996 GT3 investment according to Sunday Times
Discussion
Quite agree about the comparison between the 964RS and GT3. Although I have considerable affection for the RS, and am glad to have owned one, the GT3 suits me better (note I avoided saying it is a better car!). It combines being a perfectly acceptable road car with a serious challenge at the track and for the money it is hard to see how it could be bettered.
But returning to the question inherent in the OP, is it an investment? Personally I'm not so sure, especially if you take all costs into account. Doubtless it will lose money more slowly than a new car but I will be surprised if ownership brings any financial benefits...but that won't stop it being a whole lot of fun.
PS Our car dealer acquaintance did say he might join me at the track one day. Perhaps you could come too and we can all take the old girl for a bit of a canter.
But returning to the question inherent in the OP, is it an investment? Personally I'm not so sure, especially if you take all costs into account. Doubtless it will lose money more slowly than a new car but I will be surprised if ownership brings any financial benefits...but that won't stop it being a whole lot of fun.
PS Our car dealer acquaintance did say he might join me at the track one day. Perhaps you could come too and we can all take the old girl for a bit of a canter.
i think the sunday times is off the mark here, cars are bought with the heart......can a car really be considered an investment when you factor in running costs, storage costs and the cost of your own time, i think you always break even or worse especially in this climate with rising fuel costs and government regulation...
Mclovin said:
i think the sunday times is off the mark here, cars are bought with the heart......can a car really be considered an investment when you factor in running costs, storage costs and the cost of your own time, i think you always break even or worse especially in this climate with rising fuel costs and government regulation...
With the exception of my ex-Wife's 993 Tip C2, I have never lost money on an air-cooled 911 in over 33 years of ownership. In particular the 964RS has proved a real banker over the last five years. Each time reinvesting, and now putting some spare into a long time itch MK1 GT3. But this is strangely not the reason I approach the purchase, to make money, but more importantly not to lose. Departure into the GT3 World will hopefully not prove me wrong. I think I have bought right.There are many Ferrari owners out there who pile in fortunes because there cars are worth bigger fortunes. At the end of the day, you have to enter the purchase at the right time and right product. That is he skill of the seasoned buyer with years of experience.
996 GT3 MK1's have been the same money for two years, is that not a sign that they have bottomed out.
In this era of speed cameras and social responsibility, surely cars that dont depreciate can be considered as viable buys as weekend toys by the aspiring track day warriors.
For that reason the Times's investment projection must carry some merit, surely?
In this era of speed cameras and social responsibility, surely cars that dont depreciate can be considered as viable buys as weekend toys by the aspiring track day warriors.
For that reason the Times's investment projection must carry some merit, surely?
carreraboy said:
Mclovin said:
i think the sunday times is off the mark here, cars are bought with the heart......can a car really be considered an investment when you factor in running costs, storage costs and the cost of your own time, i think you always break even or worse especially in this climate with rising fuel costs and government regulation...
With the exception of my ex-Wife's 993 Tip C2, I have never lost money on an air-cooled 911 in over 33 years of ownership. In particular the 964RS has proved a real banker over the last five years. Each time reinvesting, and now putting some spare into a long time itch MK1 GT3. But this is strangely not the reason I approach the purchase, to make money, but more importantly not to lose. Departure into the GT3 World will hopefully not prove me wrong. I think I have bought right.There are many Ferrari owners out there who pile in fortunes because there cars are worth bigger fortunes. At the end of the day, you have to enter the purchase at the right time and right product. That is he skill of the seasoned buyer with years of experience.
you buy a car as an impulse toy,weather you explain it to yourself (or your partner) this way or not.
You buy your house (for instance) for the same reason,you like it,it's in a good area & if you put that exstension on the back you mighht make some money.
However!
They ain't making anymore 996 gt3s at wessach so they must go up in value?
But having said that there are more people being born every day than there are houses being built,so they must go up in value too yeah?
So, which will you see the best return on?well how many people are going to want a gt3mk1 compared to how many people are going to want a house?buying cars as an investment is lunacy!
If you bought a 964rs at 25 grand & sold it for 60 whilst only spending 8 grand on maintenance then good for you but don't expect it to happen to every limited build Porsche out there.
If it was that simple we'd all have a couple in the garage!
Buy well,look after it & most of all enjoy it,I'd rarther have the memories of a nurburgring trip in the mind than 5 grand profit in the bank!
