Should I shouldn't I - TVR v M3
Discussion
Jhonno said:
TVRMs said:
The only disappointing TVR I’ve ever owned was a 4.5 LW Cerb.
The only TVR I’ve ever sold because I was sick of throwing money at it was a 4.5 LW Cerb.
The only TVR I ever owned that had that built in a shed quality about it was a 4.5 LW Cerb.
My advice is based on one car, I wouldn’t entertain buying another to try and find if the car I had was a rogue. Mine was a mint 16k one owner car with full proper dealer history, i don’t believe it was a one off duffer.
My advice would be to do the sensible sane thing and buy the M3.
Good job the rest of us haven't had that experience then! The only TVR I’ve ever sold because I was sick of throwing money at it was a 4.5 LW Cerb.
The only TVR I ever owned that had that built in a shed quality about it was a 4.5 LW Cerb.
My advice is based on one car, I wouldn’t entertain buying another to try and find if the car I had was a rogue. Mine was a mint 16k one owner car with full proper dealer history, i don’t believe it was a one off duffer.
My advice would be to do the sensible sane thing and buy the M3.
M3 over a Cerb as a play thing.. Not a chance, and I am a BMW man. My Cerb has had it's niggles, and now some more major work (self inflicted preventative), but it has been more reliable than my BMW daily..
I have a choice of BMWs as a daily drive and have no issues with any of them.
Maybe I've been lucky with the BMWs and unlucky with the Cerb?
Let me think...
TheRainMaker said:
skiworldbros said:
Let's face it...buying a TVR isn't for the sensible...????
That sums it up for me.The BMW will be better built, it will probably be more reliable, it will cost less to run, it will be the better all round car.
However, it's not a Cerbera
Other TVRs are better built, probably more reliable, will cost less to run and are better all round cars.
But they're still TVRs.
We've got three TVRs, owned a lot more than that, so I'm hardly sensible - but sensible enough not to own another Cerbera...
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 18th January 12:30
TVRMs said:
TheRainMaker said:
skiworldbros said:
Let's face it...buying a TVR isn't for the sensible...????
That sums it up for me.The BMW will be better built, it will probably be more reliable, it will cost less to run, it will be the better all round car.
However, it's not a Cerbera
Other TVRs are better built, probably more reliable, will cost less to run and are better all round cars.
But they're still TVRs.
We've got three TVRs, owned a lot more than that, so I'm hardly sensible - but sensible enough not to own another Cerbera...
Edited by TVRMs on Thursday 18th January 12:30
TVRMs said:
So here's a thought.
Other TVRs are better built, probably more reliable, will cost less to run and are better all round cars.
But they're still TVRs.
We've got three TVRs, owned a lot more than that, so I'm hardly sensible - but sensible enough not to own another Cerbera...
Do you work for the Owner's Club? Other TVRs are better built, probably more reliable, will cost less to run and are better all round cars.
But they're still TVRs.
We've got three TVRs, owned a lot more than that, so I'm hardly sensible - but sensible enough not to own another Cerbera...
Edited by TVRMs on Thursday 18th January 12:30
A Cerbera's perennial weak points I'd say are(/can be):
Water leaks
Clutch/Clutch Hydraulics
Electrics
Depending on the condition of the particular one you purchase the chassis, engine, gearbox, interior and paint might also need expensive attention.
I bought a 66k mile '96 Cerbera 3 and a half years ago, and it was cheap (<£12k). The front wings were scraped where the owner had caught them getting in/out of a small garage, the air con system came in a bag with the car, and the interior was a bit worn, driver's seat in particular. I also has no previous experience of car maintenance/repair past trivial stuff like oil changes and brake changes. In 17k miles I've required the services of a breakdown company twice. The first was entirely caused by my own stupidity, incorrect routing of oil pipes after reinstalling the engine following a clutch slave change/general Bay tidy-up caused a significant oil leak. The 2nd was alternator failure. In all I've been let down once by it's inherent 'TVRishness'. Below is a list of stuff I've done to it split in to the essential (ie to fix major problems/ keep it running), the 'nice to haves', and some that fall halfway between the two.
