Armageddon for modified car owners
Discussion
OK then. Leave the EU. Send all the EU nationals back home. Welcome all the retired Brits living in the EU instead back home and give them the jobs left vacant. Hold on a minute, that won't work, will it ? Because a lot of the non-Brits EU nationals here atm have a job based on skills that we need, like languages for instance. Which the older Brits retired in the EU don't have.
Simplistic approach I am afraid.
Simplistic approach I am afraid.
Dear Sirs,
I've come to this thread with my pre-existing views about the EU - which I like to share - and I've interpreted the subject at hand in a not wholly rational way such that it supports those very opinions.
May I therefore present you with a load of bilge.
Yours frantically,
A Poster
I've come to this thread with my pre-existing views about the EU - which I like to share - and I've interpreted the subject at hand in a not wholly rational way such that it supports those very opinions.
May I therefore present you with a load of bilge.
Yours frantically,
A Poster
Backwards. I'm a modded car owner who stumbled across a thread pointing out some unexpected bad news for me, that as it transpired, happened to be because of yet more dicatorial intentions from the EU. That they add to an already huge list of gripes that damage the way my country runs, only serves to bolster my the correctness of my current opinion. An opinion in a democracy that I am wholly entitled to.
If only it had nothing to do with the EU, but unfortunately, yet again, it does.
There's a reason why the PM feels pressured to talk about EU referendums... (and then burry them as yet another hollow promise, no doubt to be used to obtain votes by the next election ho-hum).
There's also a reason why Farrage manages to cut down our "leaders" and MEPs with such ease everytime... all he has to do is speak sense.
If only it had nothing to do with the EU, but unfortunately, yet again, it does.
There's a reason why the PM feels pressured to talk about EU referendums... (and then burry them as yet another hollow promise, no doubt to be used to obtain votes by the next election ho-hum).
There's also a reason why Farrage manages to cut down our "leaders" and MEPs with such ease everytime... all he has to do is speak sense.
Oh btw,
There are only around 250,000 UK nationals outside Britain in the EU (e.g. and old example source http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2009/02/eu-worke... Expelling the recent 2 million immigrants still creates around 1.75 million job vacancies.
Rr, but "retired" Brits? WTF? You would make retired people work? Or wouldn't they be retired there and just come over here and still be retired? :s
There are no skills that we are in need of that we hadn't already been doing ourselves. Britons had been doing the same jobs just fine before being ousted by someone who will and can work for less than the minimum wage, because rather than live in houses, pay tax and feed children, some can even live on riverbanks and eat swans, much less actually go through proper immigration checks.
Some dumb Labour politician (forget name and who cares?) had the same argument on question time once when arguing who would pick the crops if we send all the migrants home, to which Nigel Farrage simply cut-down with obvious sense - Who do you think were picking in the crops before the migrants arrived?
It's the same for brick layers, plumbers, cleaners, dustbin men, and interpreters...
And interpreters. This is like the anti-virus software houses writing viruses conspiracy, except that it's real. Moving a group of aliens in that speak the language blurg also creates the need for interpreters who speak blurg. Convenient that there are aliens moving in who already speak blurg init? Creating their own jobs as a cure for the problem they created themselves? Please! It's like some feebly veiled attempt at employment blackmail.
When 2014 comes about... well, you haven't seen anything yet...
Anyway, migration of people prepared to live and work in virtual poverty, lowering the standard of living for EVERYONE else, it's just one problem with the EU. Tell me I can no longer mod my cars, despite having been modded fine and passing an already existing UK road safety standard called the MOT, for over 10 years, is a simple moral and intellectual retrospective insult.
There is one pattern continually follows in history. An establishment or dictator pushes and pushes until eventually the people cry enough. Historically, it's a virtual guarantee.
nickfrog said:
OK then. Leave the EU. Send all the EU nationals back home. Welcome all the retired Brits living in the EU instead back home and give them the jobs left vacant. Hold on a minute, that won't work, will it ? Because a lot of the non-Brits EU nationals here atm have a job based on skills that we need, like languages for instance. Which the older Brits retired in the EU don't have.
