Spare 4.2 engine?

Spare 4.2 engine?

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Discussion

Byker28i

Original Poster:

58,868 posts

216 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
What actually needs to be changed to put it back to a working engine ? If it's just a refresh as such just ask for that, sign a no-warranty disclaimer, and use it as you have been all these years with no issues.
If the engine builder wont do that, get your bits back and take it to someone like mat smith, or ian at track vroad, or that guy in blackpool who used to build engines for the factory (forget his name) or any of the other garages that have rebuilt engines.
Don't you use niel garner? can't they help you out ?
I fully understand the element of wanting to protect a businesses reputation and also the profit of selling new cranks, but I prefer to see a more real-world approach to these things (unless someone is loaded, in which case go for it with twin turbo LS !!)
Yeah all this - engine was taken out at Neils, is currently with someone else.
Need to discuss options

Plus with my history of Silverstone Performance and how they owed me lots of money, I'm surprised you mentioned him.



Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 16th January 11:24

Demondad

475 posts

214 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
I'm probably heading for a similar dilemma, one of my head gasket leaks, the head has been welded in the past I have noticed, so I am dreading the verdict when the engine is out. I'd like Andy @apm to do the work, all it hopefully needs is a refresh, I have no wish to change to LS. Always wondering when some manufacturer may remake AJP8 spares, heads, blocks etc, otherwise these cars may become museum pieces in future. Spares would be undoubtedly be v expensive!

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Blocks are available.. Heads are the only thing that aren't.

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Speak to Andy @APM

julian64

14,317 posts

253 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
year or so after I bought mine there was a fire damaged 4.5 engine and gearbox which I bought for £900. The fire damage was superficial to the point where I am currently using the coil packs from that engine.

I took it apart and cleaned it all and left it on several shelves in my garage to future proof the cerb. Took the block to andy for a 4.7 conversion. But as my current car is continuing on with no problem I never did anything else with it. Its all sitting waiting in my garage for the current engine to go pop!

If I sold it my current engine would definitely go pop frown

Byker28i

Original Poster:

58,868 posts

216 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Jhonno said:
Speak to Andy @APM
Websites down: http://www.apmtvrservicing.co.uk/

Have you an email address?

Chimp871

837 posts

116 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Byker28i said:
Chimp871 said:
I believe you can line bore the main journals for the larger diameter crank and then drop in a forged crank that tvr power sells.
You can indeed, but the cost of the total work to update an old engine to new spec is about the cost of a cheap Cerbera
I spoke to someone at tvr power and asked about line boring and he said about 300 plus their crank which I think was 1600. This is based on a diy build


Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Jhonno said:
Speak to Andy @APM
Websites down: http://www.apmtvrservicing.co.uk/

Have you an email address?
I've got a name on FB or a mobile number..

Byker28i

Original Poster:

58,868 posts

216 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
The quote I have is:

Top End: Both cylinder heads are seized onto the headstuds and requiring extra work to remove. There is significant wear to the valve tops where the valve shims sit. Old type chrome valves fitted with bronze guides which have excessive wear, no.6 inlet guide is loose in the head. The guides are early type which don't support the spring base correctly and have cap style oil seals. Camshafts and buckets are starting to wear. Both cylinder heads require reface due to corrosion.

Bottom End: Small main bearing cast crankshaft fitted, It is not recommended that this style of crankshaft is reused and they have a tendancy to snap. Nearly all crankshaft bearing are down to the copper. All cylinder liners are in fairly good condition and with 3 thou ovality. Although this is the top end of serviceability we could machine hone and gain a thou back. All the pistons are in serviceable condition and could be molycoated to extend their life.

Small shaft aux fitted which should be upgraded. Chain slipper is worn down to the rivets. Crankshaft locking bolt washer is missing. Conrods were fitted with the early cheap big end bolts.

The pump assembly requires rebuilding. Old type soft oil pressure relief valve spring is fitted.

Rectification required:

Full engine rebuild inc line bore to the block to fit later large main crankshaft. Rebuild cylinder heads with new guides and machine the seats to suit. Rebuild pump assembly.

Parts:
2x Chilled cast camshafts £500.00
16x Cam buckets. £272.00
16x valve stem seals £64.00
16x Tuftrided valves £280.00
16x Valve guides £300.00
16x Valve springs £320.00
2x Cylinder head gaskets £190.00
1x Timing chain £85.00
1x Chain slipper £90.00
8 Aux bearings £132.00
1x Crankshaft £1750.00
8x Piston ring sets £240.00
10x Main bearings £85.00
16x Big end bearings £70.00
O rings & seals £90.00
Aux shaft & pulley £TBD

Rebuild pump assembly £690.00
Molekote all 8 pistons £280.00
Big end bolt kit £80.00
Engineering £680.00
Re-face heads £150.00

Then there's lots of labour and even more VAT to add before other costs


Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Who has the engine atm?

phazed

21,844 posts

203 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Parts:
2x Chilled cast camshafts £500.00
16x Cam buckets. £272.00
16x valve stem seals £64.00
16x Tuftrided valves £280.00
16x Valve guides £300.00
16x Valve springs £320.00
2x Cylinder head gaskets £190.00
1x Timing chain £85.00
1x Chain slipper £90.00
8 Aux bearings £132.00
1x Crankshaft £1750.00
8x Piston ring sets £240.00
10x Main bearings £85.00
16x Big end bearings £70.00
O rings & seals £90.00
Aux shaft & pulley £TBD

Rebuild pump assembly £690.00
Molekote all 8 pistons £280.00
Big end bolt kit £80.00
Engineering £680.00
Re-face heads £150.00

Then there's lots of labour and even more VAT to add before other costs
This is the worry for anyone buying a used non RV8 TVR, (or any expensive performance car)

You really don't know what you have in there..........

