RE: Porsche Cayenne
Discussion
And the daft thing is that the really sexy Porsches, like GT3s, RSs, GT2s etc. never sold (or sell) well anyhow... look how many 993RSs they sold compared to 993 Turbos.
It seems the people who buy Porsches new are more likely to want every toy money can buy and all the luxury/practicality they can handle. This makes the Cayenne a good idea.
But the second generation customers, ie private punters buying after depreciation has done its worst, are more likely to be enthusiasts who want a rawer, purer experience.
Just a theory.
Second hand sales of Cayenne will be interesting. My guess is that Ss will be quite cheap but still popular, and Turbos will be rare as hen's teeth and v sought after.
It seems the people who buy Porsches new are more likely to want every toy money can buy and all the luxury/practicality they can handle. This makes the Cayenne a good idea.
But the second generation customers, ie private punters buying after depreciation has done its worst, are more likely to be enthusiasts who want a rawer, purer experience.
Just a theory.
Second hand sales of Cayenne will be interesting. My guess is that Ss will be quite cheap but still popular, and Turbos will be rare as hen's teeth and v sought after.
If Tennyson penned nursery rhymes would that make him less of a poet?
If Elvis did jingles for Burger King would that make him less of a musician?
If Liz Hurley opened your local Arndale Centre, would that make her less of a celebrity?
Sports cars like Porsches are 50% metal, 50% brand. People buy them to experience what it is like owning a legend - you may not want to see that eroded.
Imagine if you had just signed up Liz Hurley to your cosmetics company and she started doing appearances in your local Matalan... would you be upset or not????
This is what makes the Cayenne issue so interesting to discuss; it is as much about Porsche the brand, the legend and the myth as it is about Porsche cars.
If Elvis did jingles for Burger King would that make him less of a musician?
If Liz Hurley opened your local Arndale Centre, would that make her less of a celebrity?
Sports cars like Porsches are 50% metal, 50% brand. People buy them to experience what it is like owning a legend - you may not want to see that eroded.
Imagine if you had just signed up Liz Hurley to your cosmetics company and she started doing appearances in your local Matalan... would you be upset or not????
This is what makes the Cayenne issue so interesting to discuss; it is as much about Porsche the brand, the legend and the myth as it is about Porsche cars.
Lets get real here. Porsche stopped being Porsche when they made the 996 and Boxster, not the K-N. Good cars no doubt, but they are not Porsches in my eyes. Why? Because the thing that had always separated Porsche from the other high performance car manufacturers was the ridiculous over engineering. This gave it, the rightly deserved reputation, as the most reliable super car maker in the world. Here was a car you could trash to with an inch of it's life, and it would turn round to you and say "is that the best you can do. Girl..." Quick wash, and it would be ready for more. That to me is true engineering genius. Even I could make a 1000 bhp, 50cc engine, might only generate that power for a micro-second before it melted or evaporated, but...... TVR anyone?
The second that accountants replaced engineers as the most important people in Porsche, was the day the brand died. All this talk of Porshce remaining independent is irrelevant. The takeover has already happened. The GT3 and Turbo are somewhat closer to being 'proper' Porsches. However, the fact that a warrantee appears to be essential hammers home the final nail. If I need a warrantee i'll have a Donkey or Bull over a Porker every time.
997 as my next car.... Unlikely, i'd rather add more proper Porsches to the stable.
All IMO, blah, blah, blah.....
The second that accountants replaced engineers as the most important people in Porsche, was the day the brand died. All this talk of Porshce remaining independent is irrelevant. The takeover has already happened. The GT3 and Turbo are somewhat closer to being 'proper' Porsches. However, the fact that a warrantee appears to be essential hammers home the final nail. If I need a warrantee i'll have a Donkey or Bull over a Porker every time.
997 as my next car.... Unlikely, i'd rather add more proper Porsches to the stable.
All IMO, blah, blah, blah.....
second hand sales of the Cayenne will be interesting allright. When word gets out that the transmission has vitually no parts accessibility, value is going to drop like a rock. I'm sure there will always be a few people willing to pay the price to be seen posing behind the Porsche crest, regardless of what they put it on.
I for one would have rather seen the diversity money go into better products and racing, rather than to build a milk wagon, albeit a fast one. Having said that numerous times, the impact of the Cayenne on Porsches well being won't be known for years.
good or bad
ds
I for one would have rather seen the diversity money go into better products and racing, rather than to build a milk wagon, albeit a fast one. Having said that numerous times, the impact of the Cayenne on Porsches well being won't be known for years.
good or bad
ds
The brand question is an important one, but at the risk of making an obvious point, I think a bigger question is about the choices which have been ignored in favour of the Cayenne development programme.
