Lotus in DEEP Trouble?

Lotus in DEEP Trouble?

Author
Discussion

sisu

2,576 posts

172 months

Thursday 5th April 2012
quotequote all
hmmm Dany Bahar has quit, but Kimi says lotus is ok

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Thursday 5th April 2012
quotequote all
sisu said:
hmmm Dany Bahar has quit, but Kimi says lotus is ok
Is this real news re D Bahaha?

sisu

2,576 posts

172 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
kimi let it slip in finnish when he admitted that the real reason he left WRC is that he couldn't get used to the co-driver yelling instructions a corner ahead. They then put the headline of dany bahar quiting on YLE TV.

Redlake27

2,255 posts

243 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
So today Group Lotus have announced that they are not sponsoring Lotus F1 (Genii) anymore. But Genii can carry on using the brand.

I'm not sure what this means for all the LMP, F3 and Indy teams that Lotus are sponsoring.

I'm a bit confused, but I can only assume Genii will try and buy Group Lotus now.


Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
This means Proton is about to give Lotus the sack........about Bloody time. They might try to "Float" Lotus, only to watch it sink like a brick!....Why buy an Espirt when the R8/911 or even GTR is already there?

Elise?........Both Toyota & Scobby have the (same) answer not to mention lots of cheap Hot Hatches.........

Nope (snigger) they stuffed like Turkey!
Mike

ShampooEfficient

4,266 posts

210 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Agem said:
Nope (snigger) they stuffed like Turkey!
And you seem to take a perverse delight in this?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
This could be very good news for Caterham!

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Agem said:
This means Proton is about to give Lotus the sack........about Bloody time. They might try to "Float" Lotus, only to watch it sink like a brick!....Why buy an Espirt when the R8/911 or even GTR is already there?

Elise?........Both Toyota & Scobby have the (same) answer not to mention lots of cheap Hot Hatches.........

Nope (snigger) they stuffed like Turkey!
Mike
Lotus are a great and historic brand killed by a lack of investment and until recently management with no vision, they have needed a halo car for 20 years...

Look what Aston have achieved

Gabber

83 posts

182 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
So today Group Lotus have announced that they are not sponsoring Lotus F1 (Genii) anymore. But Genii can carry on using the brand.

I'm not sure what this means for all the LMP, F3 and Indy teams that Lotus are sponsoring.

I'm a bit confused, but I can only assume Genii will try and buy Group Lotus now.
Can someone show me this so called Group Lotus announcement.....No because there is not one. This story was told 3 weeks ago so nothing new.

Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
"Look what Aston have achieved "

I think your find they are in the same boat.

Trouble is fast is not enough, you need cutting edge tec, low CO2 BIG MPG....Look at what the new 911 can do & its cyinder on demand/ its KERS system is not yet ready.

Both Lotus & Aston use alloy beam tubs, very high tech....in the 90's. Carbon tubs are the way & neither Lotus or Aston can afford the R+D.

Mike

Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
"And you seem to take a perverse delight in this?"

In a word, YES !

Gabber

83 posts

182 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Agem said:
This means Proton is about to give Lotus the sack........about Bloody time. They might try to "Float" Lotus, only to watch it sink like a brick!....Why buy an Espirt when the R8/911 or even GTR is already there?

Elise?........Both Toyota & Scobby have the (same) answer not to mention lots of cheap Hot Hatches.........

Nope (snigger) they stuffed like Turkey!
Mike
Why buy an Esprit...because it is special and you can not say that about a R8 or 911
Elise.....show me one hot hatch or Toyota & Scobby that still looks so good as the Elise does after all these years ?


Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Your missing the point, Lotus FAIL to make money...Porsche/Audi/BMW/Merc DO!
Mike

Gabber

83 posts

182 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Agem said:
Your missing the point, Lotus FAIL to make money...Porsche/Audi/BMW/Merc DO!
Mike
That is true but you need to invest first before you can make money.

By the way did you ever see how big the debt of Porsche is ?

Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Porsche did the unthinkable & built that 4X4, everyone screamed, Porsche cleaned up. I hate it & i hate the 4 door...but They make money. I think your find BMW are making money & Audi (Whom own Porsche or rather VAG own them both) Made LOTS of money.......

They have the best engineers the best budgets for R+D......DSG gearbox is theirs.......

Lotus has lost money since Proton took over & Proton invested in them.

Mike
Oh Here some of that lovely Lotus Build Q:-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3128945232...

Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Friday 6th April 2012
quotequote all
Porsche 2011 Profit...$2.5 BILLION
Audi 2011 Profit......$3.5 BILLION

Hmmmmm
Mike

sisu

2,576 posts

172 months

Saturday 7th April 2012
quotequote all
Gabber said:
Can someone show me this so called Group Lotus announcement.....No because there is not one. This story was told 3 weeks ago so nothing new.
This explains the background of what is happening here
It is made worse by the skitzoprenic slim shaddy identity of what actually is Lotus.
When you reflect this against the slow and steady growth of Morgan Motor company their rebirth over the past 3 years. You can see what can happen when it is done well and then you look at Lotus and go WFT?

Agem

Original Poster:

132 posts

164 months

Saturday 7th April 2012
quotequote all
Morgan compete with whom?
If you want a Morgan, well its Morgan......

If you want Lotus, its Porsche/BMW/Merc/Audi/Nissan.....even Hot hatches or the new GT86/Scobby thing.....

Gabber

83 posts

182 months

Saturday 7th April 2012
quotequote all
Agem said:
Morgan compete with whom?
If you want a Morgan, well its Morgan......

If you want Lotus, its Porsche/BMW/Merc/Audi/Nissan.....even Hot hatches or the new GT86/Scobby thing.....
If you want a Kia, its VW Peugeot Renault Skoda Seat.....
If you want a BMW its Merc Audi Lexus.....
If you want a Fiat its Nissan, Kia, Chevrolet...

What is your point exactly ?

Redlake27

2,255 posts

243 months

Sunday 8th April 2012
quotequote all
Gabber said:
If you want a Kia, its VW Peugeot Renault Skoda Seat.....
If you want a BMW its Merc Audi Lexus.....
If you want a Fiat its Nissan, Kia, Chevrolet...

What is your point exactly ?
I think his point maybe that when Lotus made cars like Exige and Seven, they had no rivals. The Bahar plan put Lotus in direct competition with some manufacturers that have considerably more resources. Only us Lotus fans would walk past a 458 or McLaren MP4 and get in a new Esprit.

Morgan could have made a modern bodied car and tried to sell it at 100+k they would have failed, like Bristol with the Fighter. But doing boutique AeroMaxs they play to their unique appeal.

The Europa and Evora's lack of sales success show Lotus had trouble being considered as a maker of all-purpose sports cars, rather than a maker of brilliant Sunday morning/track cars.

I've owned Elise, Seven, Europa ad desperately wanted an Evora next. But after testing one, and realising that it was better in some ways, but not all, than a Cayman, I became nervous of its durability and practicality and opted for the Porsche. I sometimes regret it, but the damage done to the Lotus brand and values in the last year by the Bahar-dream means I'm glad with my choice.

My point is, if a hardcore Lotus fan like me can't bring myself too spend over 30k on a Lotus, the more cynical, nervous or mainstream buyers out there won't bother....

I don't care whether Fernandes, Tata or Genii end up owning Lotus. But their future success depends on 'doing a Morgan' and making the most of what they have got, rather than trying to be Porsche and Ferrari.