Essential
Starter motor refurb.
Door seals - upgraded to later type.
Clutch slave change x2 (including figuring out the Tilton Slave mod to ditch the TVR design) due to fluid leaks.
New clutch.
Replaced engine wiring loom. My '96 car had a huge connector going through the wing into the engine bay. Wiggling it caused all the sensor values to change so I made up a new loom that went straight through as per the later design.
Gearbox re-build due to whining noise and worn 2nd gear synchro.
Alternator voltage regulator change due to excessively high output voltage. Suspiciously I ended up being stranded with a dead alternator a few hundred miles after, I haven't proved it but I'd suggest the replacement VRM wasn't of great quality and died soon after installation.
Alternator change after the above.
A few lambda sensor changes.
Oil pressure switch change due to oil leaking from it.
Replaced exhaust heat-shield.
I'm now in the midst of a body-off rebuild due to a corroded chassis.
In Between
Reinstate Air Con. Cerberas were sold without a/c but they're so much nicer with it.
Respray. Scrapes down to bare fiberglass might have caused issues with water ingress. For other cars with superficial scratches this is a 'nice to have'.
Headlight relay mod to protect light control boxes.
Nice to have
Full interior re-trim. Could have got away with sorting the front seats & carpet but I ruined it by trying to use Furniture Clinic dye which didn't adhere that well to vinyl and looked tatty very quickly (although others have had good experiences) so ended up replacing the whole lot.
Installed extra fans to help cabin ventilation airflow.
Heater re-circ mod.
Other than that it's just servicing which I have also DIYed.
Usual advice, buy the latest built one you can afford thats got good paint, good interior, had the chassis sorted and you'll probably be OK with minor spannering. It'll be cheaper in the long run than buying a cheap one now and doing all the work yourself. Stick away £2-3k/yr just in case but I doubt you'll be using it.
If you think the above sounds like a lot of work, it is and it's more than I bargained for, but my inexperience meant I didn't know what I was getting in to. Having owned it it's brilliant and I've go no plans to sell it in the foreseeable
You certainly do not buy a Cerbera with your head, It is with your heart and soul.
I am on my second one, I have a good Audi as well but the Cerb is an event, It stirs the soul. If you have to think about it too long it probably isn't for you.
But in years to come you wont be standing at the bar talking about the M3.
And once you have had one I don't think you ever really walk away from them.
I am on my second one, I have a good Audi as well but the Cerb is an event, It stirs the soul. If you have to think about it too long it probably isn't for you.
But in years to come you wont be standing at the bar talking about the M3.
And once you have had one I don't think you ever really walk away from them.
robsco said:
Basically, find yourself one that's had an engine rebuild, repaint, re-trim, chassis restoration, recent gearbox rebuild, clutch and completely re-wired and you're almost certainly guaranteed to be possibly as safe as houses.
This one is about as close as I can find. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... I need to organise going to see it, it's a 400-mile round trip. I've had both...I loved the Cerbera and hated the E92 M3!
They can't really be compared, the M3 is just a 3 series with a fancy engine and when going steady it's as boring as any other 3 series. The chassis is excellent though, and it is good fun if you enjoy indulging in a little sideways action.
I had the M3 after the Cerb so the M3 just felt too heavy/too quiet/too refined for me. Maybe if I'd not had the Cerb previously I would have liked the M3 far more, I would run the two together if I had the funds though.
The Cerbera for me is in a completely different league for noise/sense of occasion/feel good factor, the M3 will be more reliable though.
They can't really be compared, the M3 is just a 3 series with a fancy engine and when going steady it's as boring as any other 3 series. The chassis is excellent though, and it is good fun if you enjoy indulging in a little sideways action.
I had the M3 after the Cerb so the M3 just felt too heavy/too quiet/too refined for me. Maybe if I'd not had the Cerb previously I would have liked the M3 far more, I would run the two together if I had the funds though.
The Cerbera for me is in a completely different league for noise/sense of occasion/feel good factor, the M3 will be more reliable though.
CerbWill said:
Do you work for the Owner's Club?
A Cerbera's perennial weak points I'd say are(/can be):
Water leaks
Clutch/Clutch Hydraulics
Electrics
Depending on the condition of the particular one you purchase the chassis, engine, gearbox, interior and paint might also need expensive attention.
I bought a 66k mile '96 Cerbera 3 and a half years ago, and it was cheap (<£12k). The front wings were scraped where the owner had caught them getting in/out of a small garage, the air con system came in a bag with the car, and the interior was a bit worn, driver's seat in particular. I also has no previous experience of car maintenance/repair past trivial stuff like oil changes and brake changes. In 17k miles I've required the services of a breakdown company twice. The first was entirely caused by my own stupidity, incorrect routing of oil pipes after reinstalling the engine following a clutch slave change/general Bay tidy-up caused a significant oil leak. The 2nd was alternator failure. In all I've been let down once by it's inherent 'TVRishness'. Below is a list of stuff I've done to it split in to the essential (ie to fix major problems/ keep it running), the 'nice to haves', and some that fall halfway between the two.
Essential
Starter motor refurb.
Door seals - upgraded to later type.
Clutch slave change x2 (including figuring out the Tilton Slave mod to ditch the TVR design) due to fluid leaks.
New clutch.
Replaced engine wiring loom. My '96 car had a huge connector going through the wing into the engine bay. Wiggling it caused all the sensor values to change so I made up a new loom that went straight through as per the later design.
Gearbox re-build due to whining noise and worn 2nd gear synchro.
Alternator voltage regulator change due to excessively high output voltage. Suspiciously I ended up being stranded with a dead alternator a few hundred miles after, I haven't proved it but I'd suggest the replacement VRM wasn't of great quality and died soon after installation.
Alternator change after the above.
A few lambda sensor changes.
Oil pressure switch change due to oil leaking from it.
Replaced exhaust heat-shield.
I'm now in the midst of a body-off rebuild due to a corroded chassis.
In Between
Reinstate Air Con. Cerberas were sold without a/c but they're so much nicer with it.
Respray. Scrapes down to bare fiberglass might have caused issues with water ingress. For other cars with superficial scratches this is a 'nice to have'.
Headlight relay mod to protect light control boxes.
Nice to have
Full interior re-trim. Could have got away with sorting the front seats & carpet but I ruined it by trying to use Furniture Clinic dye which didn't adhere that well to vinyl and looked tatty very quickly (although others have had good experiences) so ended up replacing the whole lot.
Installed extra fans to help cabin ventilation airflow.
Heater re-circ mod.
Other than that it's just servicing which I have also DIYed.
Usual advice, buy the latest built one you can afford thats got good paint, good interior, had the chassis sorted and you'll probably be OK with minor spannering. It'll be cheaper in the long run than buying a cheap one now and doing all the work yourself. Stick away £2-3k/yr just in case but I doubt you'll be using it.
If you think the above sounds like a lot of work, it is and it's more than I bargained for, but my inexperience meant I didn't know what I was getting in to. Having owned it it's brilliant and I've go no plans to sell it in the foreseeable
No I don't work for any owners club. Why do you ask ?A Cerbera's perennial weak points I'd say are(/can be):
Water leaks
Clutch/Clutch Hydraulics
Electrics
Depending on the condition of the particular one you purchase the chassis, engine, gearbox, interior and paint might also need expensive attention.
I bought a 66k mile '96 Cerbera 3 and a half years ago, and it was cheap (<£12k). The front wings were scraped where the owner had caught them getting in/out of a small garage, the air con system came in a bag with the car, and the interior was a bit worn, driver's seat in particular. I also has no previous experience of car maintenance/repair past trivial stuff like oil changes and brake changes. In 17k miles I've required the services of a breakdown company twice. The first was entirely caused by my own stupidity, incorrect routing of oil pipes after reinstalling the engine following a clutch slave change/general Bay tidy-up caused a significant oil leak. The 2nd was alternator failure. In all I've been let down once by it's inherent 'TVRishness'. Below is a list of stuff I've done to it split in to the essential (ie to fix major problems/ keep it running), the 'nice to haves', and some that fall halfway between the two.
