Definition of a supercar
Discussion
I think that GT2 belongs to the hotel. I'm working near there and see that and a yellow Lambo parked outside daily.
Aren't they about 500 grand now? I suspect 99 out of a 100 people would pick the Lambo out of the two but I think the Porsche is worth more. The Lambo looks way more Supercar though.
Aren't they about 500 grand now? I suspect 99 out of a 100 people would pick the Lambo out of the two but I think the Porsche is worth more. The Lambo looks way more Supercar though.
MKnight702 said:
Every time this topic comes up my answer is the same. A supercar is about more than just speed. A supercar needs to have something undefinable. The brand is vital, Ford can never make a supercar (sorry R8 boys, neither can Audi) because the brand is diluted by the shopping hatch back. Chuck a set of Audi keys on the bar and nobody will give a second glance, chuck Lamborghini keys on the bar and it's completely different.
In this way, IMO, Porsche also rule themselves out, Great Aunt Mable wouldn't be able to tell at a glance that the 911 GT3 RS parked across the street was any different to the Carrera parked on her neighbours drive, however, she would, in all probability, be able to tell that a Huracan was out of the ordinary and not something she saw every day. The same with primary school kids, park a Countach outside and they would notice, park an R8 there and chances are they wouldn't be as impressed. The R8 is perfectly capable of running rings around the Countach and I know which would be better to be sat in for a long journey, plus Audi throw in every day usability and reliability and other such friparies. But I would pick the Countach over the R8 every day if given a choice to drive.
Throwing keys on bar wtf. When I go to a bar I don’t drive. I’m there to have a few drinks and enjoy myself not try to impress strangers with my brand of carIn this way, IMO, Porsche also rule themselves out, Great Aunt Mable wouldn't be able to tell at a glance that the 911 GT3 RS parked across the street was any different to the Carrera parked on her neighbours drive, however, she would, in all probability, be able to tell that a Huracan was out of the ordinary and not something she saw every day. The same with primary school kids, park a Countach outside and they would notice, park an R8 there and chances are they wouldn't be as impressed. The R8 is perfectly capable of running rings around the Countach and I know which would be better to be sat in for a long journey, plus Audi throw in every day usability and reliability and other such friparies. But I would pick the Countach over the R8 every day if given a choice to drive.
The thing that’s great about the r8 is that you can tell people you drive an Audi if they ask. Sometimes it’s funny when they see the R8 later. I enjoy that more than when I had to say Porsche or Maserati, it’s more subtle and people don’t pigeon hole you so early on
R8 is a supercar to me. Glass engine cover, metal gate, Quicksilver exhaust, carbon side blades. Looks and sounds exotic. Gets lots of looks and comments. I know not everyone in fact hardly anyone on here agrees and that’s fine.
Obviously not a black and white answer but I’d say a set of criteria, the more met the more definitive:
Brand: a Pagani or Bugatti would automatically apply, they don’t do anything else. Whereas this would count against Audi & Porsche due to their lower models and 4wds.
Engine, NA and exotic helps, mid engined V10 or V12 puts you to the front of the queue.
Looks: low, wide and exotic. Doors go up, almost definitely.
Practicality. 2 seats, tiny boot, hard to get into; go straight to the front please.
Performance. Needs to be in the elite of its era, acceleration and top speed more weight than lap times.
Emotive, i’d nod with respect if a gt3 drove past. I’d think f
k yes if a Lambo did.
Alpha dog of the brand: case is much stronger for a 720 or 675lt, far from conclusive for a 540
So an Aventador ticks every box, not much room for argument.
911 fails. R8 borderline, ticks engine, practicality and performance. Fails on brand and is subjective on looks and whether emotive. McLaren super series passes as well, it only misses on engine but room for debate on the sport series .
Brand: a Pagani or Bugatti would automatically apply, they don’t do anything else. Whereas this would count against Audi & Porsche due to their lower models and 4wds.
Engine, NA and exotic helps, mid engined V10 or V12 puts you to the front of the queue.
Looks: low, wide and exotic. Doors go up, almost definitely.
Practicality. 2 seats, tiny boot, hard to get into; go straight to the front please.
Performance. Needs to be in the elite of its era, acceleration and top speed more weight than lap times.
Emotive, i’d nod with respect if a gt3 drove past. I’d think f
k yes if a Lambo did.Alpha dog of the brand: case is much stronger for a 720 or 675lt, far from conclusive for a 540
So an Aventador ticks every box, not much room for argument.
911 fails. R8 borderline, ticks engine, practicality and performance. Fails on brand and is subjective on looks and whether emotive. McLaren super series passes as well, it only misses on engine but room for debate on the sport series .
Guffy said:
Subjective and emotive... to me a supercar is something that's largely unobtainable to your average man in the street, is poster worthy and not practical to use every day.
I have an R8 V10, based on the above i label it a sports car
How is an R8 let alone a v10 obtainable to the average man in the street? You’re living in a bubble if you think that. There’s a big difference between getting a knock down quarter end manufacturer subsidised pcp deal on a new car, and obtaining credit of £40k+ And commuting to the extremely high running costs of an older r8. A £40k new car pcp that will have zero running costs is a different ball game. I have an R8 V10, based on the above i label it a sports car
I’d also argue that it is poster worthy, the Audi brand is right up there at the moment for the youth, who are the people who have posters, it’s possibly more desirable than Porsche and you’re just as likely to see an r8 on a bedroom wall as a Ferrari. If you don’t believe me look at children’s remote control toy cars. Plenty of r8’s available
Every day use is a funny one. Any car can be used every day, the boot on the r8 is pathetic, it’s a very wide car, and personally I don’t like leaving mine at the station or putting long motorway journeys on mine.