PPPPPP said:
TGJR said:
It is fair to say that cars are not as 'solid' now as they were in 80's and early 90's - Mercs are another example of that, however, I think you are over egging the issue with your comments ref. egg trays!
Trying to be a bit like Jeremy Clarkson & his comment on boot panel in the M3 CSL "Subsequently I tried the CSL version on the Isle of Man. This had a carbon fibre roof, a sequential gearbox, a boot floor made from cardboard and a big nostril in the front". Call me anything you want but please no references to mimicking J C, can't stand the man or his show..
My comment on plastics resembling the quality of egg boxes is directly aimed at one part on the 996. The interior I could live with, generally accepting the low rent furnishing and fixtures. The plastic section directly below the windscreen which also makes up the front luggage surround truly is the naffest material ever used in a car. To my horror when I got my 997 RS it was even worse, I had to take it off once and it cracked as easily as the sugar shell coating on a Cadbury's mini 'egg'.
No offense or b
hing towards the 996, as I have said they do offer so many positive things inc a first class drive and one day I will no doubt find one in my garage.I don't think whatever car you own will be 100% perfect in all areas some having strengths in different places. Please don't think of me as some car building quality freak - my present car is a 328 and the one before that a Diablo 6L which although not that badly screwed together are a far cry from the German stuff.
TGJR said:
I tend to agree that the mk1 GT3 will lead the way with strong values in a few years time, however, I think the mk 2 will be not far behind.
Lets say, for arguments sake, that in 2018 a good mk1 GT3 with 60k miles on the clock is fetching £50k. Surely some potential buyers will look at the mk2 as an option if they are priced at say circa £40k?
It's a tough call to predict prices in 5-10 years time but of all the Porsches built in the past 10 years and currently available for less than £60k my order of 'investment' potential would be:
1) 996 GT3 RS
2) 996 GT3 Mk1
3) 996 GT3 mk2
4) 996 GT2
5) 997 GT3 (RS not available at sub £60k yet)
6) 996 Turbo
Interesting to look back on this old post of mine from 2010 when I owned a 996 GT3 mk2. I sold it about 18 months later (don't ask how much!) and I am now in the market again for a 996 GT3 or 997 GT3 but looking at fairly stiff prices.Lets say, for arguments sake, that in 2018 a good mk1 GT3 with 60k miles on the clock is fetching £50k. Surely some potential buyers will look at the mk2 as an option if they are priced at say circa £40k?
It's a tough call to predict prices in 5-10 years time but of all the Porsches built in the past 10 years and currently available for less than £60k my order of 'investment' potential would be:
1) 996 GT3 RS
2) 996 GT3 Mk1
3) 996 GT3 mk2
4) 996 GT2
5) 997 GT3 (RS not available at sub £60k yet)
6) 996 Turbo
I reckon my top 6 investment cars in 2010 would have done pretty well and if I had bought one of each then and sold them now I would have a clear profit of about £200-250K. If only........
TGJR said:
Interesting to look back on this old post of mine from 2010 when I owned a 996 GT3 mk2. I sold it about 18 months later (don't ask how much!) and I am now in the market again for a 996 GT3 or 997 GT3 but looking at fairly stiff prices.
I reckon my top 6 investment cars in 2010 would have done pretty well and if I had bought one of each then and sold them now I would have a clear profit of about £200-250K. If only........
I sold mine for £38k but it don't make it a good car now it's £85k hence why I sold it !I reckon my top 6 investment cars in 2010 would have done pretty well and if I had bought one of each then and sold them now I would have a clear profit of about £200-250K. If only........
Whichever pre-991 911 happens to be your bag, they ain't making it anymore and, mores the point, there's probably very little else available from new today that can tick all of the boxes for speed, handling, driver involvement, excitement and, perhaps most definitely, racing pedigree.
New stuff is great, really good, but if the itch you have can only be scratched by a used car, you have a dwindling choice but not, necessarily, a dwindling pool of potential buyers.
New stuff is great, really good, but if the itch you have can only be scratched by a used car, you have a dwindling choice but not, necessarily, a dwindling pool of potential buyers.
Digga said:
Whichever pre-991 911 happens to be your bag, they ain't making it anymore and, mores the point, there's probably very little else available from new today that can tick all of the boxes for speed, handling, driver involvement, excitement and, perhaps most definitely, racing pedigree.
New stuff is great, really good, but if the itch you have can only be scratched by a used car, you have a dwindling choice but not, necessarily, a dwindling pool of potential buyers.
