Getting the most out of the Throttle Bodies
Discussion
My view is that if i can develop the std system then hopefully others can also use it.
As i said in my initial post for outright power i would go and spend my money on a set of titan roller barrel throttles. However where's the fun in that!
I have a plan for the throttles now. Once we have developed these it will be on to the secondry induction system! Im seeing carbon firbe....
Mike
As i said in my initial post for outright power i would go and spend my money on a set of titan roller barrel throttles. However where's the fun in that!
I have a plan for the throttles now. Once we have developed these it will be on to the secondry induction system! Im seeing carbon firbe....
Mike
The iris one is neat, been tried of course (what hasn't ? no-one is going to break any new ground here of course) .. but good luck sealing the leaves against the inlet vacuum and making them strong enough not to fold/collapse .. but then I'd be mighty impressed if you could get something radical like that to work 
so no need to not try .. best thing is to get all your ideas together and collated and then put them up and see which one people would think would work best. There's some very clever people on PH .. flow analysis and engine developers etc .. out of all the designs you might find something that's workable, and gives you the result you desire. Best of luck to you I say, as BCA said above, ajp8 development still continues
so no need to not try .. best thing is to get all your ideas together and collated and then put them up and see which one people would think would work best. There's some very clever people on PH .. flow analysis and engine developers etc .. out of all the designs you might find something that's workable, and gives you the result you desire. Best of luck to you I say, as BCA said above, ajp8 development still continues We need a few throttle bodies to develop to extinction.
Not an easy matter when mike reminded me of the cost of a set of original TVR throttle bodies.
Whats the chances of finding someone with a busted beyond economical repair set of throttle bodies to start milling them thinner and thinner to see where the daylight pokes out
.
Other than that we'd have to be quite conservative.
BTW I was quite surprised to find out the TVR original butterflies aren't hardend.
I would suspect you could halve the profile on them if they were, and they might need that if we end up going rodless.
But on all the rodless setups i've managed to search on the internet so far I've not understood a sensible way of securing the butterfly to whats left at the end of the rod.
Not an easy matter when mike reminded me of the cost of a set of original TVR throttle bodies.
Whats the chances of finding someone with a busted beyond economical repair set of throttle bodies to start milling them thinner and thinner to see where the daylight pokes out
.Other than that we'd have to be quite conservative.
BTW I was quite surprised to find out the TVR original butterflies aren't hardend.
I would suspect you could halve the profile on them if they were, and they might need that if we end up going rodless.
But on all the rodless setups i've managed to search on the internet so far I've not understood a sensible way of securing the butterfly to whats left at the end of the rod.
itsallyellow said:
I still think the idea you showed me would work. Is there any reason why you would need to be able to remove the butterfly once fitted??
Mike
The idea I showed you has one big glaring flaw. If I could think of a way round it we'd have a winner.Mike
It would work on an isolated throttle body, but not when you are stringing then together through a casting
.I'm much better at drawing on paper than using computerised etch-a-sketch they call windows paint, or I'd email you the problem.
I'll come up with a solution in a while.
You asked for it. I'm no good with windows etch-a-sketch. But ideas from the general community would be good.
They are two throttle bodies in a line.
My current cunning plan is to have the butterflies only held at each edge, by a spade poking out the spindle shaft. In other words the spindle shaft is made up of several pieces, and the butterfly forms part of the shaft itself.
The butterflies would be slightly thickend at this edge point and have a hole for a spade in them, but would otherwise be wafer thin.
This gives a problem that the spindles inside the casting (the blue and red bit) would have to be compressible. They will be sliding square shafts with a spring trapped along the shaft.insde the red tube and outside the blue.
The spindle would therefore be compressible inside the casting but on release would exert enough pressure outward to keep the spades firmly locked into the butterflies either side.
This leaves two major hurdles.
The effect of so many connections would be 'slop' in the system. And the adjustment of the butterflies to gain a good seal at tickover would be the sole job of the springs fighting eachother along the length of the whole system.
Other than that, looking down the port you'd only see a wafer thn butterfly and no sign of a rod.
Hi Guys,
I work for AT Power who make the spindleless throttle bodies. PH cropped up as you guys were linking to our site, I thought I would have a look.
I could tell you how we do it, but I would have to kill you all afterwards :-) It is patented though so hopefully we won't have any imported cheap rip offs made and sold on ebay.
Anyway the end result looks something like this
We normally get over 99.5% the same flow as an open bore (or roller barrel type), but with the benefits of a butterfly system.
I'd be interested in talking to you about your throttle bodies. Send me an email if you want.
Thanks,
John
j.goddard_AT_active-technologies.co.uk
I work for AT Power who make the spindleless throttle bodies. PH cropped up as you guys were linking to our site, I thought I would have a look.
I could tell you how we do it, but I would have to kill you all afterwards :-) It is patented though so hopefully we won't have any imported cheap rip offs made and sold on ebay.
Anyway the end result looks something like this
We normally get over 99.5% the same flow as an open bore (or roller barrel type), but with the benefits of a butterfly system.
I'd be interested in talking to you about your throttle bodies. Send me an email if you want.
Thanks,
John
j.goddard_AT_active-technologies.co.uk
ABSOLUTE LAYMAN ALERT.
Interesting thread, and reading it had an idea. I've noted what people say about shortening the induction (I assume trumpets) to help increased RPM HP+torque, at the expense of lower RPM torque.
..
.
Why couldn't you have the trumpets on some sort of servo such that can can extend/retract in response to current RPM from the ECU? Would you then be able to maintain your mid RPM torque, but get the bansaii top end with no downsides?
I'm thinking some kind of sleeving arrangement and a servo or something giving linear motion.
If this is a stupid idea just take me outside and shoot me quietly, ta.
Cheers,
Stu
Interesting thread, and reading it had an idea. I've noted what people say about shortening the induction (I assume trumpets) to help increased RPM HP+torque, at the expense of lower RPM torque.
..
.
Why couldn't you have the trumpets on some sort of servo such that can can extend/retract in response to current RPM from the ECU? Would you then be able to maintain your mid RPM torque, but get the bansaii top end with no downsides?
I'm thinking some kind of sleeving arrangement and a servo or something giving linear motion.
If this is a stupid idea just take me outside and shoot me quietly, ta.
Cheers,
Stu
The picture doesn't quite show everything, the spindle isn't held on just the bit you can see. I can say no more
Variable trumpet lengths have been around for ages in different types. Yamaha have a neat system on their new R1 bikes.
If you wanted an easy fix for your cerbera throttle bodies, you can always machine away most of the shaft, in fact you could machine most of the centre of it from one side away so the blades locate on the edges and are fixed onto the back of the shaft, if you catch my drift.
John.
Variable trumpet lengths have been around for ages in different types. Yamaha have a neat system on their new R1 bikes.
If you wanted an easy fix for your cerbera throttle bodies, you can always machine away most of the shaft, in fact you could machine most of the centre of it from one side away so the blades locate on the edges and are fixed onto the back of the shaft, if you catch my drift.
John.
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