Edited to say, very bad luck and I hope you find a decent solution.

FarmyardPants

4,099 posts

217 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Of that list, probably the only things you could skimp on are the crank (ie ignore the advice), cams (probably "ok"), valve springs (ditto) and the molekote.

Assuming the £680 engineering was for the block to accommodate the larger crank, and assuming +£2k labour and £500 for the aux shaft&pulley, I make that £5,318 plus VAT = £6,382 inc VAT.

Including all the bells and whistles, new crank and cams is £10,618 inc vat.

edit: ok I might be a bit light on the labour but the point is you could do it a bit cheaper.

Edited by FarmyardPants on Tuesday 16th January 15:22

julian64

14,317 posts

253 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
FarmyardPants said:
Of that list, probably the only things you could skimp on are the crank (ie ignore the advice), cams (probably "ok"), valve springs (ditto) and the molekote.

Assuming the £680 engineering was for the block to accommodate the larger crank, and assuming +£2k labour and £500 for the aux shaft&pulley, I make that £5,318 plus VAT = £6,382 inc VAT.

Including all the bells and whistles, new crank and cams is £10,618 inc vat.
Must be some second hand engines hanging around for less than that

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Must be some second hand engines hanging around for less than that
Whenever I see 2nd hand engines pop up they are about 3-5k..

I saw a fully built 4.7 for 10k..

FarmyardPants

4,099 posts

217 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
julian64 said:
FarmyardPants said:
Of that list, probably the only things you could skimp on are the crank (ie ignore the advice), cams (probably "ok"), valve springs (ditto) and the molekote.

Assuming the £680 engineering was for the block to accommodate the larger crank, and assuming +£2k labour and £500 for the aux shaft&pulley, I make that £5,318 plus VAT = £6,382 inc VAT.

Including all the bells and whistles, new crank and cams is £10,618 inc vat.
Must be some second hand engines hanging around for less than that
Maybe but this is completely refeshed with unstretched valves, new bearings, chain, pump etc etc.

Depends on one's crank risk appetite smile

Chuggaboom

1,152 posts

247 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Lots of stuff
Jeez....sympathies....that a real load of ste news....and after all the TLC you have given it !

As others have suggested, as we all know you love that car, I'd be laying it up till a 4.2, or better still a 4.5 engine, comes on the market. Even if it wasn't in great nick, I dare say a lot of mixing and matching could be done to cut down that bill.

I have a 4.2 that came out of No.29. It had new cams and buckets etc back in 2006 (done less than 1500 track day miles) and was pushing out 350 on the rollers with the race car exhaust/intakes.

But once I noticed in 2015 the oil pressure was dropping to around 30 I got it pulled and swapped to the 4.5 that I had bought in readiness for such an event.

I suspect (hope) its just shells and maybe a regrind or crank swap, then perhaps good to go again, but haven't got around to looking at it.

Edited by Chuggaboom on Tuesday 16th January 15:45

Byker28i

Original Poster:

58,868 posts

216 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
FarmyardPants said:
julian64 said:
FarmyardPants said:
Of that list, probably the only things you could skimp on are the crank (ie ignore the advice), cams (probably "ok"), valve springs (ditto) and the molekote.

Assuming the £680 engineering was for the block to accommodate the larger crank, and assuming +£2k labour and £500 for the aux shaft&pulley, I make that £5,318 plus VAT = £6,382 inc VAT.

Including all the bells and whistles, new crank and cams is £10,618 inc vat.
Must be some second hand engines hanging around for less than that
Maybe but this is completely refeshed with unstretched valves, new bearings, chain, pump etc etc.

Depends on one's crank risk appetite smile
Not worth the risk is it. Not if you're putting all that money into it, you'd do it properly.

Jhonno said:
Whenever I see 2nd hand engines pop up they are about 3-5k..
I saw a fully built 4.7 for 10k..
Trouble is most are of an unknown quantity, so you'd have to get it stripped and inspected for piece of mind, and then everyone I've found has come out of damaged cars.

So there may be a end in sight. A well know Indy has a complete rebuilt engine which has done 6K+ miles (or maybe a few more) who will let it go for £6k plus my engine. Could be a result.

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
Hmm...

Quite expensive still, but also kind of works out at a 6k rebuild (ie, your engine is effectively valueless), so if you look at it like that, it isn't so bad!

FarmyardPants

4,099 posts

217 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
If that's a drive in/out price that's not a bad deal. Nicely run in for you as well smile. Presumably a 4.2? What crank?

Byker28i

Original Poster:

58,868 posts

216 months

Tuesday 16th January 2018
quotequote all
FarmyardPants said:
If that's a drive in/out price that's not a bad deal. Nicely run in for you as well smile. Presumably a 4.2? What crank?
Nope, the engine was taken out and sent off, so it's still got to be put back in, ancillaries swapped over. My engine had work on the inlets, act exhaust manifolds, brand new starter, coils, everything new in the last year really bar the internals