Indeed, re new buyers. Picked up my new, to me, 996 GT3 Mk2 this afternoon New stuff is great, really good, but if the itch you have can only be scratched by a used car, you have a dwindling choice but not, necessarily, a dwindling pool of potential buyers.
Wonderful machine! They don't make 'em like they used to.
Enjoy 
I find this very interesting.
Having owned every variety of 964RS with the exception of the Touring, a 993RS, every 996GT3 and a 997GT3 --- whilst driving every other GT3 up to 991 including the famous 4.0L on track (yes it was great) --- I chipped them all to buy again the best 996 MkI GT3 CS RHD that I could find.
It wasn't cheap, I may even have paid too much for it, but for me this is the car that best reflects the compact, visceral, tactile, playful, motorsport inspired essence of Porsche. It also has that ultra simple slightly old school hewn from granite feel which I adore.
From all the old cars that I drove and improved, I decided to keep a very sweet non original numbers LHD 2.4S with the 915 box ... the last of the old-timers and not too expensive to use and in superb condition.
Chalk and cheese, but what lovey cars and the best thing is that they are both so understated.
Will I have made the best decision ? Who knows ? I sold the development 993RS Prototype and the 964RS NGT that was given to Ulrich Richter .. but I had to buy another 996 GT3 MkI CS .....
Having owned every variety of 964RS with the exception of the Touring, a 993RS, every 996GT3 and a 997GT3 --- whilst driving every other GT3 up to 991 including the famous 4.0L on track (yes it was great) --- I chipped them all to buy again the best 996 MkI GT3 CS RHD that I could find.
It wasn't cheap, I may even have paid too much for it, but for me this is the car that best reflects the compact, visceral, tactile, playful, motorsport inspired essence of Porsche. It also has that ultra simple slightly old school hewn from granite feel which I adore.
From all the old cars that I drove and improved, I decided to keep a very sweet non original numbers LHD 2.4S with the 915 box ... the last of the old-timers and not too expensive to use and in superb condition.
Chalk and cheese, but what lovey cars and the best thing is that they are both so understated.
Will I have made the best decision ? Who knows ? I sold the development 993RS Prototype and the 964RS NGT that was given to Ulrich Richter .. but I had to buy another 996 GT3 MkI CS .....
ChrisW. said:
I find this very interesting.
Having owned every variety of 964RS with the exception of the Touring, a 993RS, every 996GT3 and a 997GT3 --- whilst driving every other GT3 up to 991 including the famous 4.0L on track (yes it was great) --- I chipped them all to buy again the best 996 MkI GT3 CS RHD that I could find.
It wasn't cheap, I may even have paid too much for it, but for me this is the car that best reflects the compact, visceral, tactile, playful, motorsport inspired essence of Porsche. It also has that ultra simple slightly old school hewn from granite feel which I adore.
From all the old cars that I drove and improved, I decided to keep a very sweet non original numbers LHD 2.4S with the 915 box ... the last of the old-timers and not too expensive to use and in superb condition.
Chalk and cheese, but what lovey cars and the best thing is that they are both so understated.
Will I have made the best decision ? Who knows ? I sold the development 993RS Prototype and the 964RS NGT that was given to Ulrich Richter .. but I had to buy another 996 GT3 MkI CS .....
Every 6 months or so I come back to a 996.1 as the car that probably does it all for me .... still haven't bought one though. One day .....Having owned every variety of 964RS with the exception of the Touring, a 993RS, every 996GT3 and a 997GT3 --- whilst driving every other GT3 up to 991 including the famous 4.0L on track (yes it was great) --- I chipped them all to buy again the best 996 MkI GT3 CS RHD that I could find.
It wasn't cheap, I may even have paid too much for it, but for me this is the car that best reflects the compact, visceral, tactile, playful, motorsport inspired essence of Porsche. It also has that ultra simple slightly old school hewn from granite feel which I adore.
From all the old cars that I drove and improved, I decided to keep a very sweet non original numbers LHD 2.4S with the 915 box ... the last of the old-timers and not too expensive to use and in superb condition.
Chalk and cheese, but what lovey cars and the best thing is that they are both so understated.
Will I have made the best decision ? Who knows ? I sold the development 993RS Prototype and the 964RS NGT that was given to Ulrich Richter .. but I had to buy another 996 GT3 MkI CS .....
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff