Ford 1.0 Ecoboost Group Legal Action - £millions
Discussion
This issue is a total engine failure requiring cylinder head and bottom block replacement. The cost is around £5000 and 6+ weeks without a courtesy car. For cars just out of 3 yr warranty or even within 5 yrs and under average mileage is not great and worse still to not get more assistance from the manufacturer.
660 is not the total number of cases. DVSA and formally VOSA do not know the total. It is only Ford that know the true total. The DVSA could demand this info from Ford but they haven't. 660 is just the cases reported on facebook. 660 is the figure last week, it is now 720 and will accelerate with the media coverage:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3dd90c30-78c2-1...
So quoting percent failures would need to consider the magnitude of the failure event. A small relatively cheap component is much less inconvenient and often less threat to peoples safety. The true total would very likely be well over 1000 each will a bill of £5000 each.
A level sensor fix would require a full implementation to be designed and provided by Ford. Adding a level sensor is not trivial and would need wiring loom and ECU mods, just like the fix for the safety recall of the 1.6 litre from Ford published Jan 2018.
660 is not the total number of cases. DVSA and formally VOSA do not know the total. It is only Ford that know the true total. The DVSA could demand this info from Ford but they haven't. 660 is just the cases reported on facebook. 660 is the figure last week, it is now 720 and will accelerate with the media coverage:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3dd90c30-78c2-1...
So quoting percent failures would need to consider the magnitude of the failure event. A small relatively cheap component is much less inconvenient and often less threat to peoples safety. The true total would very likely be well over 1000 each will a bill of £5000 each.
A level sensor fix would require a full implementation to be designed and provided by Ford. Adding a level sensor is not trivial and would need wiring loom and ECU mods, just like the fix for the safety recall of the 1.6 litre from Ford published Jan 2018.
Megaflow said:
660 recorded failures, 90k cars registered.
Mean Dealer Repair frequency of 0.007333 if my maths are correct. Within Fords expected tolerance I’d imagine, they’d probably be happier if they hadn’t used most of it on one fault, but such is life.
About 1% failure rate, now publicity seems to upping the 660.Mean Dealer Repair frequency of 0.007333 if my maths are correct. Within Fords expected tolerance I’d imagine, they’d probably be happier if they hadn’t used most of it on one fault, but such is life.
Is a 1% failure rate within tolerance, given it could lead to a very expensive warranty claim? Seems high, but I've no idea.
rustfalia said:
Load of fuss over nothing.
Effected a few early cars which is to be expected in the automotive industry when cars are rushed to market.
A flick over the registration plate list, of the now 720 cars, show plenty of 2012 through to 2014 cars. Even 15 2015 cars appear in the list which is a total to be expected by the nature of time where there seems to be a common failure point between 3 and 4 yrs.Effected a few early cars which is to be expected in the automotive industry when cars are rushed to market.
Also, there are plenty of people on 3rd engines.
Would this be considered as a few early cars?
Ecoboost victim said:
rustfalia said:
Load of fuss over nothing.
Effected a few early cars which is to be expected in the automotive industry when cars are rushed to market.
A flick over the registration plate list, of the now 720 cars, show plenty of 2012 through to 2014 cars. Even 15 2015 cars appear in the list which is a total to be expected by the nature of time where there seems to be a common failure point between 3 and 4 yrs.Effected a few early cars which is to be expected in the automotive industry when cars are rushed to market.
Also, there are plenty of people on 3rd engines.
Would this be considered as a few early cars?
There are many elements to this topic, and I've not mentioned everything so far, knowing that there would be many questions and opinions from people.
The next relevant fact is that there are many instances of the degas hose recall new design hose not preventing the engine failure.
A separate point is there are to many cases of Ford dealerships selling cars with outstanding degas hose recall work. It has then been left to the car owners to pick up the pieces and fight their case without a courtesy car. It might be within the law for recalls not deamed to be saftey recalls, but certainly not within the spirt of the law when the result is such an expensive and arguably dangerous effect.
It is too late but Ford should have included very close intensive coolant system checks and yearly degas hose changes as part of the service schedule as a proportionate response to the situation.
The next relevant fact is that there are many instances of the degas hose recall new design hose not preventing the engine failure.
A separate point is there are to many cases of Ford dealerships selling cars with outstanding degas hose recall work. It has then been left to the car owners to pick up the pieces and fight their case without a courtesy car. It might be within the law for recalls not deamed to be saftey recalls, but certainly not within the spirt of the law when the result is such an expensive and arguably dangerous effect.
It is too late but Ford should have included very close intensive coolant system checks and yearly degas hose changes as part of the service schedule as a proportionate response to the situation.
If this is you, https://www.fieldfisher.com/media/2018/06/ford-eco... - Ford have covered your costs 100%. What are you hoping to gain from more action?
I'm not Louise but one of the many active people from the group and also one of the many to suffer from this fiasco.
This action is to recover all losses, including premature car trade in and alternative travel costs for the months without a car due to no courtesy car. For me that included my wife who had to often suffer carrying a 2mth old around in a sling while pushing a 2 yr old in a push chair in the depths of winter.
The action will hopefully put a stop to the madness merry go round of these lemons where second hand traders, including Fords network, make a lot of money from this mess.
Also the action will hopefully make big business feel some pain and hopefully make future exploitation of customers less likely to happen again.
This action is to recover all losses, including premature car trade in and alternative travel costs for the months without a car due to no courtesy car. For me that included my wife who had to often suffer carrying a 2mth old around in a sling while pushing a 2 yr old in a push chair in the depths of winter.
The action will hopefully put a stop to the madness merry go round of these lemons where second hand traders, including Fords network, make a lot of money from this mess.
Also the action will hopefully make big business feel some pain and hopefully make future exploitation of customers less likely to happen again.
Sheepshanks said:
Have there been any examples of successful individual court cases? The SoGA case would seem to be clear cut.
By SoGA you mean Sale of Goods Act? Irrelevant, that legislation was superseded by the Consumer Rights Act. Whether there's an individual case or not will depend on how long the car has been owned, & how it's been serviced & used, & whether offers were made to repair or replace.MarkwG said:
By SoGA you mean Sale of Goods Act? Irrelevant, that legislation was superseded by the Consumer Rights Act.
.
It's not irrelevant, it depends when the car was bought. CRA is unlikely to apply to many cases yet, unless the affected car was bought used..
MarkwG said:
Whether there's an individual case or not will depend on how long the car has been owned, & how it's been serviced & used, & whether offers were made to repair or replace.
Did you post that as an example of irrelevance to the original question?Sheepshanks said:
MarkwG said:
By SoGA you mean Sale of Goods Act? Irrelevant, that legislation was superseded by the Consumer Rights Act.
It's not irrelevant, it depends when the car was bought. CRA is unlikely to apply to many cases yet, unless the affected car was bought used.MarkwG said:
Whether there's an individual case or not will depend on how long the car has been owned, & how it's been serviced & used, & whether offers were made to repair or replace.
Did you post that as an example of irrelevance to the original question?Point 2) No: Consumer Rights allows for a reduction based on use after the first 30 days, although as above, that's against the retailer, not the manufacturer.
Even if the complainants manage to convince the courts these Acts apply, both make it clear that beyond 6 months the burden of proof is on the buyer to prove the faults existed from sale, & that the seller refused to repair or replace. The cases I've seen indicate Ford (or their nominated agent) did repair or replace, either wholly or by in part with a wear & tear contribution, albeit not necessarily with good grace or good customer service. Hence my question regarding what they expect to gain beyond what they already have.
MarkwG said:
Point 1) It still won't apply to action against Ford, which this post refers to, as Sale of Goods relates/related to the retailer, not the manufacturer.
Point 2) No: Consumer Rights allows for a reduction based on use after the first 30 days, although as above, that's against the retailer, not the manufacturer.
Even if the complainants manage to convince the courts these Acts apply, both make it clear that beyond 6 months the burden of proof is on the buyer to prove the faults existed from sale, & that the seller refused to repair or replace. The cases I've seen indicate Ford (or their nominated agent) did repair or replace, either wholly or by in part with a wear & tear contribution, albeit not necessarily with good grace or good customer service. Hence my question regarding what they expect to gain beyond what they already have.
I know these are public forums, but why are you pontificating about what might happen?Point 2) No: Consumer Rights allows for a reduction based on use after the first 30 days, although as above, that's against the retailer, not the manufacturer.
Even if the complainants manage to convince the courts these Acts apply, both make it clear that beyond 6 months the burden of proof is on the buyer to prove the faults existed from sale, & that the seller refused to repair or replace. The cases I've seen indicate Ford (or their nominated agent) did repair or replace, either wholly or by in part with a wear & tear contribution, albeit not necessarily with good grace or good customer service. Hence my question regarding what they expect to gain beyond what they already have.
My question was pretty simple:
Sheepshanks said:
Have there been any examples of successful individual court cases?
GordonForque said:
Is it only 1.0 ecoboost, or all ecoboost? My wife has a 1.6.
1.6 Turbo EcoBoost tooWe had the factory recall completed in March-ish, which didn’t solve the issue. They fit a new loom, expansion tank, coolant level sensor*, and updated software for the dashboard display.
We discovered another EcoBoost** ‘feature’ - leaking heater matrix - fixed under warranty, thankfully, but being a dash out job would have cost 1k +
- after the recall fix, the coolant had dropped >1” below the MIN text on the expansion tank - no alert or beeping on the dashboard, so unsure how low the level needs to go before it alerts/alarms
- might not just be EcoBoost affected by matrix leaks
There hasnt been any rude comments so far just opinions.
I'm one of many who have lost approx £2000 due to early trade in, plus £100's for alternative transport while it took mths for the engine to be replaced.
Despite pushing my family to breaking point without the car and stress from uncertainty of when it would be fixed.
This loss of money means my children will need to suffer due to my wife needing to go back to work earlier.
This is not a pathetic money grab for me or 100's more like me. It is to redress the damage Ford have done to families across the UK.
I'm one of many who have lost approx £2000 due to early trade in, plus £100's for alternative transport while it took mths for the engine to be replaced.
Despite pushing my family to breaking point without the car and stress from uncertainty of when it would be fixed.
This loss of money means my children will need to suffer due to my wife needing to go back to work earlier.
This is not a pathetic money grab for me or 100's more like me. It is to redress the damage Ford have done to families across the UK.
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