How threatened is JLR?...sounds worrying
Discussion
NMNeil said:
Evanivitch said:
Ot sure how you took a software and driver assistance announcement as "all cars will be electric"?
Because the parent company, TATA, said so.https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/tat...
It’s been stated quite clearly in the reimagine strategy what will happen. Current cars will be phased out as their life cycles end.
craigjm said:
NMNeil said:
Evanivitch said:
Ot sure how you took a software and driver assistance announcement as "all cars will be electric"?
Because the parent company, TATA, said so.https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/tat...
It’s been stated quite clearly in the reimagine strategy what will happen. Current cars will be phased out as their life cycles end.
"Over the next five years, Land Rover will welcome six all-electric variants, with the first arriving in 2024. In this time, Jaguar will have undergone a complete renaissance, emerging as a pure electric luxury brand, from 2025."
"Brand positioning is becoming increasingly challenging in a dynamic automotive market with more intense competition from existing OEM’s and new disruptive entrants. Under the Reimagine strategy the business will target growth in our most profitable segments with Jaguar becoming an all-electric brand from 2025 and Land Rover launching BEV options on six of its models by 2026."
THIERRY BOLLORÉ
CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
Jaguar Land Rover Automotive plc
28 May 2021
I know someone who works for JLR. I won’t say as what to avoid identifying. There are a number of problems behind the scenes to name but a few: lack of staff, difficultly recruiting, expensive agency staff, people cutting corners, inexperienced team members, I could go on.. and that’s just one important department. I totally agree with the British Leyland comment.
Island Hermit said:
I know someone who works for JLR. I won’t say as what to avoid identifying. There are a number of problems behind the scenes to name but a few: lack of staff, difficultly recruiting, expensive agency staff, people cutting corners, inexperienced team members, I could go on.. and that’s just one important department. I totally agree with the British Leyland comment.
Exactly what you would hear from most workers in most organisations. The grass is always greener when you work somewhere. With the new Range Rover and Range Rover sport they will be in a better position once the chip shortage starts to ease. Island Hermit said:
I know someone who works for JLR. I won’t say as what to avoid identifying. There are a number of problems behind the scenes to name but a few: lack of staff, difficultly recruiting, expensive agency staff, people cutting corners, inexperienced team members, I could go on.. and that’s just one important department. I totally agree with the British Leyland comment.
Issue across all of engineering right now. There's been a shortage of UK Engineering graduates and skilled workers for over a decade, and now it's really starting to hit the industry with "recent events".I don’t think TATA are having a great time of it either at the moment. They’ve been trying to sell some of their big steel mills for years. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if their shopping for a buyer for JLR too.
To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
KarlMac said:
I don’t think TATA are having a great time of it either at the moment. They’ve been trying to sell some of their big steel mills for years. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if their shopping for a buyer for JLR too.
To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
It’s pretty clear what the reimagine strategy is about. Separate Jaguar and Land Rover and sell Jaguar. They only wanted Land Rover in 2007 but Jaguar came along for the ride because they were too entwined. The reimagine strategy gives Jaguar its own platform, a range of three cars not related to Land Rover at all, it’s own factory and it’s own administration. No clearer message needed that it will be packaged for sale in 2028 when the new models are all online and the I-pace goes out of production to break the final link. Don’t be surprised if the buyer is not a car company either To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
KarlMac said:
I don’t think TATA are having a great time of it either at the moment. They’ve been trying to sell some of their big steel mills for years. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if their shopping for a buyer for JLR too.
To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
They've been trying to offload the Dutch business for over a year now. That would massively benefit the UK business as it's believed UK Gov are keen to invest heavily in UK steel production, but won't do so if the money could be used to support non-UK interests.To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
Jaguar needs a really good and considerate owner in for the long game to be successful. I worked for Jaguar in the 80s under John Egan. I looked after a number of Home Counties main dealerships and when the Xj40 was launched we did very well with getting owners over from BMW and Mercedes. People would say “I always wanted to buy British “ but after the honeymoon period many went back to German brands. The build quality and reliability together with the dealership experience couldn’t live with the German brands.
Jaguar is a bit like Alfa. People want to see them doing well and occasionally there is a model to tempt buyers but rarely for the long term.
Jaguar going up market will be a struggle initially, maybe altogether. To do so firstly the company head honcho must have that background from Bentley, Aston or Rolls. That’s a very small band of men capable of recognising luxury in the product and getting the engineers to design, develop and build that quality luxury product.
Imagine a Citroen dealership having the franchise taken away and then being appointed as an Audi dealership but having to make do with its existing staff? Imagine telling the existing Citroen customers they are now going to have to pay Audi type rates ? Imagine local Audi customers coming to this ex Citroen dealership for the first time? That’s the battle Jaguar will have going up market.
Jaguar is a bit like Alfa. People want to see them doing well and occasionally there is a model to tempt buyers but rarely for the long term.
Jaguar going up market will be a struggle initially, maybe altogether. To do so firstly the company head honcho must have that background from Bentley, Aston or Rolls. That’s a very small band of men capable of recognising luxury in the product and getting the engineers to design, develop and build that quality luxury product.
Imagine a Citroen dealership having the franchise taken away and then being appointed as an Audi dealership but having to make do with its existing staff? Imagine telling the existing Citroen customers they are now going to have to pay Audi type rates ? Imagine local Audi customers coming to this ex Citroen dealership for the first time? That’s the battle Jaguar will have going up market.