I think it’s a supercar to the majority, I do understand why some differ and respect that view too. Some people say the v8 is too slow. I drive mine round the SE and can honestly say I’d struggle to use any more power. Rarely can you open it up for more than a few seconds in normal driving.
jakesmith said:
Guffy said:
Subjective and emotive... to me a supercar is something that's largely unobtainable to your average man in the street, is poster worthy and not practical to use every day.
I have an R8 V10, based on the above i label it a sports car
How is an R8 let alone a v10 obtainable to the average man in the street? You’re living in a bubble if you think that. There’s a big difference between getting a knock down quarter end manufacturer subsidised pcp deal on a new car, and obtaining credit of £40k+ And commuting to the extremely high running costs of an older r8. A £40k new car pcp that will have zero running costs is a different ball game. I have an R8 V10, based on the above i label it a sports car
I’d also argue that it is poster worthy, the Audi brand is right up there at the moment for the youth, who are the people who have posters, it’s possibly more desirable than Porsche and you’re just as likely to see an r8 on a bedroom wall as a Ferrari. If you don’t believe me look at children’s remote control toy cars. Plenty of r8’s available
Every day use is a funny one. Any car can be used every day, the boot on the r8 is pathetic, it’s a very wide car, and personally I don’t like leaving mine at the station or putting long motorway journeys on mine.
I think it’s a supercar to the majority, I do understand why some differ and respect that view too. Some people say the v8 is too slow. I drive mine round the SE and can honestly say I’d struggle to use any more power. Rarely can you open it up for more than a few seconds in normal driving.
The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
It's not about performance. Nobody would argue whether a Countach or Testarossa are supercars, but they will be outperformed by modern hot-hatches and executive saloons. Like wise lap times. They are not racing cars.
It's not about the engine. There are plenty of cars with large capacity, high output V8/10/12s out there, whether saloons, GT cars, estates or even SUVs.
It's not about the heritage. Koenigsegg was only founded 25 years ago. Surely a supercar maker?
It's maybe about the badge. It's maybe about the name. It has to sound exotic and expensive. This is why Audi will never make a Supercar, no matter how good (or not) an R8 is IMHO. See also the Honda NSX.
It is definitely about production numbers. Supercars do not come off a production line. There has to be an element of real exclusivity about them.
A true supercar has to make no concessions towards practicality, ease of use, service intervals or comfort. It has to be loud, and visually striking with superfluous wings, vents and appendages. It is definitely about form, not function. It has to lack all measure of subtlety and decency. It is a car which will be the centre of attention wherever you take it. It must turn heads even when parked in Porto Cervo or Casino Square. It has to be a completely unjustifiable indulgence.
All IMHO of course.
It's not about the engine. There are plenty of cars with large capacity, high output V8/10/12s out there, whether saloons, GT cars, estates or even SUVs.
It's not about the heritage. Koenigsegg was only founded 25 years ago. Surely a supercar maker?
It's maybe about the badge. It's maybe about the name. It has to sound exotic and expensive. This is why Audi will never make a Supercar, no matter how good (or not) an R8 is IMHO. See also the Honda NSX.
It is definitely about production numbers. Supercars do not come off a production line. There has to be an element of real exclusivity about them.
A true supercar has to make no concessions towards practicality, ease of use, service intervals or comfort. It has to be loud, and visually striking with superfluous wings, vents and appendages. It is definitely about form, not function. It has to lack all measure of subtlety and decency. It is a car which will be the centre of attention wherever you take it. It must turn heads even when parked in Porto Cervo or Casino Square. It has to be a completely unjustifiable indulgence.
All IMHO of course.
Guffy said:
Like i said, it's all subjective
The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
I couldn’t imagine driving my V10 everyday, it’d get right on my tits. The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
The only daily driver for real men is a Range Rover.
m4tti said:
Guffy said:
Like i said, it's all subjective
The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
I couldn’t imagine driving my V10 everyday, it’d get right on my tits. The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
The only daily driver for real men is a Range Rover.
thecook101 said:
m4tti said:
Guffy said:
Like i said, it's all subjective
The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
I couldn’t imagine driving my V10 everyday, it’d get right on my tits. The R8 was my only car for 2 years, even got the weekly shop with it and as you say, they can now be picked up for £40k, not really what i would call 'supercar' territory.
Plenty of people i've met have told tell me they consider it a 'supercar' though, no problem with that, just not my opinion.
The only daily driver for real men is a Range Rover.
Larry5.2 said:
Wasn't it a few pages back in this thread that someone said an 8-yr old boy is the only valid judge of whether it is a Supercar or not? If, on seeing one, he points and says "Look daddy... LOOK!" then it is a Supercar.
I'm pretty sure if I drove around in a Challenger 2 tank* there would be plenty of 8 year old boys pointing and shouting. This is not a good metric.*Or fire engine, tractor, bin lorry, monster truck etc.
"Supercar" is nothing more than marketing hype - the manufacturers/dealers will add their own criteria which then leaves the individual to accept or define their own for what makes the car "super".
Everyone already knows what they would include or not in their own definition of 'supercar' and there will never be a consensus due to the vast range of individual criteria.
Everyone already knows what they would include or not in their own definition of 'supercar' and there will never be a consensus due to the vast range of individual criteria.
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