No Oil Pressure - AJP8 Auxiliary Drive Shaft Failure

No Oil Pressure - AJP8 Auxiliary Drive Shaft Failure

Author
Discussion

CerbWill

670 posts

117 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Only way I can think of is to measure the journal diameter with a micrometer. If you're replacing main bearings I assume you're taking the crank out anyway.

If you're leaving the crank in you could see if a tame engine builder/kind forum member has a set of original diameter bearings laying about they could measure the thickness of to compare to 1 removed from your engine. If yours are 10 or 20 thou thicker then someone has had it apart before and reground the crank.

Edited by CerbWill on Wednesday 20th November 13:32

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
ukkid35 said:
CerbWill said:
If you're removing the sump you might as well remove and check each bearing one at a time. It's an opportunity to plastigauge them to assess wear vs the as new limits in the build manual too.
I'm assuming that it would be worth replacing mains and big ends as a matter of course

I can't be sure no one has been there before, so how will I be able to tell whether mains are standard or oversize?
Micrometer. The bearings are cheap, you might as well replace whilst you are there. I recommend Clevite 77.

itsallyellow

3,660 posts

219 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Agree with the above,

Once out just replace the big ends, easy to do and will give piece of mind....


Then upgrade to 4.7 change the cams, new timing chain, new alternator, new starter, referb throttle bodies and then paint the engine a nice colour!

Easy!

Then decide you should have had a nice set of exhaust manifolds made whilst it was out....

Take engine out again, port heads, skim heads, change cam timing, add sensors and upgrade ecu.....

Have fun! Love how we can play with these amazing cars whilst keeping them as they should be!

Mike

TwinKam

2,936 posts

94 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
ukkid35 said:
CerbWill said:
If you're removing the sump you might as well remove and check each bearing one at a time. It's an opportunity to plastigauge them to assess wear vs the as new limits in the build manual too.
I'm assuming that it would be worth replacing mains and big ends as a matter of course

I can't be sure no one has been there before, so how will I be able to tell whether mains are standard or oversize?
The shells will have the size marked on their backs, Paul.

Byker28i

58,803 posts

216 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
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itsallyellow said:
... and then paint the engine a nice colour!

Easy!
Black?





Then whilst apart you can buy polishing wheels and polish the air con compressor, the water downpipes, the oil filler cap. It really takes no time and makes a big difference.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Friday 22nd November 2019
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To my untrained eye it looks like I have dodged a bullet

I can't see any sign of damage due to oil starvation

The one point where you can see copper is directly opposite the cylinder that was pinking, I doubt that is by chance

Do the bearing markings help identify the size

ERR1765 and LA. 7300, Google finds a US Landrover forum, but not much else

The logo looks like they are made by Vandervell, who are part of Mahle who I do rate as premium manufacturer









Edited by ukkid35 on Friday 22 November 08:17

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Friday 22nd November 2019
quotequote all
CerbWill said:
The cams should be fine as they sit in a bath of oil. If your oil pump stopped it just means fresh oil wont be added to the bath and old oil spilled down the drains front and rear back to the sump.
I agree, so what do you reckon has caused the 'staining'?

To me it looks like there could have been something acidic contaminating the oil that ate in to them while the engine was untouched for months, hence the large contact area patch when the cam was sitting where there are no marks

Sagi Badger

588 posts

192 months

Saturday 23rd November 2019
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Ok, so I don’t have a v8 but I find this thread interesting.

The squeal referred to earlier in thread is, imho, most likely a belt slipping on start up. The shaft failure is not surprising given the length of these and the cyclic duty and load, anyway what can I add. I have done away with the sp6 ps pump and fitted a 106 leccy job, really to lose some inertia, am also doing away with the water pump on another build as the leccy pumps are light years ahead of mech ones these days. Secondly the bearings have pick up so probably got hot, they are scored as well so you may need a crank polish and if you Plastigauge check in two locations per journal to be sure they are round, you can do this in one pass so two strips per, unless you want to mic it in numerous locations and anyway checking bearings when assembled beats measuring shafts and holes as it eliminates chances of error.

J

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
quotequote all
I still can't remove the pump assembly

I've managed to loosen all four bolts, and then sliced off the heads of three of them

I thought this might allow the pump assembly to shift back enough to expose the shaft so I could slice through it

But sadly not

Also, the block has cracked where one of the pump bolts is located

With many of the pump fixings removed I can see that the water pump impellers are not seized

It's the oil pump that is seized, but the oil pickup is fully intact, so where the contamination came from is a mystery to me







The Nige

160 posts

188 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
quotequote all
From my experiance you will have to remove the front sprocket

and the 4 bolts and locking taps

before the pump assembly can be removed


ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
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Since the shaft is broken directly behind the bearing, I don't understand why it won't simply pull out

notaping

253 posts

70 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
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Do you have the water-pump-assembly.pdf? It details building the pump train. Might give you some insight.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
quotequote all
Yes I think I do have the PDF somewhere, but nothing is as it should be because of the failure

Parts are either welded together, seized, or broken, so most disassembly processes aren't going to work

For instance, I can't remove the PS pump, because the shaft is oriented so that I can't undo the grub screw on the coupler

notaping

253 posts

70 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
quotequote all
The power steering pump will come off without loosening the grub screw - leaving one side of the dog clutch on the shaft.



Once the PS pump is off you might have more room to attack the grub screw. Then with a bent 10mm spanner you can get to the back bolt holding on the P.A.S. carrier. Use some kind of puller to pull off the carrier. There's a bearing pressed into the carrier and onto the shaft. Might need some heat.



Once that's off you're into the workings of the oil pump.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Monday 2nd December 2019
quotequote all
notaping said:
The power steering pump will come off without loosening the grub screw - leaving one side of the dog clutch on the shaft.
You're quite right, I have already removed the pump itself, I meant to say the pump carrier

I will need to find a way to removed that rear nut, but even if I can do that I can't remove the coupler because of the grub screw

What might help more is if I can undo the front of the water pump assembly, but those four bolts look very awkward to remove

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Looking at the new shaft, I am sure it must have broken where it is narrowest immediately after the bearing

Therefore I reckon it should be possible to pull the gear and shaft through the bearing providing I use a suitable bearing puller

Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions as to what to use?

(I'm not going to try a slide hammer because of the crack in the block)


TwinKam

2,936 posts

94 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
I agree, but the trouble is, Paul, that even using a puller you'll still be exerting force on the wing of the block, as it will have to bear down on something somewhere. Perhaps get some heat on the bearing inner race and then gently lever with a couple of opposing pry bars.
But I still think that the gentle tap of a slide hammer would be the kindest, as it will be most linear.

Chimp871

837 posts

116 months

Saturday 7th December 2019
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Paul, if the block is possibly at risk is there no way to source a new gear and sacrifice it the seized one by cutting it off. Better than finding a non existent block.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,138 posts

172 months

Sunday 22nd December 2019
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TwinKam

2,936 posts

94 months

Sunday 22nd December 2019
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Well done Paul!
Did it take a lot of force?
Rik