Nice retort, but I couldn't see it as more wrong.There are only around 250,000 UK nationals outside Britain in the EU (e.g. and old example source http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2009/02/eu-worke... Expelling the recent 2 million immigrants still creates around 1.75 million job vacancies.
Rr, but "retired" Brits? WTF? You would make retired people work? Or wouldn't they be retired there and just come over here and still be retired? :s
There are no skills that we are in need of that we hadn't already been doing ourselves. Britons had been doing the same jobs just fine before being ousted by someone who will and can work for less than the minimum wage, because rather than live in houses, pay tax and feed children, some can even live on riverbanks and eat swans, much less actually go through proper immigration checks.
Some dumb Labour politician (forget name and who cares?) had the same argument on question time once when arguing who would pick the crops if we send all the migrants home, to which Nigel Farrage simply cut-down with obvious sense - Who do you think were picking in the crops before the migrants arrived?
It's the same for brick layers, plumbers, cleaners, dustbin men, and interpreters...
And interpreters. This is like the anti-virus software houses writing viruses conspiracy, except that it's real. Moving a group of aliens in that speak the language blurg also creates the need for interpreters who speak blurg. Convenient that there are aliens moving in who already speak blurg init? Creating their own jobs as a cure for the problem they created themselves? Please! It's like some feebly veiled attempt at employment blackmail.
When 2014 comes about... well, you haven't seen anything yet...
Anyway, migration of people prepared to live and work in virtual poverty, lowering the standard of living for EVERYONE else, it's just one problem with the EU. Tell me I can no longer mod my cars, despite having been modded fine and passing an already existing UK road safety standard called the MOT, for over 10 years, is a simple moral and intellectual retrospective insult.
There is one pattern continually follows in history. An establishment or dictator pushes and pushes until eventually the people cry enough. Historically, it's a virtual guarantee.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 21st February 10:56
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 21st February 11:13
mattikake said:
There are only around 250,000 UK nationals outside Britain in the EU
If you genuinely think that, I can see why you fall for Farage's rhetoric too. http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/commentary/eu...We do indeed have a net-stock with the rest of the EU, maybe half to 3/4 of a million but we have more OAPs (I don't expect them to work btw) within the ranks of Brits in the EU compared to EU immigration in the UK, so the social cost of bringing them back would be huge compared to the low social/health cost of active EU non-Brits in the UK (like me).
As for skills, go and spend an afternoon in the City, you might understand a bit more about the needs for EU wide presence there. You might also be surprised how much tax non-Brits EU residents pay here (like me).
As for work ethics, as an employer, I find that non-Brit workers turn up for work with much more regularity than "local" workforce (for the same pay btw). This is corroborated by other employers I speak to. Don't know why. But there is a strong incentive to use non-Brit EU labour rather than British.
I think a lot of things are WRONG with the EU, and I would include immigration policies actually.
I also think it would be suicidal to leave the EU because of the simplistic views of Daily Mail readers, rather than try and enforce reforms.
But possibly even worse are the 5 years of uncertainty that Cameron has imposed.
Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 21st February 23:05
tbh I got most of those figures from BBC/ITV/Sky news. 250K:2m was mentioned a week or so ago. You could probably get stats from numerous websites. I certainly would not trust government figures at all. All I know is, quoted figures only keep increasing.
It's real world where it counts. Like the huge number of people I hear walking around town that aren;t speaking English to their mate or on the phone. Or the people in a shop really struggling to buy something. I mean, yeah some could be tourists or visitors (what, in Northampton or Milton Keynes?! lol), but the vast majoriy must be residents. It seems to be every other person - 50:50! Probably just me though... or maybe the scummy shops I visit.
Boston is an unbelieveable situation. I used to live there a few years ago and it was bad then. I'm in contact with some people there and it really is terrible.. sorry, amazing. It's always in my parents local news as well (Yella Bellies). I feel sorry for the locals.
I have no problem at all with true skilled immigrants who are well educated, can speak good English and do a job in the same way for the same rates as the Brits, but the sad fact is, most of these people are right at the bottom end of the employment ladder and are prepared to work for less than the minimum wage, something that the original job owners simply can't compete with because they have mortgages to pay, kids to school etc. This leaves the original Brit to move to a higher skilled job and offer their less-qualified/experienced services at a lower rate in order to compete. ...and of course the person they are forced to out-compete, then has to move up for less money and so on. It's a knock on effect and the ultimate result is eventually the standard of living lowers for everyone.
