase reasons - they pay for themselves in the long run.
4) The technology required to get a 4x4 round a track has to be more challenging than that of a sports car. So what happens when you apply this knowledge to a car that already handles and performs well?
Not much probably, as they may have applied their maximum knowledge to the sports cars, and the 4x4s are getting the residual of that knowledge.
5) Would you rather Porsche made 4x4's or owned by VW?
Neither! If it was a *must* I would say let them make 4x4s. They designed my toaster and kettle for gawd's sake!
6) Lambo made a 4x4, cross between a hummer and countach(sp)
Do they still? The LM002 is a bit of a dog anyway. Never hurt their sports car reputation, but didn't enhance it. Probably because it is sooo different. Caterpillar boots are miles apart from Caterpillar dumper trucks, and these brands are separate in consumer's minds because of extreme product differences - despite sharing same name.
7) Who wants to buy a car from a prestige carmaker when they can buy one from a sports car maker?
Rich numpties.
8) Why the stupid name?
Oooh, it's so hot and spicy for a 4X4! Yes, it is daft.
9) Why do people use 4x4's for road use only. What’s wrong with a good old estate (RS4?) if you need the room.
People like the elevated driving position.
10) Why have I bothered writing this post?
Errr, so that I could respond wittily?
It's an interesting point about being able to produce the odd car at a loss, due to all the cash kicking around. It's great manufacturers actually do this once in a while just for the art of it. If it wasn't for this attitude the the greatest car of all time wouldn't have been made, as Mclaren didn't make anything on the F1, despite the price tag.
quote:
And what are you going to say about the new Ferrari SUV (due out in 2004)?
I have never rated ferrari high in my heart but now they have reached the deepest...
What is more, ferraillerie may not need, unlike Porsche, to develop a new car: don't they belong to Fiat ?
>> Edited by thom on Thursday 21st February 10:45
quote:
Sorry, I must have misread the Ferrari handout - their SUV apparently means 'Schumacher's Un????? Victories" (rough translation, because my Italian is sketchy).
Possibly "Schumacher's 'Undred Victories", in preparation for the 2002 F1 season walkover ? They would have used the H but SHV didn't sound as good nor contentious.
Still, you probably got a few people scared McNab !
Greg
PS - Mercedes have been building tanks for bloody years. I drive one almost daily !
PPS - Didn't Etorre Bugatti once describe Bentleys as "lorries" ?
I think if they wanted to diversify they could have got in to the performance sedan market, build something to compete with the M3 maybe.
And get back to racing with a competative GT car.
In some ways it seems ironic that the 911, Porsches flagship model, is really the car that is holding them back, preventing them building or improving other models that will outperform the 911.
all imho of course.
And get back to racing with a competative GT car.
In some ways it seems ironic that the 911, Porsches flagship model, is really the car that is holding them back, preventing them building or improving other models that will outperform the 911.
all imho of course.
I totally agree with your article, except that you cannot put 4 people in a Carrera 4 (just 2).
Porsche is doing disservice to their brand by trying to keep up with the rest of the crowd. They should stick to what they have been doing well, producing a very good sports car. I think their image will be diluted with this SUV.
Porsche is doing disservice to their brand by trying to keep up with the rest of the crowd. They should stick to what they have been doing well, producing a very good sports car. I think their image will be diluted with this SUV.
My own little jury has been out on this, but having just looked at the photo's again, I must say I have decided that I wish they had not bothered.
I appreciate it does not make MY car any less enjoyable to me but somehow its just not right.
I think I may shed a tear the first time I see a school run being done by 'mum' in one of these.
Dear dear.
I appreciate it does not make MY car any less enjoyable to me but somehow its just not right.
I think I may shed a tear the first time I see a school run being done by 'mum' in one of these.
Dear dear.
If you go into photoshop and 'free transform' a boxster so that it is twice as high as normal, you will fully understand how the designers have arrived at their design.
It is a bit of a pig really, and Porsche should really only be doing it if they think they can win the Paris-Dakar again.
It is a bit of a pig really, and Porsche should really only be doing it if they think they can win the Paris-Dakar again.
Porsche must be getting paid a fortune by VW to develop the thing so it makes sense to build a hot Porsche version to maintain independence.Just as long as their next range of sportscars don't handle like trucks!There used to be a sort of gentlemens agreement between the german manufacturers to keep to their own market sector but now everyone is muscling in trying to build Sportscars.
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