McLaren 12c not selling?
Discussion
jgy6000 said:
Streetrod said:
On the positive side McLaren themselves are happy as they are exceeding their sales projection numbers with things ramping up with the introduction of the Spyder.
Really? Not from what i have seen. Infact its the complete opposite, where did you hear this?Also sales have taken a bump up with the introduction of the spyder which they predict will now account for 80%-90% of future production
jgy6000 said:
I doubt it very much, i worked there for the past 2 1/2 years and its not exactly a very big place so you hear a lot of things.
Where at their main headquarters? I would have to say I think they are not selling well due to people being put off by reliability and rushed to market. I also think they always seem to fall second best to the 458 in journalist comparisons, and people go on what they read.
The car is bound to stabilise and once it dips into the 130k area a further market will open for it which should booster the sales.
I found the journalist comparisons of the MP4-12C and the 458 a bit strange. They all raved about how fantastic the McLaren was and then quickly retracted it all based on fairly spurious Ferrari "passion" stuff. I have often wondered whether the UK journos were a bit worried about their future trips to Maranello if they upset Ferrari. Chris Harris gave Ferrari a hard time regarding the cars they present for comparitive testing, and I believe was as good as excommunicated.
propaganda said:
I found the journalist comparisons of the MP4-12C and the 458 a bit strange. They all raved about how fantastic the McLaren was and then quickly retracted it all based on fairly spurious Ferrari "passion" stuff. I have often wondered whether the UK journos were a bit worried about their future trips to Maranello if they upset Ferrari. Chris Harris gave Ferrari a hard time regarding the cars they present for comparitive testing, and I believe was as good as excommunicated.
My recollection was that the media didn't take to the Mclaren at all, in fact found it a little boring although very capable!.Here is the link of Chris Harris review that upset Ferrari
http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
It’s not fair to compare the Gallardo with a 12C; one is now almost 10 years old. I ran a 2012 Gallardo SP for 3 months this year. To be fair the V10 is a screamer, but that’s it. Even Lamborghini have had to delay the replacement due to the 12C. In particular the 13 MY.
With regard to sales figures. There are a lot more 458s for sale than on here. I don’t feel that it appropriate to post just how many as I have no wish to own a 458, it may well be the same with the 12C, but I doubt it. I know about 15, 12c owners around the world. All are keeping or like me moving on to a convertible.
I can say that demand for the 12C convertible is ahead of target, Along with that I would expect 12C Coupe prices to firm up here next year, due to the low nos.
With regard to sales figures. There are a lot more 458s for sale than on here. I don’t feel that it appropriate to post just how many as I have no wish to own a 458, it may well be the same with the 12C, but I doubt it. I know about 15, 12c owners around the world. All are keeping or like me moving on to a convertible.
I can say that demand for the 12C convertible is ahead of target, Along with that I would expect 12C Coupe prices to firm up here next year, due to the low nos.
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 30th December 21:18
Escaped my 12 c with a thrashing! Residuals are a disaster and ibdo not believe you have seen an end to it!
I now have a 458 spider in my garage and feel safer as McLaren are on a very steep learning curve and tend not to listen.
The 12 c is a better car than the 458 but I for one cannot afford the associated costs. The car is more expensive new than the 458 it does not have ceramics but needs them , it does not have a 7 year service package and residuals are a serious joke.
A very expensive experience and I sold it because I could see no bottom as said earlier there is nothing else in the range to prop it up
I now have a 458 spider in my garage and feel safer as McLaren are on a very steep learning curve and tend not to listen.
The 12 c is a better car than the 458 but I for one cannot afford the associated costs. The car is more expensive new than the 458 it does not have ceramics but needs them , it does not have a 7 year service package and residuals are a serious joke.
A very expensive experience and I sold it because I could see no bottom as said earlier there is nothing else in the range to prop it up
Maff said:
In terms of MP4 Spider sales, with a lot of phoning about, I could get a new factory ordered spider with a three month wait time. Not so for the 458 spider.
I wonder if that is due to spare manufacturing capacity at McLaren. After all, they only make one model of car at the moment.It was great to hear Bruce's candid ownership story.
Edited by red_duke on Sunday 30th December 21:41
Edited by red_duke on Sunday 30th December 21:43
BruceC said:
Escaped my 12 c with a thrashing! Residuals are a disaster and ibdo not believe you have seen an end to it!
I now have a 458 spider in my garage and feel safer as McLaren are on a very steep learning curve and tend not to listen.
The 12 c is a better car than the 458 but I for one cannot afford the associated costs. The car is more expensive new than the 458 it does not have ceramics but needs them , it does not have a 7 year service package and residuals are a serious joke.
A very expensive experience and I sold it because I could see no bottom as said earlier there is nothing else in the range to prop it up
I take it the residual loss was upsetting then lol? I now have a 458 spider in my garage and feel safer as McLaren are on a very steep learning curve and tend not to listen.
The 12 c is a better car than the 458 but I for one cannot afford the associated costs. The car is more expensive new than the 458 it does not have ceramics but needs them , it does not have a 7 year service package and residuals are a serious joke.
A very expensive experience and I sold it because I could see no bottom as said earlier there is nothing else in the range to prop it up
That's the problem I am noticing with them is that in less and a year, you lose near on 60k. That's 5k a month, 1.25k a week.
