MP4-12C photos and review/comparison
Discussion
jtremlett said:
Beefmeister said:
...To say 'Yes, you can have your car but no infotainment system for 3 months' is baffling. I just can't understand why they would let cars go out the door with known issues. As has been said before, what exactly was going on in the development testing phase?...
the pressures to get cars out must have been huge. Both from the point of view of getting money in to offset the up front expenditure and also from customers wanting their cars.It surprises me that a company with such a fundamental attention to detail ingrained in their work ethic could suffer from such (seemingly) "silly" things.
jtremlett said:
hilst I am surprised by all the faults being reported (and surprised by how forgiving some are) and I think it is clear they shouldn't have started deliveries for perhaps another 6 months, the pressures to get cars out must have been huge. Both from the point of view of getting money in to offset the up front expenditure and also from customers wanting their cars.
Jonathan
I agree that they were under a lot of pressure as they had already delayed my car from June to August and had they called me in August to say January, I probably would have asked for my money back, but this was of their own doing. Jonathan
They chose to show us the car two years ago and chose to ask us for a deposit a year ago. They must have known quite some time ago that the car wasn't going to be finished and as I said earleir, they seem a long way from solving the problems.
I imagine it's beena painful/expensive lesson for them. I'm sure they'll come back from this.
Maff said:
Its unfortunately a bit more than software issues. My car is currently back with McLaren with a tech from the factory looking at the numerous non-software issues, and my business partners car was collected today, along with the software faults that all cars have, his has gone back for all hardware related faults/failures and paint defects.
Whilst the car is superb to drive and be in as a driving experience, the customer satisfaction experience still leaves room for improvement, which to be fair McLaren are working on. However, with the issues our two cars have (numerous stupid software faults aside, two of which keep putting my car in limp mode) have I do sometimes wonder what their test engineers were doing for 5+ years.
All that waiting and delays leading to this. Whilst the car is superb to drive and be in as a driving experience, the customer satisfaction experience still leaves room for improvement, which to be fair McLaren are working on. However, with the issues our two cars have (numerous stupid software faults aside, two of which keep putting my car in limp mode) have I do sometimes wonder what their test engineers were doing for 5+ years.
Perhaps they should lend preproduction test cars out to customers for certain extreme driving trips around Europe or say a Scottish Highlands Loop. Sort the issues out before customer car deliveries.
Found some interesting quotes from an overwhelmingly positive feature on the MP4-12C in Top Gear magazine, March 2011, writer Jason Barlow:
[Barlow quotes Ron Dennis directly:] "We benchmarked the 12C against various cars, but when the Ferrari 458 appeared, we stopped benchmarking it against anything else. That's a great car. But choose any value, any measure, and our car will exceed it. We have always been passionate about measuring things scientifically. And we can prove scientifically that ours is the best sports car in history."
"The quality is exceptional, even on these pre-production cars. Mclaren admits its pushing its suppliers to the limit. I don't doubt it."
"To be honest, a few hours in a pre-production car is simply nowhere near long enough to understand a car as progressive or brilliantly executed as the Mclaren MP4-12C. This much I do know: it's a masterpiece of modern industrial design, geneticially modified and engineered to within a hair's breadth of greatness. No mathematical calculus is needed to prove that it's the best sports car ever made. I suspect that it is."
Seriously Mclaren, what the f**k happened? Were the pre-production cars manufactured differently in some way from the ones that customers have received?
[Barlow quotes Ron Dennis directly:] "We benchmarked the 12C against various cars, but when the Ferrari 458 appeared, we stopped benchmarking it against anything else. That's a great car. But choose any value, any measure, and our car will exceed it. We have always been passionate about measuring things scientifically. And we can prove scientifically that ours is the best sports car in history."
"The quality is exceptional, even on these pre-production cars. Mclaren admits its pushing its suppliers to the limit. I don't doubt it."
"To be honest, a few hours in a pre-production car is simply nowhere near long enough to understand a car as progressive or brilliantly executed as the Mclaren MP4-12C. This much I do know: it's a masterpiece of modern industrial design, geneticially modified and engineered to within a hair's breadth of greatness. No mathematical calculus is needed to prove that it's the best sports car ever made. I suspect that it is."
Seriously Mclaren, what the f**k happened? Were the pre-production cars manufactured differently in some way from the ones that customers have received?
Is there any truth in this report claiming McLaren has stopped production due to a number of serious safety and other concerns? Have been out of action for a while, so not sure if this has been covered already - and haven't seen any comments about it on the car mag websites.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/mclaren-stop...