Essential
Starter motor refurb.
Door seals - upgraded to later type.
Clutch slave change x2 (including figuring out the Tilton Slave mod to ditch the TVR design) due to fluid leaks.
New clutch.
Replaced engine wiring loom. My '96 car had a huge connector going through the wing into the engine bay. Wiggling it caused all the sensor values to change so I made up a new loom that went straight through as per the later design.
Gearbox re-build due to whining noise and worn 2nd gear synchro.
Alternator voltage regulator change due to excessively high output voltage. Suspiciously I ended up being stranded with a dead alternator a few hundred miles after, I haven't proved it but I'd suggest the replacement VRM wasn't of great quality and died soon after installation.
Alternator change after the above.
A few lambda sensor changes.
Oil pressure switch change due to oil leaking from it.
Replaced exhaust heat-shield.
I'm now in the midst of a body-off rebuild due to a corroded chassis.
In Between
Reinstate Air Con. Cerberas were sold without a/c but they're so much nicer with it.
Respray. Scrapes down to bare fiberglass might have caused issues with water ingress. For other cars with superficial scratches this is a 'nice to have'.
Headlight relay mod to protect light control boxes.
Nice to have
Full interior re-trim. Could have got away with sorting the front seats & carpet but I ruined it by trying to use Furniture Clinic dye which didn't adhere that well to vinyl and looked tatty very quickly (although others have had good experiences) so ended up replacing the whole lot.
Installed extra fans to help cabin ventilation airflow.
Heater re-circ mod.
Other than that it's just servicing which I have also DIYed.
Usual advice, buy the latest built one you can afford thats got good paint, good interior, had the chassis sorted and you'll probably be OK with minor spannering. It'll be cheaper in the long run than buying a cheap one now and doing all the work yourself. Stick away £2-3k/yr just in case but I doubt you'll be using it.
If you think the above sounds like a lot of work, it is and it's more than I bargained for, but my inexperience meant I didn't know what I was getting in to. Having owned it it's brilliant and I've go no plans to sell it in the foreseeable
And by the way, I'm not after an argument, I've just stated how I see Cerb ownership - based on owning one (and only one). I offered my advice to someone who asked for it.
Other people have their own experience, fine I accept that my experience with a Cerb won't align with others, the same applies to expectation.
Stu-nph26 said:
robsco said:
Basically, find yourself one that's had an engine rebuild, repaint, re-trim, chassis restoration, recent gearbox rebuild, clutch and completely re-wired and you're almost certainly guaranteed to be possibly as safe as houses.
This one is about as close as I can find. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... I need to organise going to see it, it's a 400-mile round trip. 
I really appreciate all the feedback guys very helpful. Next step is to test drive a couple of Cerbs, if I don't do it now I'm concerned I won't be able to in the future:
I'm going to arrange a drive of these two https://www.jamesagger.com/listings/1997-p-reg-tvr...
http://www.tvr-mads.co.uk/TVR848Y.html
I'm going to arrange a drive of these two https://www.jamesagger.com/listings/1997-p-reg-tvr...
http://www.tvr-mads.co.uk/TVR848Y.html
Stu-nph26 said:
I'm going to arrange a drive of these two https://www.jamesagger.com/listings/1997-p-reg-tvr...
http://www.tvr-mads.co.uk/TVR848Y.html
Easy choicehttp://www.tvr-mads.co.uk/TVR848Y.html
4.5 bottom end
Gorgeous colour
2003 model
Downside is that in the last four years it's only had a couple of services and a set of tyres - that doesn't even count
TBH the way each drives hardly matters
If one is a bit rubbish it could just need new bushes, shocks, or alignment, and that is not a major bill when you're forking out £24k plus
It takes very little for an engine to go off, most likely cause is valve clearances and general setup; not a major bill relative to the purchase price
The raw and brutal AJP8 is not a modern engine - it is a throwback to a different era, and that era is becoming more distant every year
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