Starter bloody starter

[The Nige]

Back in 2015 replaced the starter motor with new 2.5kw unit due to an intermittent fault with the previous motor not engaging. September last year started getting the same intermittent fault of starter spinning but not engaging, since September the car has been SORN but only last couple of weeks had time to sort it.
Had starter motor tested at local factors last month with result being starter ok.
So fitted new Battery CCA 570 tested yesterday 560 CCA, new live cable from battery to starter fitted, new relay fitted and replaced solenoid with WOSP LMRS010, put most of the car back together yesterday, check starting and all worked well. This morning replaced faulty passenger door solenoid put air box and bits back ready for a jolly and hey ho starter spinning and not engaging.
Any suggestion will be gratefully received. Doing my head in.

[Jhonno]

Does it have a spacer under the starter? Iirc some had a thin spacer between the box and the starter..

[Penelope Stopit]

The motor part of the starter motor can only spin if the solenoid contacts have met-up (closed)
If the solenoid contacts have closed and the motor is turning at full speed and definitely not engaging, this means that the solenoid lever mechanism that engages the starter pinion is broken
The fact that your starter sometimes works proves that the lever isn't broken
Bearing in mind that the solenoid when operated by the key/button pulls a plunger in through its core and that plunger is what engages the pinion with the flywheel before it pushes the solenoid contacts together to power the motor, I think that pinions clutch could be slipping

When a pinions clutch is slipping it will engage with the flywheel and allow the motor to turn at full speed without turning the flywheel
Does your motor sound like it is turning very fast?

Your comment that your pinion is spinning but not engaging could be wrong, your pinion could be engaging but not spinning because of clutch slip

There is also a possibility of a slipping ring gear on the flywheel but this is an unknown to me as I don't know the spec of your flywheel

[CerbWill]

Agreed, I'd change the starter clutch.

http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/car-parts/electric...

[The Nige]

Jhonno, the original had no spacer so just assumed replacement would be the same.
Penelope Stopit, yes the motor does sound like it is turning very fast.
CerbWill, just ordered RD600K TVR AJP8 Starter Clutch.
Gentlemen you have no idea how much this had been doing my head in, truly appreciated.

Thank you guys

Nigel

[The Nige]

Good morning gentlemen, while the starter is out on the bench can anybody think of anything that is worth checking, not particularly interested in going through this too often.



Thanks Nigel

[Juddder]

Sounds like you've got it covered and it is a pig of a job - even more fun on a 4.2 when you have to remove the fuel rail and really skim all your knuckles trying to get it out!

I'd have a quick check through the gearbox replacement thread here - just to check

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[The Nige]

Can this be beaten,
Yesterday @ 13:22 can’t figure out what the problem is with the starter motors so paste the problem up here. An hour later and three replies, so while reading the replies I phone Racetech and place the order, this morning I take it all apart again, starter on the bench ready for new starter motor clutch unit. This afternoon parcel arrives with said clutch unit and fuse holder for starter/alternator, swap everything over and hey presto it lives. I have been driving about for the last hour stopping and starting for no reason.
Talk about talking to the right people at the right time at the right place.

Delighted.

[Penelope Stopit]

The Nige said:

Can this be beaten,
Yesterday @ 13:22 can’t figure out what the problem is with the starter motors so paste the problem up here. An hour later and three replies, so while reading the replies I phone Racetech and place the order, this morning I take it all apart again, starter on the bench ready for new starter motor clutch unit. This afternoon parcel arrives with said clutch unit and fuse holder for starter/alternator, swap everything over and hey presto it lives. I have been driving about for the last hour stopping and starting for no reason.
Talk about talking to the right people at the right time at the right place.

Delighted.

I'm delighted that your delighted

[Byker28i]

Juddder said:

Sounds like you've got it covered and it is a pig of a job - even more fun on a 4.2 when you have to remove the fuel rail and really skim all your knuckles trying to get it out!

Nah it's easy. When you lift the body for the chassis replacement/repair, you change the starter then. Lots of access to it

[TobyLerone]

Byker28i said:

Juddder said:

Sounds like you've got it covered and it is a pig of a job - even more fun on a 4.2 when you have to remove the fuel rail and really skim all your knuckles trying to get it out!

Nah it's easy. When you lift the body for the chassis replacement/repair, you change the starter then. Lots of access to it

[Juddder]

Byker28i said:

Nah it's easy. When you lift the body for the chassis replacement/repair, you change the starter then. Lots of access to it

Nah, that looks way too easy - this is how you should really do it

[The Nige]

Byker28i, what do you have fashioned over the top of the starter, I’m assuming it’s to deflect the heat from the near side manifold. I’m not totally convinced my starter repairs are going to last for a great period of time. I went for a short jolly today only sixty miles or so, got back home and parked on the drive, 15 minutes later went to move it and first press ended with the dreaded starter screech, now I’m wondering does the starter have an overheating problem.
Has anyone else fitted some sort of heat protection to the starter/solenoid and how are they secured.
Juddder, I managed to get the starter out by removing the fuel rail, 100amp fuse and the nearest coil pack, what a mare, I couldn’t bring myself to remove the inlet manifold as well.
Cheers
Nigel

[CerbWill]

That heatshield is standard. If yours is missing try the usual suspects for new and Douglas Valley Breakers for 2nd hand.

[Byker28i]

Yeah it's the standard fit heatshield

[ukkid35]

While the starter motor is off I'm thinking about what I need to do to make it more reliable

Some of the time the starter fails to engage properly and I just get the sound of gears grinding

Is this more likely to be the solenoid or the clutch?

Since they are over £50 each I don't want to replace both unless it's absolutely essential

Is it possible I could get away with just giving it a proper clean?

[Penelope Stopit]

The starter shouldn't be able to turn until its pinion is engaged with the flywheel

Chances are its a gear reduction starter, if there are gears grinding and the engine isn't turning over it will be worth replacing all the gears and drive end bushes

If the drive end bushes are badly worn there will be play in the shaft which will cause gear wear

Never know though, perhaps the gears are ok and only the bushes need replacing

One other thing to bear in mind is that the drives (Pinion) clutch could be dodgy and sometimes making a nasty noise when slipping

[CerbWill]

Have you got a shim fitted? A 1mm shim between the starter and bellhousing can sort the occasional graunching noise.

[ukkid35]

CerbWill said:

Have you got a shim fitted? A 1mm shim between the starter and bellhousing can sort the occasional graunching noise.

Yes, shim present

Will need to disassemble the starter eventually, will post pictures of any wear I find

[Penelope Stopit]

Thank you in advance for the images