Day #3 Tuscan Ownership - Starting Issues!
Discussion
Hoping someone might be able to help out with this one!
Happy to be joining with my first TVR after about 15 years of lusting after them.. Unfortunately the car has been presenting some starting issues whereby the car is *very* sluggish to turn over. Whereas you'd normally a constant turning over I am getting some movement from the starter followed by a hesitation for maybe half a second (or more). The voltage on the pod drops to 7-8v during cranking and this is actually usually enough to start the car - just. Though I have had 2 bump starts already so this isn't always the case! Once from a drunk guy at 3am and once from a couple of amused Halfords employees. I'm aware there are hot start issues with the car too so this probably doesn't help.
I've just replaced the battery so that shouldn't be an issue and the car does sometimes turn over in what I would consider to be a 'normal' fashion, though there doesn't seem to be any particular logic to it. Sometimes it turns easily sometimes it seems to be quite laboured.
The voltage at rest on the pod displays around 11.8v when the car is off - a mulitmeter in the Anderson Connector displays closer to 12.7v which is more reassuring. When the car is running, and taken for a bit of a blast, the pod voltage reading never strays above around 13.1v whereas the voltage via the Anderson whist the car is running shoots straight to 14v which I presume rules out the 100A fuse and Alternator. Not sure if this difference in voltage between the pod and multimeter is a symptom or if it's a case of 'They all do that, sir'.
I have also attempted to clean the ground points... one below on the nut pictured to the left of the caliper on the OSF (caliper pictured for perspective!) but I can't for the life of me find the other one near the drivers front wheel. All grounds are good at the battery, too.
My instinct is telling me it might well be the starter motor, but don't want to toss away part of the TVR running fund so early on in ownership if I'm missing something else obvious!
Any assistance would be very much appreciated
Dave.
Happy to be joining with my first TVR after about 15 years of lusting after them.. Unfortunately the car has been presenting some starting issues whereby the car is *very* sluggish to turn over. Whereas you'd normally a constant turning over I am getting some movement from the starter followed by a hesitation for maybe half a second (or more). The voltage on the pod drops to 7-8v during cranking and this is actually usually enough to start the car - just. Though I have had 2 bump starts already so this isn't always the case! Once from a drunk guy at 3am and once from a couple of amused Halfords employees. I'm aware there are hot start issues with the car too so this probably doesn't help.
I've just replaced the battery so that shouldn't be an issue and the car does sometimes turn over in what I would consider to be a 'normal' fashion, though there doesn't seem to be any particular logic to it. Sometimes it turns easily sometimes it seems to be quite laboured.
The voltage at rest on the pod displays around 11.8v when the car is off - a mulitmeter in the Anderson Connector displays closer to 12.7v which is more reassuring. When the car is running, and taken for a bit of a blast, the pod voltage reading never strays above around 13.1v whereas the voltage via the Anderson whist the car is running shoots straight to 14v which I presume rules out the 100A fuse and Alternator. Not sure if this difference in voltage between the pod and multimeter is a symptom or if it's a case of 'They all do that, sir'.
I have also attempted to clean the ground points... one below on the nut pictured to the left of the caliper on the OSF (caliper pictured for perspective!) but I can't for the life of me find the other one near the drivers front wheel. All grounds are good at the battery, too.
My instinct is telling me it might well be the starter motor, but don't want to toss away part of the TVR running fund so early on in ownership if I'm missing something else obvious!
Any assistance would be very much appreciated
Dave.
Edited by UncleDave on Monday 17th July 21:19
I'd try getting a reading at the battery whilst cranking, if there is a large drop in voltage then the battery is probably to blame. Have you tried with another battery through the Anderson connector? Again if it starts properly it is likely to be your battery at fault.
Sorry just re-read and noticed that you have put in a new battery recently, so unlikely to be the battery then!
Earth or starter motor are likely culprits then.
Sorry just re-read and noticed that you have put in a new battery recently, so unlikely to be the battery then!
Earth or starter motor are likely culprits then.
Edited by Chim450 on Monday 17th July 21:37
Christ I'm an idiot - I don't know why I didn't think of that. I only found the Anderson jump leads in the boot about an hour ago and it's been a long day - so that probably didn't help!
Just added in the 'dud' battery via the anderson and it seems to start repeatedly with no issues. Thanks for that!
To be honest I really didn't expect a brand new £140 battery not to work - I suppose that's what happens when you go to Halfords as a one off instead of my usual Motor Factors.
I've cut the
lugs off the thing now (it was an 096 recommended by a few people on here - a bit too big for the tray) so I hope to god they cover it under warranty now - the decent thing to do since it'll be less than 24hrs since they sold it to me!
Just added in the 'dud' battery via the anderson and it seems to start repeatedly with no issues. Thanks for that!
To be honest I really didn't expect a brand new £140 battery not to work - I suppose that's what happens when you go to Halfords as a one off instead of my usual Motor Factors.
I've cut the
lugs off the thing now (it was an 096 recommended by a few people on here - a bit too big for the tray) so I hope to god they cover it under warranty now - the decent thing to do since it'll be less than 24hrs since they sold it to me!UncleDave, I had this problem for years. Worse on hot starts. Replaced batteries, checked earths etc etc. Finally Racetch launched an upgraded starter motor which I went for. The original is under powered and I think from a BMW 316?.
This is one of the best upgrades ever. Link to my original post below. Starts like nothing on earth and no more worries at the petrol pumps if it will embarrass by not starting. You won't regret the money. Happy to show you mine if you ever in the Cirencester area.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
This is one of the best upgrades ever. Link to my original post below. Starts like nothing on earth and no more worries at the petrol pumps if it will embarrass by not starting. You won't regret the money. Happy to show you mine if you ever in the Cirencester area.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by Curdster on Monday 17th July 21:44
UncleDave said:
I've cut the lugs off the thing now (it was an 096 recommended by a few people on here - a bit too big for the tray) so I hope to god they cover it under warranty now - the decent thing to do since it'll be less than 24hrs since they sold it to me!
Not long fitted one of these to mine lugs off the thing now (it was an 096 recommended by a few people on here - a bit too big for the tray) so I hope to god they cover it under warranty now - the decent thing to do since it'll be less than 24hrs since they sold it to me!https://www.tayna.co.uk/E24-Varta-Blue-Dynamic-Car...
Starts very quickly now and fits perfectly.
Hmm... Yeah having the second battery connected via the Anderson does seem to have solved it, though I will clean all the earths anyway, and maybe the uprated starter will be an option too a bit further down the line.
So... I now have two batteries connected and the car works perfectly it seems... Safe to assume that the new battery is shagged too? Or could the extra boost of two batteries still be covering for another issue?
So... I now have two batteries connected and the car works perfectly it seems... Safe to assume that the new battery is shagged too? Or could the extra boost of two batteries still be covering for another issue?
The extra battery is helping to overcome the resistance in the circuit with poor earths perhaps...
Have you removed the earth cables completely and cleaned the mounting points. The other is behind the battery.
The standard starter should work fine if everything else is up to scratch.
Probably unlikely but the diode pack on the alternator may be fubar'd and draining your batteries like Oliver reed drinking at a wedding.
Can you ask the previous owner what they did.. before thanking them
with a barrage of abuse.
Have you removed the earth cables completely and cleaned the mounting points. The other is behind the battery.
The standard starter should work fine if everything else is up to scratch.
Probably unlikely but the diode pack on the alternator may be fubar'd and draining your batteries like Oliver reed drinking at a wedding.
Can you ask the previous owner what they did.. before thanking them
with a barrage of abuse. Edited by m4tti on Monday 17th July 23:14
Edited by m4tti on Monday 17th July 23:23
UncleDave, you are clutching at straws unless you test the starter circuit correctly
What you need to do is remove the fuel pump fuse to stop the engine from firing and connect a Voltmeter to the battery and check the voltage while cranking the engine over
Now carry out the same procedure but this time connect a Voltmeter to the body of the starter motor (Not the engine. It has to be the starter barrel or starter drive end bracket) and the positive stud of the starter solenoid (Not the starter positive lead that connects to the positive stud. It has to be the positive solenoid stud that the positive lead connects to)
Once you have these readings post them here
I would possibly confuse you If I was to go into detail now about what readings I would expect, it is better for you to post the readings before I post my thoughts
If the new battery you have fitted is of the lead acid type then there is a very good chance that Halfords like most companies had it on a shelf in a dry charged state and filled it before selling it to you, there are times when a battery is filled by a company ready for sale and then it is unsold and stands for a length of time doing nothing but sulphating its plates
If the above is the case with your battery a 12 hour charge before carrying out the above tests will make a big difference
What you need to do is remove the fuel pump fuse to stop the engine from firing and connect a Voltmeter to the battery and check the voltage while cranking the engine over
Now carry out the same procedure but this time connect a Voltmeter to the body of the starter motor (Not the engine. It has to be the starter barrel or starter drive end bracket) and the positive stud of the starter solenoid (Not the starter positive lead that connects to the positive stud. It has to be the positive solenoid stud that the positive lead connects to)
Once you have these readings post them here
I would possibly confuse you If I was to go into detail now about what readings I would expect, it is better for you to post the readings before I post my thoughts
If the new battery you have fitted is of the lead acid type then there is a very good chance that Halfords like most companies had it on a shelf in a dry charged state and filled it before selling it to you, there are times when a battery is filled by a company ready for sale and then it is unsold and stands for a length of time doing nothing but sulphating its plates
If the above is the case with your battery a 12 hour charge before carrying out the above tests will make a big difference
Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 18th July 12:08
If the battery and earths are good change the starter motor to a 1.7KW one from TVR parts. I had a similar issue with my 2006 Tuscan S recently and the new starter turns a lot quicker than the original BMW branded 1.7KW item ever did. If you have the lower power starter motor you might have to modify the air box mounting bracket to suit as the higher power starter is longer.
Edited by NCE 61 on Tuesday 18th July 18:46
The situation appears to have changed (again) - ha.
I've still got around 12.7v at the battery, I cleaned a couple of earths this morning and the car seemed to be starting and turning over absolutely fine 3-4 times, which it never used to do without struggling.