Edited by Tazar on Wednesday 11th May 14:49
If Jaguar wants to succeed as an upmarket brand it would do well to leave the archaic franchised dealer model behind. It should follow the model of Genesis and do direct sales with retail units in major shopping centres etc for people to see the cars and deliver to your house for test drives. They can do servicing that way too. The days of glass box dealers in shiny suits needs to go in the bin.
Evanivitch said:
KarlMac said:
I don’t think TATA are having a great time of it either at the moment. They’ve been trying to sell some of their big steel mills for years. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if their shopping for a buyer for JLR too.
To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
They've been trying to offload the Dutch business for over a year now. That would massively benefit the UK business as it's believed UK Gov are keen to invest heavily in UK steel production, but won't do so if the money could be used to support non-UK interests.To be honest I’d have thought converting big SUVs to full electric would be an easier job than redesigning a range of superminis
There are some really interesting proposals going through for the Port Talbot site but it’ll be a while before any major investment announcements are made, my personal opinion is again UKG is worried about money moving offshore rather than going into Port Talbot as intended.
Apologies for de-railing the thread a little, but I think and insight into the parent companies behaviour gives you some idea of what lies ahead for JLR.
Island Hermit said:
I know someone who works for JLR. I won’t say as what to avoid identifying. There are a number of problems behind the scenes to name but a few: lack of staff, difficultly recruiting, expensive agency staff, people cutting corners, inexperienced team members, I could go on.. and that’s just one important department. I totally agree with the British Leyland comment.
It's a toxic work environment with too many clueless senior managers who are just there for the perks and the pension. Silo mentally rules and hierarchical structures lead to infighting to make sure that everyone knows what grades managers are from what car they are entitled to.
I got out for my sanity.
KarlMac said:
There are some really interesting proposals going through for the Port Talbot site but it’ll be a while before any major investment announcements are made, my personal opinion is again UKG is worried about money moving offshore rather than going into Port Talbot as intended.
Apologies for de-railing the thread a little, but I think and insight into the parent companies behaviour gives you some idea of what lies ahead for JLR.
Rolls Royce SMR, big hydrogen electrolyzer and electric arc furnace. Yes, please Apologies for de-railing the thread a little, but I think and insight into the parent companies behaviour gives you some idea of what lies ahead for JLR.
Evanivitch said:
Island Hermit said:
I know someone who works for JLR. I won’t say as what to avoid identifying. There are a number of problems behind the scenes to name but a few: lack of staff, difficultly recruiting, expensive agency staff, people cutting corners, inexperienced team members, I could go on.. and that’s just one important department. I totally agree with the British Leyland comment.
Issue across all of engineering right now. There's been a shortage of UK Engineering graduates and skilled workers for over a decade, and now it's really starting to hit the industry with "recent events".The Director of Research from Rolls Royce PLC said something similar at another evening lecture I attended.
I noticed that the XE and XF have been unavailable for order for some time now, due to supply chain issues. Given the length of time that they have been unavailable, I would not be surprised if they are just dropped. They have to drop them soon anyway because of the BEV stuff, and surely most potential buyers have now gone off and ordered something else. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to keep the production line open.
AmitG said:
I noticed that the XE and XF have been unavailable for order for some time now, due to supply chain issues. Given the length of time that they have been unavailable, I would not be surprised if they are just dropped. They have to drop them soon anyway because of the BEV stuff, and surely most potential buyers have now gone off and ordered something else. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to keep the production line open.
The XE has already been dropped in the US and other markets and the XF will probably follow next year. They are both built at Castle Bromwich which is being wound down anywaycraigjm said:
AmitG said:
I noticed that the XE and XF have been unavailable for order for some time now, due to supply chain issues. Given the length of time that they have been unavailable, I would not be surprised if they are just dropped. They have to drop them soon anyway because of the BEV stuff, and surely most potential buyers have now gone off and ordered something else. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to keep the production line open.
The XE has already been dropped in the US and other markets and the XF will probably follow next year. They are both built at Castle Bromwich which is being wound down anywayI had hoped they would go out with a bang...seems it might be more of a whimper
Did you see about the Land Rover customer who has appeared on BBC news and various websites who has parked several vehicles outside Cardiff and Swansea JLR dealerships all sign written saying “do not but here as they don’t honour warranties”.
Court injunctions saying he has to remove by 14May but he’s saying he’ll park outside the other 70 odd dealerships and head office.
JLR say they are having ongoing conversations but it doesn’t help their image.
Court injunctions saying he has to remove by 14May but he’s saying he’ll park outside the other 70 odd dealerships and head office.
JLR say they are having ongoing conversations but it doesn’t help their image.
Tazar said:
Did you see about the Land Rover customer who has appeared on BBC news and various websites who has parked several vehicles outside Cardiff and Swansea JLR dealerships all sign written saying “do not but here as they don’t honour warranties”.
Court injunctions saying he has to remove by 14May but he’s saying he’ll park outside the other 70 odd dealerships and head office.
JLR say they are having ongoing conversations but it doesn’t help their image.
So you can glue yourself to a train, or to a road and cause untold misery for thousands, but a corporation can have you moved from what is a peaceful protest on what is presumably a public road? Sounds about right for this arse backwards countryCourt injunctions saying he has to remove by 14May but he’s saying he’ll park outside the other 70 odd dealerships and head office.
JLR say they are having ongoing conversations but it doesn’t help their image.
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