I know people in I.T. working for less and longer hours (the main reason I quit I.T.). Forklift truck drivers who are now going back to college because an immigrant is doing their job for less pay.
Mixing the highly skilled with the lowest skilled simply creates an average that is lower than the standard we had.
It's real world where it counts. Like the huge number of people I hear walking around town that aren;t speaking English to their mate or on the phone. Or the people in a shop really struggling to buy something. I mean, yeah some could be tourists or visitors (what, in Northampton or Milton Keynes?! lol), but the vast majoriy must be residents. It seems to be every other person - 50:50! Probably just me though... or maybe the scummy shops I visit.
Boston is an unbelieveable situation. I used to live there a few years ago and it was bad then. I'm in contact with some people there and it really is terrible.. sorry, amazing. It's always in my parents local news as well (Yella Bellies). I feel sorry for the locals.
I have no problem at all with true skilled immigrants who are well educated, can speak good English and do a job in the same way for the same rates as the Brits, but the sad fact is, most of these people are right at the bottom end of the employment ladder and are prepared to work for less than the minimum wage, something that the original job owners simply can't compete with because they have mortgages to pay, kids to school etc. This leaves the original Brit to move to a higher skilled job and offer their less-qualified/experienced services at a lower rate in order to compete. ...and of course the person they are forced to out-compete, then has to move up for less money and so on. It's a knock on effect and the ultimate result is eventually the standard of living lowers for everyone.
I know people in I.T. working for less and longer hours (the main reason I quit I.T.). Forklift truck drivers who are now going back to college because an immigrant is doing their job for less pay.
Mixing the highly skilled with the lowest skilled simply creates an average that is lower than the standard we had.
mattikake said:
the original Brit
That it the heart of the matter. There is not such a thing. Most of us come from somewhere else historically. Including me, probably including you.Are there integration problems ? Of course, and you're quite right to point them out ! There're only just temporary though.
The other myth is that EU immigrants have a lower average level of education than Brits. This is just simply untrue, unless you ignore the hordes of British uneducated chavs (for lack of a better word). The average academic level in the EU is statistically higher. It's the norm to go to University in many EU countries. And we actually get a fair share of EU graduates, who get paid THE SAME as Brits. Employers can't pay less than min wage btw.
nickfrog said:
mattikake said:
the original Brit
That it the heart of the matter. There is not such a thing. Most of us come from somewhere else historically. Including me, probably including you.But we do have countries and nations.
These are based on communities of people who have similar ideals and lifestyles. So basically the question is, how long does it take to BEHAVE like the Brits in this country of the last 50 years? Well the answer is in the question - 50 years or about 3rd generation. That's about how long it takes for people to take on the characteristics of the social surroundings.
However, the problem is not of how many people, but how many people in a given time. If more than 50% come from outside and form a majority on a local area (such as Boston), then their culture will dominate.
This is conquering and it happens by invasion.
However, someone who migrates to a new region and makes no attempt to learn the language, work to the same standards, get paid at the same rates and otherwise... compete on equal ground, as an equal... is in effect and invader, not a migrant.
It's also downright rude and disrespectful... and totally unBritish.
nickfrog said:
Are there integration problems ? Of course, and you're quite right to point them out ! There're only just temporary though.
So yeah, they are temporary, but 50 years/3 generations is the best part of a lifetime to most people. To dictatorially impose that level of discomfort is simply unfair to the quality of life to the native, who lets not forget, is supposed to live in a democracy and is supposed to have a vote on where their country leads.None of that is happening with the EU. It's civil betrayal of the right of a duely legal voter.
nickfrog said:
The other myth is that EU immigrants have a lower average level of education than Brits. This is just simply untrue,
While the standard of education thoughout the EU is good, that has little bearing (or rather counter-bearing) to those who decide to move. Those who do decide to move are looking to improve their quality of life so they are often from the bottom end of the social scale.Besides which, in all my contact with Eastern Europeans, I've never met a single one with a decent education, letters after their name, or are doing anything but an absolute bottom rung job.
I mean, look at the standard of living of the 1 million Romany's already preparing to flee to Britain from Romainia when the 2014 embargo is lifted. They don't even have homes. Their transport is a horse. Their skills are manual farming (useless here). Their own government want's rid of them and ooh look, there's a nice little dumping ground up there that dishes out benefits and "free" health care...
If only we operated a strict points system like Australia... but then, they are in full control of their own governance.
nickfrog said:
Employers can't pay less than min wage btw.
Yes they can and they do. Illegal imigrants (and the numbers are huge) crop pickers are earning less than £2 per hour. Because they are illegal, there are no means to track them for Income Tax, NI etc.Never underestimate capitalism's ability to create corruption at every turn.
mattikake said:
However, someone who migrates to a new region and makes no attempt to learn the language, work to the same standards, get paid at the same rates and otherwise... compete on equal ground, as an equal... is in effect and invader, not a migrant.
It's also downright rude and disrespectful... and totally unBritish.
In my experience, that's a minority of EU migrants.It's also downright rude and disrespectful... and totally unBritish.
The same away as in my experience there's a minority of downright rude and disrespectful Brits.
mattikake said:
the quality of life to the native, who lets not forget, is supposed to live in a democracy and is supposed to have a vote on where their country leads.
What's a native ? That's a genuine question. Do I sound like one to you for instance ?mattikake said:
Those who do decide to move are looking to improve their quality of life so they are often from the bottom end of the social scale.
Again, that doesn't match my experience. All walks of life are represented by the EU population in the UK. Everyone on the social scale wants to improve their quality of life. If anything it's far easier for the most educated to move over here.mattikake said:
Besides which, in all my contact with Eastern Europeans, I've never met a single one with a decent education, letters after their name, or are doing anything but an absolute bottom rung job.
Quite the opposite to my experience. The Polish in particular seem to be well travelled, cultured, etc etc. I'd say they often improve the breed in the UK. Again, just based on my experience. Work ethic compared to the Brits is night and day. Letters after name is not a widespread thing in the rest of the EU, irrespective of someone's qualifications. mattikake said:
I mean, look at the standard of living of the 1 million Romany's already preparing to flee to Britain from Romainia when the 2014 embargo is lifted. They don't even have homes. Their transport is a horse. Their skills are manual farming (useless here). Their own government want's rid of them and ooh look, there's a nice little dumping ground up there that dishes out benefits and "free" health care...
So should we export our millions of British chav scroungers, they fit the above description quite well.mattikake said:
nickfrog said:
Employers can't pay less than min wage btw.
Yes they can and they do. Illegal imigrants... Are you saying British employers turn a blind eye ? That doesn't match the positive description that you make of British people.
Edited by nickfrog on Friday 22 February 16:09
Well I think that's the end of that little discussion as we clearly have had completely opposing experiences. I must've "met" several thousand Eastern European migrants, and probably 500+ in a working environment. Not a single one had a position that would've commanded double figures of rate of pay (cleaners, production lines, warehouse operatives, administrators etc.)... they were all clearly my financial juniors.
Been there, done that. 50 years/3rd generation/completely absorbed the local culture/completely dissolved their original culture/automatically unconsciously consider themselves British when asked, "what is your nationality?"... "native" is just being efficient with typing.
e.g. I could never be native to any other country but this one for one or more of the reasons above. I wouldn't consider myself native anywhere else either.
Sounds like a good idea. All fair in love, war, deportation and cleaning up your streets the easy way while EU law allows it! 
What has this got to do with the EU ? If they are illegals, then by definition they're not EU nationals. Leaving the EU is not gonna help, is it ? We're not part of the Schengen zone.
Are you saying British employers turn a blind eye ? That doesn't match the positive description that you make of British people.I must've missed the part where I'm positive of Brits. You might want to read a few of my other posts! lol
Ooooh yes. Read up on Boston. There are almost daily arrests for illegals working as crop pickers.
The illegals come in with the legals. Same boats, same ports, same town, same family. An open border to one legal is an open border to all illegals. And lets not forget how many illegals are here that are still yet to be caught or counted, or those coming in off the back of a legal family member, but has not interest in registering. It is a big problem.
Of course these are the people that intend to work. Many just come here to use our benefit schemes or live off our land, regardless of our laws or culture. 1 e.g. : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1261044/Sl...
Boston is so flooded, some follow the riverbank to Peterborough.
In my eyes/experience/understanding, Britain has been more detrimentally harmed than helped with recent migration, if only because of the sheer scale. Economically, fiscally, socially, culturally, actually.
nickfrog said:
mattikake said:
the quality of life to the native, who lets not forget, is supposed to live in a democracy and is supposed to have a vote on where their country leads.
What's a native ? That's a genuine question. Do I sound like one to you for instance ? e.g. I could never be native to any other country but this one for one or more of the reasons above. I wouldn't consider myself native anywhere else either.
nickfrog said:
mattikake said:
I mean, look at the standard of living of the 1 million Romany's already preparing to flee to Britain from Romainia when the 2014 embargo is lifted. They don't even have homes. Their transport is a horse. Their skills are manual farming (useless here). Their own government want's rid of them and ooh look, there's a nice little dumping ground up there that dishes out benefits and "free" health care...
So should we export our millions of British chav scroungers, they fit the above description quite well.nickfrog said:
mattikake said:
nickfrog said:
Employers can't pay less than min wage btw.
Yes they can and they do. Illegal imigrants... Are you saying British employers turn a blind eye ? That doesn't match the positive description that you make of British people.
Ooooh yes. Read up on Boston. There are almost daily arrests for illegals working as crop pickers.
The illegals come in with the legals. Same boats, same ports, same town, same family. An open border to one legal is an open border to all illegals. And lets not forget how many illegals are here that are still yet to be caught or counted, or those coming in off the back of a legal family member, but has not interest in registering. It is a big problem.
Of course these are the people that intend to work. Many just come here to use our benefit schemes or live off our land, regardless of our laws or culture. 1 e.g. : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1261044/Sl...
Boston is so flooded, some follow the riverbank to Peterborough.
In my eyes/experience/understanding, Britain has been more detrimentally harmed than helped with recent migration, if only because of the sheer scale. Economically, fiscally, socially, culturally, actually.
Edited by mattikake on Saturday 23 February 00:29
refoman2 said:
are Eastern European warehouse operatives really more skilled than the Brit version? As round my way thats all they seem to be employed as!
Well other than taxi drivers. Makes you wonder how they do the CRB checks etc to get their licences for being a taxi driver really!
Watch "The Day The Immigrants Left" Well other than taxi drivers. Makes you wonder how they do the CRB checks etc to get their licences for being a taxi driver really!
Sobering how useless the UK participants are.
We in the UK have a misguided sense of entitlement in relation to jobs when in fact many of our unemployed are unemployable.
Fullmeister said:
refoman2 said:
are Eastern European warehouse operatives really more skilled than the Brit version? As round my way thats all they seem to be employed as!
Well other than taxi drivers. Makes you wonder how they do the CRB checks etc to get their licences for being a taxi driver really!
Watch "The Day The Immigrants Left" Well other than taxi drivers. Makes you wonder how they do the CRB checks etc to get their licences for being a taxi driver really!
Sobering how useless the UK participants are.
We in the UK have a misguided sense of entitlement in relation to jobs when in fact many of our unemployed are unemployable.
I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
mattikake said:
But being that it is our country, isn't that out perogative?
I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
I agree but you cant blame employers looking for keen efficient workers. I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
mattikake said:
But being that it is our country, isn't that out perogative?
I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
I agree but you cant blame employers looking for keen efficient workers. I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
Fullmeister said:
mattikake said:
But being that it is our country, isn't that out perogative?
I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
I agree but you cant blame employers looking for keen efficient workers. I mean, if as a result of all that, we want to pay over the odds for a a shoddy service, isn't that what makes our country, "our country"?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290949/Au...
Ok it's the wail, but still, WTF? Where did everything go so wrong?
Ok it's the wail, but still, WTF? Where did everything go so wrong?
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