"McLaren has finally started to deliver their newest supercar - the MP4-12C - and two of the units have already crashed. According to Wrecked Exotics, the first model crashed near the McLaren Technical Center in Woking, UK and the second in Hamburg, Germany. It is believed that the incident happened after drivers lost control of their cars at high speeds.
Now it seems as though McLaren has decided to stop production of the supercar due to safety problems. We don’t know if McLaren’s decision stemmed from these crashes or not, but AutoEvolution reports that the problems could affect driving safety and comfort, ranging from the brake hoses and door opening system to the glass engine cover and Iris entertainment system. There are also problems with the water ingress and the electrical cables in the dashboard.
We don’t know about you, but this sounds like a serious cause for concern and McLaren should definitely take another look at the MP4-12C. We just can’t believe that after years of development and production pushbacks, there could be so many disastrous problems with the vehicle. This could raise some serious doubt about McLaren’s future. Can they survive without Daimler?"
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/mclaren-stop...
"McLaren has finally started to deliver their newest supercar - the MP4-12C - and two of the units have already crashed. According to Wrecked Exotics, the first model crashed near the McLaren Technical Center in Woking, UK and the second in Hamburg, Germany. It is believed that the incident happened after drivers lost control of their cars at high speeds.
Now it seems as though McLaren has decided to stop production of the supercar due to safety problems. We don’t know if McLaren’s decision stemmed from these crashes or not, but AutoEvolution reports that the problems could affect driving safety and comfort, ranging from the brake hoses and door opening system to the glass engine cover and Iris entertainment system. There are also problems with the water ingress and the electrical cables in the dashboard.
We don’t know about you, but this sounds like a serious cause for concern and McLaren should definitely take another look at the MP4-12C. We just can’t believe that after years of development and production pushbacks, there could be so many disastrous problems with the vehicle. This could raise some serious doubt about McLaren’s future. Can they survive without Daimler?"
BelfastBoy said:
Seriously Mclaren, what the f**k happened? Were the pre-production cars manufactured differently in some way from the ones that customers have received?
Quite possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if all the components of the pre-production cars were manufactured in-house and then the specs were sent out to other manufacturers to produce them for the customer cars. Unfortunately many of these items don't sound like they've been manufactured within the tight tolerances required. I would have said that this is an example of why you have to be careful when outsourcing work to the Far East, but McLaren intimate that the majority of components are made in the UK. 
AngryApples said:
johnnyreggae said:
Auburn - there's already a thread about this and its lack of factual basis 'sensationalist nonsense'
Well,if its bull***t. I hope McLaren drag them into court over that as it makes definite claims that could damage the MP4's rep in a major way
ANDYCLAX said:
There are no safety concerns and production has not been stopped,there are a few issues that are being addressed,its a case of putting two and two together and coming up with 10,journalistic laziness,why not ring the factory before they print,i think if this was a mainstream car they would probably get a stern letter,i think Mclaren are bigger than this,afterall they are a two bit publication that gleen all their information from everyone else.
I received a call direct from the factory where they told me that they had stopped production and some of the recall work being done on my car now as we speak are safety related (brake hose connection and door latches)well, i think the early adopters of the MP4 will have some difficulties to sell them. clearly the first cars produced will be avoided by second hand buyers.
still can't believe how naive and unprofessionnal mclaren has been.
also, it would be interesting to know how many people first really ordered the car (because so far mclaren as been exagerating everything about this car) and second how any cancelled their order following all the bad press and delays.
in Autocar this week, montezemolo, who is probably quite aware of the luxury market, says that a waiting list has to be approx 8 months, more than that and people go to buy something else.
still can't believe how naive and unprofessionnal mclaren has been.
also, it would be interesting to know how many people first really ordered the car (because so far mclaren as been exagerating everything about this car) and second how any cancelled their order following all the bad press and delays.
in Autocar this week, montezemolo, who is probably quite aware of the luxury market, says that a waiting list has to be approx 8 months, more than that and people go to buy something else.
Lambo FirstBlood said:
This differs somewhat from what I've been told from Mclaren directly. There is no final fix date for IRIS. I've been told they're aiming for the end of the year but no guarantees. I've also been told by the head of after sales that it's definitely hardware too.
Seems utter madness that the hardware can still need months to be sorted, is IRIS developed externally or via the McLaren audio group?
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