Warning about used Discovery Sport and Evoque Diesels - LRM

[anonymous-user]

The Spruce Goose said:

At one point in China 70 % of all JLR cars were recalled, highest in history.


It amazes me how JLR sell premium products that seemly made with corners cut. Quality has never been high on there agenda.

My theory is as they are so popular, they have to churn them out, but they don't have the money (R&D compared to the Germans) and they're increasingly being packed with more and more tech so they leave half arsed. Pretty low moral working there too, relatively speaking - always some doom and gloom about the factory and jobs.

Interesting to see the long term reliability of the Slovakian built Defenders though...

[Grimsby]

The Spruce Goose said:

At one point in China 70 % of all JLR cars were recalled, highest in history.
It amazes me how JLR sell premium products that seemly made with corners cut. Quality has never been high on there agenda.

Built around the iconic Range Rover branding, Land Rover sells cars which are:

- highly desirable to own
- more expensive than equivalent models
- expensive to service
- more likely to go wrong
- more expensive to fix when they do.

In short, it looks like the perfect business model. Except that Tata is actually running a Ponzi scheme built on £6.5 billion of debt and it can't turn the taps off fast enough to prevent it running out of cash (It's down to £2.7 billion). Introducing the FY21 Q1 financial results Adrian Mardell (CFO, Jaguar Land Rover) said:

Other key highlights here, investment much lower, and you won’t be surprised given what we’ve all been through, we’ve done what companies do. We battened down our investments and we battened down our spend, there’s been a dramatic impact on these results. Because our cash out flow was £1.5 billion, higher than last years £719 million outflow, April and May cash out flow was £1.5 billion also which tells you our June cash was breakeven. And the cash balance, the absolute cash balance on hand was very close to the balance we had at the end of quarter one last year at £2.7 billion. We’ll get into the Charge benefits and the reason for the cash losses later.

Q1 FY21 RESULTS CALL TRANSCRIPT

The irony is that cash-rich Geely might end up owning both Volvo and Land Rover!

[robm3]

Argleton said:

The Spruce Goose said:

At one point in China 70 % of all JLR cars were recalled, highest in history.


It amazes me how JLR sell premium products that seemly made with corners cut. Quality has never been high on there agenda.

My theory is as they are so popular, they have to churn them out, but they don't have the money (R&D compared to the Germans) and they're increasingly being packed with more and more tech so they leave half arsed. Pretty low moral working there too, relatively speaking - always some doom and gloom about the factory and jobs.

Interesting to see the long term reliability of the Slovakian built Defenders though...

Ah not quite right. The design and assembly is rarely the problem (although the OP's reference to mismatch of aluminium bolts on steel is a design issue), mainly it's poor components failing, with the finger to be pointed at JLR's Procurement team.

As an example I had three Spring Coupling's replaced (the connection between electronics and the steering wheel airbag) under warranty on a Disco 4. On the third go the tech showed me they were now made in India and since switching from Taiwan sourced parts, they'd had issues. If you want a more relevant theory, I'd suggest TATA Group has insisted a different supply base be used, at a cost saving but also a quality issue.
That said, I've currently got a 2018 RRS with 40,0000 miles on it and not one issue so far. So who knows....

[anonymous-user]

robm3 said:

Argleton said:

The Spruce Goose said:

At one point in China 70 % of all JLR cars were recalled, highest in history.


It amazes me how JLR sell premium products that seemly made with corners cut. Quality has never been high on there agenda.

My theory is as they are so popular, they have to churn them out, but they don't have the money (R&D compared to the Germans) and they're increasingly being packed with more and more tech so they leave half arsed. Pretty low moral working there too, relatively speaking - always some doom and gloom about the factory and jobs.

Interesting to see the long term reliability of the Slovakian built Defenders though...

Ah not quite right. The design and assembly is rarely the problem (although the OP's reference to mismatch of aluminium bolts on steel is a design issue), mainly it's poor components failing, with the finger to be pointed at JLR's Procurement team.

As an example I had three Spring Coupling's replaced (the connection between electronics and the steering wheel airbag) under warranty on a Disco 4. On the third go the tech showed me they were now made in India and since switching from Taiwan sourced parts, they'd had issues. If you want a more relevant theory, I'd suggest TATA Group has insisted a different supply base be used, at a cost saving but also a quality issue.
That said, I've currently got a 2018 RRS with 40,0000 miles on it and not one issue so far. So who knows....

Why do they continue to use them then? The components and the companies? It can't surely be a race to the bottom in terms of price?

I can't think what you've said is right.

[jl34]

JLR use pretty much the same suppliers that are used by the Germans, which is why all the German Marques and JLR are pretty much at the bottom of the JD Power reliability surveys. When I worked there they had terrible problems particularly from ZF.

Manufacturers are pretty much just packaging other companies products. Under a JLR you will find Bosch , siemens , Draxlemaier , schaeffler , continental, exactly the same suppliers you will find in a BMW or Audi. In my role I used to rip many cars from the competitors apart and there is really little difference in many of the electronics and systems parts , which are frequently the ones that go wrong. JLR really only Design and make the Body in white components and the Major engine components excluding all the emission's/ fuel injection stuff you guys are moaning about., ( as do most OEMS's)

The Asian Marques tend to use better suppliers like Denso Calsonic etc and their reliability ensures the OEM has a better reliability rating.