Bingo! That must have been the problem... so decided I'd go and get some petrol then give it a quick blast. Came to start it and it has now stopped turning over completely! It clicks when you turn the ignition, and clicks when you release - which I assume is the Starter Solenoid. Nothing. I've even tried with a third known good battery and still nothing. Whilst this is happening the battery drops to around 12.2v.
I've connected the Anderson negative to the engine close to the starter to rule out grounding issues with no luck.
So... Guessing it's a new starter motor time or even something immobiliser related maybe? Though I can hear the fuel pump priming when I disable the immobiliser so I'm not convinced by that.
Was just at the brink of booking it in somewhere as it's taken the shine off having a new car slightly, but now I can't even get it there
I've still got around 12.7v at the battery, I cleaned a couple of earths this morning and the car seemed to be starting and turning over absolutely fine 3-4 times, which it never used to do without struggling.
Bingo! That must have been the problem... so decided I'd go and get some petrol then give it a quick blast. Came to start it and it has now stopped turning over completely! It clicks when you turn the ignition, and clicks when you release - which I assume is the Starter Solenoid. Nothing. I've even tried with a third known good battery and still nothing. Whilst this is happening the battery drops to around 12.2v.
I've connected the Anderson negative to the engine close to the starter to rule out grounding issues with no luck.
So... Guessing it's a new starter motor time or even something immobiliser related maybe? Though I can hear the fuel pump priming when I disable the immobiliser so I'm not convinced by that.
Was just at the brink of booking it in somewhere as it's taken the shine off having a new car slightly, but now I can't even get it there
UncleDave said:
The situation appears to have changed (again) - ha.
I've still got around 12.7v at the battery, I cleaned a couple of earths this morning and the car seemed to be starting and turning over absolutely fine 3-4 times, which it never used to do without struggling.
Bingo! That must have been the problem... so decided I'd go and get some petrol then give it a quick blast. Came to start it and it has now stopped turning over completely! It clicks when you turn the ignition, and clicks when you release - which I assume is the Starter Solenoid. Nothing. I've even tried with a third known good battery and still nothing. Whilst this is happening the battery drops to around 12.2v.
I've connected the Anderson negative to the engine close to the starter to rule out grounding issues with no luck.
So... Guessing it's a new starter motor time or even something immobiliser related maybe? Though I can hear the fuel pump priming when I disable the immobiliser so I'm not convinced by that.
Was just at the brink of booking it in somewhere as it's taken the shine off having a new car slightly, but now I can't even get it there
Not wanting to sound patronising but.. When you say you cleaned the earths did you fully remove the earth leads and rub back both the lead ring connector faces and the earth points on the chassis. I've still got around 12.7v at the battery, I cleaned a couple of earths this morning and the car seemed to be starting and turning over absolutely fine 3-4 times, which it never used to do without struggling.
Bingo! That must have been the problem... so decided I'd go and get some petrol then give it a quick blast. Came to start it and it has now stopped turning over completely! It clicks when you turn the ignition, and clicks when you release - which I assume is the Starter Solenoid. Nothing. I've even tried with a third known good battery and still nothing. Whilst this is happening the battery drops to around 12.2v.
I've connected the Anderson negative to the engine close to the starter to rule out grounding issues with no luck.
So... Guessing it's a new starter motor time or even something immobiliser related maybe? Though I can hear the fuel pump priming when I disable the immobiliser so I'm not convinced by that.
Was just at the brink of booking it in somewhere as it's taken the shine off having a new car slightly, but now I can't even get it there
Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 18th July 18:20
Just a quick update just in case anyone finds this thread in the future!
I had cleaned and sanded back the earth points and I'd tried earthing the engine direct to the battery (-) via the Anderson connector multiple times using some pretty hefty jump leads with no result and eventually determined it was likely the starter at fault.
After removing the starter and bench testing it, determined the motor itself was working fine but the starter solenoid was knackered.
Luckily, if anyone is in the same boat the solenoids are very cheap and can be replaced seperately. In my case, I took it to a local and very old-school Automotive Electrical repair shop. They replaced the brushes in the starter and reconditioned it, then replaced the starter solenoid too. The whole thing came back looking quite literally as good as new for £50.
Sorted, and now the car turns over hot or cold with no issues at all.
The shop was Electro Diesel in Worksop just in case anyone is in the Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire/S Yorkshire area
I had cleaned and sanded back the earth points and I'd tried earthing the engine direct to the battery (-) via the Anderson connector multiple times using some pretty hefty jump leads with no result and eventually determined it was likely the starter at fault.
After removing the starter and bench testing it, determined the motor itself was working fine but the starter solenoid was knackered.
Luckily, if anyone is in the same boat the solenoids are very cheap and can be replaced seperately. In my case, I took it to a local and very old-school Automotive Electrical repair shop. They replaced the brushes in the starter and reconditioned it, then replaced the starter solenoid too. The whole thing came back looking quite literally as good as new for £50.
Sorted, and now the car turns over hot or cold with no issues at all.
The shop was Electro Diesel in Worksop just in case anyone is in the Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire/S Yorkshire area
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