This doesn't include the running costs either.
I wonder if that's why Mclaren London are advertising their cars with 2 years inclusive service on PH? Obviously they are trying to mirror Ferrari in that aspect to try and attract sales.
Edited by baileyconstruct on Sunday 30th December 22:07
APOLO1 said:
There is no wait time for the 458 Sp. there are cars at dealerships. One thing for sure ,458 or a 12c, we are going to lose money
The purpose of this thread is not to merely say that both cars will lose money. I am no idiot and realise I will lose money on my 458 as do other owners. The thread was to discuss the reason of the sudden write down of the mclaren don't get me wrong, it's a fab car and it was the fact I read an article in Evo mag about how they are dropping like a stone.
Maybe I should have hung fire for the new year and went with the 12c as I am sure I could pick one up for 135k.
BruceC said:
The 12 c is a better car than the 458 but I for one cannot afford the associated costs. The car is more expensive new than the 458 it does not have ceramics but needs them , it does not have a 7 year service package and residuals are a serious joke.
Bruce, I am not having a dig here, just an honest question, but could you please explain a little more about what you mean in the above statement. If you can afford to spend nearly £200k on a car how then could you not afford the associated costs? Having just done a very rough bit of maths based on a few cars in the classifieds the depreciation on both the 12C and the 458 in percentage terms seems about the same, or am I missing something here?Also every single review I have read on the 12C states that for street driving the standard brakes are better than the ceramics, they are even lighter if I am not mistaken
As someone interested in the 12c, the big question for me is where residuals will bottom out or steady. Certainly some of the cars currently advertised via the main dealers have been sitting around for 4-6 months, and the prices are dropping - good for a prospective buyer if there is some light at the end of the depreciation tunnel, not so good if they continue to drop without an end in sight. My concern would be shifting the car on in 12-24 months, would the dealers be interested? In fact current owners should be worried as there does not seem to be enough market turnover by the dealers to support decent residuals.
Perhaps McLaren should offer extended warranty & servicing plans to support sales and firm the marketplace nerves.
Perhaps McLaren should offer extended warranty & servicing plans to support sales and firm the marketplace nerves.
For what it's worth the Mac is the best car I've ever had.Owned it from new and adore it.Don't like losing money but those who buy cars like this to eye the depreciation curve surely miss the point.Love the 458 too and owned two but it's the Mac every time for me.As for 458 Spider can pick used up for under list,they are below list bid in the trade and I've had two dealers offer me new/physical cars.I'm sure it's epic too,just not into convertibles personally.The economy impacts everything,and super cars should be no different (quite the opposite in fact) but nobody in their right mind worries about that when they're driving the damn thing.Eyeballing the classifieds isn't nearly as much fun..If you've not driven one I heartily recommend a drive in the Mac if only to decide for yourself it's not for you.I was blown away,but I'm sure it's not for everyone which is what makes these threads fun...
Ps not had upgrades to my Mac yet...in no hurry tbh,enjoying it too much as is.
Ps not had upgrades to my Mac yet...in no hurry tbh,enjoying it too much as is.
gunner said:
For what it's worth the Mac is the best car I've ever had.Owned it from new and adore it.Don't like losing money but those who buy cars like this to eye the depreciation curve surely miss the point.Love the 458 too and owned two but it's the Mac every time for me.As for 458 Spider can pick used up for under list,they are below list bid in the trade and I've had two dealers offer me new/physical cars.I'm sure it's epic too,just not into convertibles personally.The economy impacts everything,and super cars should be no different (quite the opposite in fact) but nobody in their right mind worries about that when they're driving the damn thing.Eyeballing the classifieds isn't nearly as much fun..If you've not driven one I heartily recommend a drive in the Mac if only to decide for yourself it's not for you.I was blown away,but I'm sure it's not for everyone which is what makes these threads fun...
Ps not had upgrades to my Mac yet...in no hurry tbh,enjoying it too much as is.
Get the upgrade done you will be blown away. The MP4 has always been a step in front of the 458 technology wise and speed but lacked the passion, now with the blip on down change and even faster it has it. The upgrades are going to be free for the life of the model ie 5 years which I think is a game changer, I do think they should match Ferrari with the 7 year service or go 5 years to line up with free upgrades. I agree with you on the residual thing, the problem is for the last 15 or so years people have been able to jump from coupe to spider to new model and so on with little loss due to controlled supply and demand, however these days demand has slipped yet supply in this sector is going up as more manufacturers try to muscle in on what has been a very profitable sector. Mclaren must be having a bit of dej a vous on this one remember their last venture into car manufacturing with the F1 just as the economy bombed, but then look how their residuals have recovered.Ps not had upgrades to my Mac yet...in no hurry tbh,enjoying it too much as is.
propaganda said:
Wise words. Normally I pay little heed to the depreciation curve but the 12c has taken a bit of a hammering initially, which is both good and bad depending on which side you are on.
I'm no millionaire, far from it and if my wife knew how much I have spent / lost on cars in the last 10 years she would be less than pleased to say the least, but life is to short. Buy with your heart and enjoy to the full, you come into this world with nowt and you should leave with nowt but happy memories of that blast in your cars or that fab holiday not how your Kids or relatives are going to enjoy their inheritance, money is only any good if you spend it, thats why we invented it, not to stuff your mattress or worry about. Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff