Another clutch disaster!

[m4tti]

DCerebrate said:

Yep, TVR parts, Racetech and Powers are all out of stock. Though Powers might have a small number, just for work on cars they have in or are awaiting engine rebuilds.

Smells like they're waiting for components from the Far East.

I have an AP clutch pack in the garage if you want to have it reclined by someone like CG Motorsport.

Not taking the pish but it looks somewhat more normal than yours and that one has been sat there a few years.

Edited by m4tti on Thursday 28th September 22:20

[DCerebrate]

matti, very kind offer. Think I might go for Helix this time, as I have spent too much time posting parts from various ageing cars, here, there and everywhere. Feel like I am sticking cars together with Frankenstein body parts at times! But in a good way.

[FarmyardPants]

CerbWill said:

FarmyardPants said:

Another theory is that the reason the clutch looks so rusty is the same reason the thrust bearing failed. Gaping hole in bell housing lets in water..

Which hole would this be?

As I understand it DCerebrate has an outboard slave fitted:

DCerebrate said:

Hi Matti

don't have any pictures of the remote slave just now. I think there is quite a hole in the bellhousing now, but not sure what to do about it. And I have gone through a lot of standing water on occasion - including this latest journey to Bradford and back.

[CerbWill]

He's got a Tilton 6000 series fitted which mounts on the gearbox input shaft bearing retainer. To do so you need to cut a hole in the bell housing to route hydraulic hoses to the slave but that can be sealed up with a rubber grommet, see aide's installation. The bell housing on V8s isn't completely sealed with a standard slave either as there's a gap between the housing and engine block.

[DCerebrate]

It seems that during some of the past work, and I am being deliberately non-specific, the remote slave cylinder might have been screwed back in too far, in fact to the maximum possible extent, without measuring the position. Could this have caused the problem in the end by the thrust bearing somehow protruding too far? This was how it was found, at a slight angle, with metal particles on the surface. The seal at the bottom of the slave cylinder was distorted in two places. There was no sign of heat damage / discolouration as would have been expected with a seized bearing. The local garage thinks that somehow too much pressure was applied to the fingers, one or more snapped, and then they all went. If the above is correct, then it is an expensive mistake on someone’s part. Most likely at my expense, the way these things go.............

[CerbWill]

The installation instructions from Tilton are quite specific about the clearance between the fingers and release bearing so if it's not right I suspect you'll have issues.

[DCerebrate]

Thanks cerbwill for the previous link to instructions. I am told that the first time it was installed, instructions were followed to the letter. 2nd time, elsewhere, may have been under time pressure, don’t know yet whether instructions were accessed. Anyway, result was spectacular and expensive. Now having second thoughts about helix having read the forums. Wonder how clivef got on with his clutch from clutch-specialists in Leeds? Or I could just wait for an AP.

[CerbWill]

As far as I can remember both AP and Helix have had their issues over the years. I went with Helix as they're rebuildable and will sell you new plates, fingers etc.

[Byker28i]

Byker28i said:

Deffinately looks like somethings been bouncing around.
I've got a Helix, had no issues with it, found it noticeably lighter than my original clutch.

Commentators curse. Foot straight to the floor yesterday, no fluid in the master. Topped up again, pumped and got pressure back, but a suspicious puddle under the gearbox now...
Oh well, engines coming out in two weeks...

[m4tti]

I think that Tilton slave looks like a decent quality component and they must have done tons of them on mustangs.

Does it compare well price wise with the Raceproved concentric slave?

[CerbWill]

They're about 390 +VAT.

[m4tti]

That doesn't sound too bad. If that's set up correctly I'm presuming it won't have any of the inherent quality issues of the standard slave. I'm suprised more places don't fit them.

I guess it reduces repeat work.

[DCerebrate]

Yes, I think tilton products are quality work, but as in this instance they can self-destruct if not set up correctly or if clutch implodes. I am about to find out but wouldn’t be surprised if price has gone up considerably since the pound went down.

Edited to say - fellow sympathy to Byker. Might coincide with engine work but unless you are lucky and it is just the master cylinder, the costs can add up. The clutch seems to be the Cerbera’s achilles heel.

Edited by DCerebrate on Sunday 1st October 14:11

[Byker28i]

2 years and 5k miles since the clutch was completely replaced, not the master though.
A weird one, it was fine driving it around, had a misfire and the coils replaced, drive it back fine, put it in my garage without any issue.

Came to get it out yesterday, foot straight to the floor, no fluid in the master. Strange to go all on it's own without being touched.

[DCerebrate]

Might just be that the master cylinder was of a 'certain age' (analogous age alert, after 50 our health can go suddenly wrong for no apparent reason). If it is the master cylinder you might have to think of changing the slave again as elsewhere on the forum there is a warning that gubbins from a deteriorating master cylinder can then damage the slave.

[DCerebrate]

New clutch is finally in, thanks to competition supplies for the Tilton Slave, a very generous PHer who donated a used AP clutch (for refurb with Kevlar plates by CG motorsport), and to my local garage for putting it all back together. The feel is totally different - very light (no longer uber-manly?!) - and with a short-travel pedal stop to prevent the slave from over-stroking. In fact it is so different that I have had to conclude that the last set-up was in difficulties from the date of installation, so perhaps amazing that it lasted for 2 years. All was done for under £1k, and the largest part of that was the Tilton, due to it being a US built motorsport part and with the depreciation of the £. The take-home message is that anyone doing the Tilton conversion should ensure that the instructions for measurements and installation are followed to the letter. They are available on the Tilton website.
And old cerbie lasted for all of 5 miles before the wiper motor died! To be fair, it is almost two years since it has had to be trailered.............

[Byker28i]

Byker28i said:

2 years and 5k miles since the clutch was completely replaced, not the master though.
A weird one, it was fine driving it around, had a misfire and the coils replaced, drive it back fine, put it in my garage without any issue.

Came to get it out yesterday, foot straight to the floor, no fluid in the master. Strange to go all on it's own without being touched.

Update on this is that I topped up the fluid and it's been fine since, no further leaks, no further loss of pressure. Car's now in for engine out so it'll get checked then.
Weird.

And yes, my Helix clutch was very noticeably lighter to use than the original Ap

[Juddder]

Quick diagnostics help from the clutch experts...

Spent an hour in fairly busy city traffic yesterday and towards the end of the journey clutch bite point was getting close to right at the top of the pedal, and the clutch was starting to smell of burning clutch

Only non-normal activity had been a rather fast start at a a traffic lights on the way, but wondering if this is the signs of the clutch plates starting to wear out or just hot clutch fluid and expanding air indicating a need to replace all the clutch fluid?

A couple of kids nicely told me my car stinks while waiting at a crossing light

[Byker28i]

I'd bleed the clutch fluid as a starter.

[fatjon]

Getting close to the top is quite the opposite of what you get with hot fluid. You will need new plates.