Porsche needs to be R&D led and the massive budget spent in developing a 4X4 has a massive opportunity cost on what else the company could have developed. So without the Cayenne we would have had another offering, either another sports car, a more aggressive development programme for the 996 or perhaps a greater and more generous involvement in motor sport. That’s the issue for me - a matter of choice an opportunity cost and that's why it is a big deal and Porsche chose to develop the Cayenne.
Doesn’t make it wrong - just important
Of course in the long run it may provide more revenue to invest in these areas which have been starved to feed its development, though I think you'd have to be generous to believe this.
I’d still have one if I needed a 4X4 and had the cash
James
Porsche needs to be R&D led and the massive budget spent in developing a 4X4 has a massive opportunity cost on what else the company could have developed. So without the Cayenne we would have had another offering, either another sports car, a more aggressive development programme for the 996 or perhaps a greater and more generous involvement in motor sport. That’s the issue for me - a matter of choice an opportunity cost and that's why it is a big deal and Porsche chose to develop the Cayenne.
Doesn’t make it wrong - just important
Of course in the long run it may provide more revenue to invest in these areas which have been starved to feed its development, though I think you'd have to be generous to believe this.
I’d still have one if I needed a 4X4 and had the cash
James
Well, they developed the Carrera GT and both the 997 and 987 will hit the showrooms either late this year or next year, so clearly the R & D budget didn't take too much of a hit, did it?
Apropos Cayenne, looks aside its pretty damn capable, isn't it?
Apropos the 996/986 being the first of the "not proper" Porsches, well, lets just say I don't happen to agree with that statement.
Apropos Cayenne, looks aside its pretty damn capable, isn't it?
Apropos the 996/986 being the first of the "not proper" Porsches, well, lets just say I don't happen to agree with that statement.
Such emotion and discussion!
As a new convert to the world of Porsche, with a Mk2 GT3 now in the garage, I suppose I have no benchmark as to what a "real" one was like, and to be honest, I couldn't give a fetid dingo's kidney. It is fantastic, I love it. Maybe I'm a big girl's blouse who doesn't know a raw car when he sees one, however I also have an SR3 so would beg to differ. The GT3 is amazing, really communicative impressive in almost every way. Sure, it would be nice if it weighed 1000kg instead of 1370 or whatever, but now we are picking hairs.
As for the Cayenne, I dunno. It's pig ugly, for sure. Not quite convinced about why you'd buy one, also. But I'm sure it tells me that Porsche need the funds it generates to continue making their great sports cars, and for that I'm thankful. I very much doubt you can seriously draw parallels with Lambo and their awful mudplugger.
Just my 2p anyway.
As a new convert to the world of Porsche, with a Mk2 GT3 now in the garage, I suppose I have no benchmark as to what a "real" one was like, and to be honest, I couldn't give a fetid dingo's kidney. It is fantastic, I love it. Maybe I'm a big girl's blouse who doesn't know a raw car when he sees one, however I also have an SR3 so would beg to differ. The GT3 is amazing, really communicative impressive in almost every way. Sure, it would be nice if it weighed 1000kg instead of 1370 or whatever, but now we are picking hairs.
As for the Cayenne, I dunno. It's pig ugly, for sure. Not quite convinced about why you'd buy one, also. But I'm sure it tells me that Porsche need the funds it generates to continue making their great sports cars, and for that I'm thankful. I very much doubt you can seriously draw parallels with Lambo and their awful mudplugger.
Just my 2p anyway.
Another bloke who can`t understand why anyone would want a K-N, yet 97.2% of the population can`t understand why you bought, and how you manage to live with a GT3 as your car.
If you needed to go to BnQ to buy a new lawn mower how would you get it home? If you and the missus had to take your son and his two best mates to Alton Towers for the day how would get there? And if you enjoyed dirt biking, sailing, Go karting, Jet skiing, windsurfing, flying really really big model planes and so on how would you enjoy your hobby. It`s a lifestyle thing.
And quite right, what a load of crap - if the accountants hadn`t spent money developing the K-N there would have been more money for "extreme" sports cars, they are indeed available, or is the Carrera GT no good? It`s a bit dear I grant you but I`m afraid that`s what happens when you develop a car with such a small audience.
The fact is there are more people in the country who`s lifesyle would suit a K-N than a Boxster or 911 which means that Porsche stand to sell a lot of cars. You may find they need to do that in order to keep on top of materials technology and the like so their sports cars stay in the cutting edge of design. I fear otherwise they may have gone the route of TVR / Lotus relying on hand me down technology or chancing their arm by launching innovative products before they were properly tested.
