Lotus in DEEP Trouble?
Discussion
Redlake27 is dead right. Baher is bonkers in thinking that they can compete against high end German marques. Making the best trackday car was something Noble were good at until they tried to move into another market.
Ginetta have shown the way forward – go affordable motor racing. I like the idea of the Lotus name on an F1 car and thought Fernades was spot-on, until Baher stepped-in.
Ginetta have shown the way forward – go affordable motor racing. I like the idea of the Lotus name on an F1 car and thought Fernades was spot-on, until Baher stepped-in.
sisu said:
Then buy a VW Bluesport Roadster next year or the year after that or when ever feck they get around to launching it.
In the mean time better call Dan Trent as he may face certain death this weekend, his life is in your hands.
Don't know what you are talking about all I know is this Evora looks stunning !In the mean time better call Dan Trent as he may face certain death this weekend, his life is in your hands.
sisu said:
Yeah what is your point?
WTF does someone else breaking or crashing their car have to do with how well a company is doing?
Ferrari 458s catching fire didn't seem to dampen the enthusiasm for owning one.
im not so sure, if a brand is consistently suffering catastrophic mechanical failure and people are getting hurt because of it I would want to know.WTF does someone else breaking or crashing their car have to do with how well a company is doing?
Ferrari 458s catching fire didn't seem to dampen the enthusiasm for owning one.
I call bull s
t.
If the problem is that bad then someone in the aftermarket place who deal with Lotus's like Hanger 111 would offer an upgrade/improved version for this inherent problem as they make money servicing these.
Do they offer this? Nope.
Before you offer up more fricken examples of Californian guys crashing go tell someone who cares.
t. If the problem is that bad then someone in the aftermarket place who deal with Lotus's like Hanger 111 would offer an upgrade/improved version for this inherent problem as they make money servicing these.
Do they offer this? Nope.
Before you offer up more fricken examples of Californian guys crashing go tell someone who cares.
For the first time ever I saw two Evoras on the road on Saturday, rarely ever see one in a day let alone.
For some interesting insight into how much money they are wasting read this link, Lotus rented a house for Bahaha and he then instructed builders to do some upgrades to his RENTED house.
£375,000 worth of work to a rented house to keep him happy!
http://www.edp24.co.uk/home/builder_s_high_court_c...
For some interesting insight into how much money they are wasting read this link, Lotus rented a house for Bahaha and he then instructed builders to do some upgrades to his RENTED house.
£375,000 worth of work to a rented house to keep him happy!
http://www.edp24.co.uk/home/builder_s_high_court_c...
Agem said:
they can't stand toe 2 toe with VW.
Mike
Thank God for that. We've got enough expensive white goods snoremobiles with a largely unjustified reputation for quality, bought by badge snobs who confuse rock hard damping and 20" wheels with 'sporty' as it is, thanksverymuch.Mike
Really disappointed about Evo's 911 comparo verdict, too. I thought their tag line was 'the thrill of driving' - then they cut the Evora S part of the review really short by saying that yes, it does offer exactly that but the quality isn't up to Porsche standards. The very early Evora I had for a week back then was acceptable by any reasonable standard - the interior finish attracted no negative comments at all from people who were used to mass-production barges; nothing fell off or made the impression it would, switchgear felt about as 'right'as a BMW's; in fact the only thing I'd have held against it was an indifferent shift quality - and I've seen/driven enough new cars to compare. If a £60K car has a £40K interior but drives well enough to keep level with £80K cars I expect Autocar to give a balanced verdict, but given where they say they come from I'd have expected Evo to champion it on the strength of its driving - as they did 3 years ago when they declared the Evora ECOTY.
About commercial success - well, to me as with the above, plus the proliferance of Playstation controls and heavy metal folding roofs in Ferraris, and crass six-figure SUVs it's a sign the balance in the marketplace has been shifting from people who care about their driving to 'aspirational buyers' mostly from outside the old world for quite a while now. I'd have thought us petrolheads to support whatever bastions of enthusuast motoring we have left rather than to slate them for not being bl00dy Volkswagen.
It seems that in the meantime, Evo's priorities have changed somewhat.
900T-R said:
If a £60K car has a £40K interior but drives well enough to keep level with £80K cars I expect Autocar to give a balanced verdict, but given where they say they come from I'd have expected Evo to champion it on the strength of its driving - as they did 3 years ago when they declared the Evora ECOTY.
About commercial success - well, to me as with the above
You have fallen into the same trap that Lotus have. Expecting to sell a £60k car that feels like a £40k car will never be a commercial success.About commercial success - well, to me as with the above
Your argument about driving experience only holds water when driving it like a sports car or on the track, but for the other 80/90% of time when driving on normal roads in traffic things like the quality start to irk. The brands you scoff at understand this and get in right, this is what commercial success is about.
Lotus has made the same mistake as many specialists and assumed that a "one trick pony" excellence model can enable them to compete with much more rounded manufacturers. There simply aren't enough people willing to pay the money they demand for a demonstrably inferiorn package.
S
skeeterm5 said:
You have fallen into the same trap that Lotus have.
No, I don't think so. It's just that from a £15K MINI upwards, the stuff mainstream brands offer as 'extra' quality are a bit meaningless to me as I don't tend to notice them while driving. A very posh Audi or Mercedes still feels rather mass-produced and generic to me. skeeterm5 said:
Your argument about driving experience only holds water when driving it like a sports car or on the track, but for the other 80/90% of time when driving on normal roads in traffic things like the quality start to irk.
Like what, exactly? I've driven the Evora for hundreds of miles on end and really didn't find anything to argue with, with the exception of that gearshift, and the driveline not being the most evocative.The levels of isolation from the surroundings and (conversely) the lumpen ride of most competitors, or when you can't find a decent driving position - those are things that start to irk after a while. A leather-covered interior panel that may have a 1 mm bigger gap on the left than it has on the right, doesn't.
Thing is, when I drive a 911 on normal roads in traffic it doesn't feel anything special to me. The Lotus did -the driving position, the steering, the ride and balance all shone right through from the moment I set off.
Conversely, I find most cars 'fun' on track. Getting towards the edge of the performance envelope of a machine is nearly always exciting/kinvolving. It's how a car feels and communicates with you at low to middling acceleration levels (both longitudinal and lateral) that defines a great car iMO.
900T-R. I know exactly what you're saying and I agree with you about old-fashioned driving dynamics being paramount. BUT you are in a microscopic minority EVEN within the so-called "enthusiast" community that populates PH. I guess 99% of people who think they are car enthusiasts don't understand CoG, lateral grip vs traction, weight transfers etc so what is the point of a Company trying to sell to a population that almost doesn't exist ? Far better to do a decent (albeit soporiphic and bland compared to the way an Exige drives) performance car and then cram it in with marketing BS (torque vectoring, 150% added torsional rigidity etc etc). The Germans are very good at that. Unfort., this side of a Caterham, road cars are effectively consumer products, however "sporty" the consumer think he needs a car to be.
900T-R said:
Agem said:
they can't stand toe 2 toe with VW.
Mike
Thank God for that. We've got enough expensive white goods snoremobiles with a largely unjustified reputation for quality, bought by badge snobs who confuse rock hard damping and 20" wheels with 'sporty' as it is, thanksverymuch. Mike
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