Porsche have always skirted mass market products to stay alive. The 924/44/68 was a mass market car that made them good money. In return punters got lovely little cars which are still good buys even now.
Time will indeed tell. I`ve no doubt the K-N will not be without it`s problems and in truth I doubt if the company has the metal to deal properly with them when they arise (one only has to see the complaints of lack of customer service on this site. The "enthusiast" employees within the organisation are llargely long gone, replaced by businessmen and consumer lifestyle analysts.
But what do I know I`m a bloody fruitcake when it comes to cars. A 200mph Ferrari, a 20mph 1923 Delahaye, a zillion tonne Porsche 4 by 4, an orange bruiser with only one seat `n tyres that only last a weekend, and a tractor. All I need is a fire engine to complete the collection.
Hmmmm...... now where`s that exchange `n mart.
I still think there aren`t too many complaints from them as have driven the ugly fat beast though !!
Keeping the love flowing
Henry
Happy sports car riving everyone
If you needed to go to BnQ to buy a new lawn mower how would you get it home? If you and the missus had to take your son and his two best mates to Alton Towers for the day how would get there? And if you enjoyed dirt biking, sailing, Go karting, Jet skiing, windsurfing, flying really really big model planes and so on how would you enjoy your hobby. It`s a lifestyle thing.
And quite right, what a load of crap - if the accountants hadn`t spent money developing the K-N there would have been more money for "extreme" sports cars, they are indeed available, or is the Carrera GT no good? It`s a bit dear I grant you but I`m afraid that`s what happens when you develop a car with such a small audience.
The fact is there are more people in the country who`s lifesyle would suit a K-N than a Boxster or 911 which means that Porsche stand to sell a lot of cars. You may find they need to do that in order to keep on top of materials technology and the like so their sports cars stay in the cutting edge of design. I fear otherwise they may have gone the route of TVR / Lotus relying on hand me down technology or chancing their arm by launching innovative products before they were properly tested.
Porsche have always skirted mass market products to stay alive. The 924/44/68 was a mass market car that made them good money. In return punters got lovely little cars which are still good buys even now.
Time will indeed tell. I`ve no doubt the K-N will not be without it`s problems and in truth I doubt if the company has the metal to deal properly with them when they arise (one only has to see the complaints of lack of customer service on this site. The "enthusiast" employees within the organisation are llargely long gone, replaced by businessmen and consumer lifestyle analysts.
But what do I know I`m a bloody fruitcake when it comes to cars. A 200mph Ferrari, a 20mph 1923 Delahaye, a zillion tonne Porsche 4 by 4, an orange bruiser with only one seat `n tyres that only last a weekend, and a tractor. All I need is a fire engine to complete the collection.
Hmmmm...... now where`s that exchange `n mart.
I still think there aren`t too many complaints from them as have driven the ugly fat beast though !!
Keeping the love flowing
Henry
Happy sports car riving everyone
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to house two cars, let alone being able to afford calibre of steed you currently enjoy. The Passatt is one of my all time fave`s !!
Could I have one with the snorkle top and the fur lining.
I`m going to have to join the Cayenne register soon Melv, then will I get a sew on patch, or is that only the RS register members ?
Looking forward to Brands this year !!
Henry
Could I have one with the snorkle top and the fur lining.
I`m going to have to join the Cayenne register soon Melv, then will I get a sew on patch, or is that only the RS register members ?
Looking forward to Brands this year !!
Henry
Glad you like the Passat Henry, though mine doesn't have the furry options. They sound fun though.
It does seem miles bigger inside than the Cayenne though, so I guess that means it can accomodate my huge lifestyle and allow me to spend the money I saved buying it rather than a Cayenne on my SR3.
It does seem miles bigger inside than the Cayenne though, so I guess that means it can accomodate my huge lifestyle and allow me to spend the money I saved buying it rather than a Cayenne on my SR3.
We had some dealings with Phil Abbott from Radical years and years ago when he either bought from us, sold to us, or both ! I remember visiting his factory in Peterborough and having a long chat, they had just started the Radical and had produce half a dozen or so cars.
I remember thinking how well built they were even then. Good to see they`ve gone from strength to strength. We had a BBQ with him at Brands last year when our racing calanders overlapped. A nice chap !
But imagine a car that combined the benefits of the Passat, the Rad & the GT3 - et voila, Le nouveau Porsche Cayenne.
Not convinced ?
Henry
I remember thinking how well built they were even then. Good to see they`ve gone from strength to strength. We had a BBQ with him at Brands last year when our racing calanders overlapped. A nice chap !
But imagine a car that combined the benefits of the Passat, the Rad & the GT3 - et voila, Le nouveau Porsche Cayenne.
Not convinced ?
Henry
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