Do you/Can you, really enjoy DRIVING your supercar anymore?

Do you/Can you, really enjoy DRIVING your supercar anymore?

Author
Discussion

_Leg_

2,406 posts

163 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
_Leg_ said:
Deleted it. Thought I had blathered on a bit.

Sorry.
Well, it is sort of true and insightful even if people didn't comment. What are your plans for the future? Have you decided to play with cars for a while or start another business?
I won't start another business. I don't want to get into another 5 years plus of 100% commitment and time and if you start a business you have to do that to make it work in my experience.

My wife was a Nurse Practitioner, she did a PhD and is now a researcher and lecturer at York Uni 3 days a week so for now I've been supporting her and my lads who are finishing A levels/mid way through Uni respectively, as well as travelling, racing etc.

Ideally I would like to get involved in helping another business for a couple of days a week or something like that but tbh I haven't really looked at it yet. I'll think about it seriously when I get home.

Might have sorted it though. Got chatting to a chap in the hotel bar last night who works for Force India F1 putting up their motorhome etc at the European races and offered my services making tea, carrying and generally dogsbodying for free. He took my number...... ;-)

Anyway, back to enjoying the cars. Touring isn't just about the driving (or showing off about £150 private tours - haha), it's about what might be around the next corner too........just arrived in Speyer and it turns out there's a festival on and I had no idea.. Bonus! That's my evening sorted. Ferry tomorrow, then Blighty.

Last pics from the trip. Stelvio, very wet but a nice rainbow. The car has fared well over it's 3 weeks across Europe. The only issue is a clunk in the driver's seat on hairpins which I suspect may well be a Euro that's dropped out of my pocket and got into the seat somewhere.





I scraped (lightly) a barrier with the 458's mirror in Austria trying to get a better view round a right hander on a mountain pass. Temporary repair raised a few smiles around Austria but it will need painting when I get home. Thankfully an easy fix with a mirror casing and the PPF seemed to take the brunt of the clout.


johnwilliams77

6,433 posts

55 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
My word, that car is stunning. The hard work must feel worth it now...

_Leg_

2,406 posts

163 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
Thanks. Sorry I didn't mean to hijack the thread, I was simply pointing out, and demonstrating, that we can, and should, use our cars and Europe is still a great place to visit whether you're doing a lads trip where it's all about the drive or a 'tour' in the traditional sense where it's all about the destination. I think you can still do this in the UK too but to a lesser degree.

When I get home I'll do a write up of the trips with the routes, hotels etc. in a specific thread in the correct forum.

ghost83

3,496 posts

142 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
Amazing leg! Simply amazing!

_Leg_

2,406 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Well that was a lively evening. You have to hand it to the Germans, they can organise a piss up in a field.

Four fat blokes in Dirndl dresses singing various traditional 'karaoke' style songs was strange enough but when they knocked Jorja Smith's Blue Lights out it was a bit bizarre.

Random st that happens on a road trip...

Trev450

5,881 posts

124 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Sounds like you are having a ball.

Reminds me of a time quite a few years ago when returning from watching the German Grand Prix and we rolled into Strasbourg only to find there was a beer festival going on. Sometimes these chance finds can be the best.

pete_esp

48 posts

47 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
_Leg_ said:
I won't start another business. I don't want to get into another 5 years plus of 100% commitment and time and if you start a business you have to do that to make it work in my experience.

My wife was a Nurse Practitioner, she did a PhD and is now a researcher and lecturer at York Uni 3 days a week so for now I've been supporting her and my lads who are finishing A levels/mid way through Uni respectively, as well as travelling, racing etc.

Ideally I would like to get involved in helping another business for a couple of days a week or something like that but tbh I haven't really looked at it yet. I'll think about it seriously when I get home.

Might have sorted it though. Got chatting to a chap in the hotel bar last night who works for Force India F1 putting up their motorhome etc at the European races and offered my services making tea, carrying and generally dogsbodying for free. He took my number...... ;-)

Anyway, back to enjoying the cars. Touring isn't just about the driving (or showing off about £150 private tours - haha), it's about what might be around the next corner too........just arrived in Speyer and it turns out there's a festival on and I had no idea.. Bonus! That's my evening sorted. Ferry tomorrow, then Blighty.

Last pics from the trip. Stelvio, very wet but a nice rainbow. The car has fared well over it's 3 weeks across Europe. The only issue is a clunk in the driver's seat on hairpins which I suspect may well be a Euro that's dropped out of my pocket and got into the seat somewhere.





I scraped (lightly) a barrier with the 458's mirror in Austria trying to get a better view round a right hander on a mountain pass. Temporary repair raised a few smiles around Austria but it will need painting when I get home. Thankfully an easy fix with a mirror casing and the PPF seemed to take the brunt of the clout.

Hi _Leg_!

I was the drooling idiot in the queue beside you for the ferry to France. Your car cheered up my 2 boys (6 & 2.5 years old) and my wife after a very long day and drive from Edinburgh. We especially enjoyed the little throttle blip on your way through... so I guess a family of 4 can still enjoy you driving a supercar. Thanks for that! (Though I didn't enjoy explaining to Mrs Esp that we couldn't get a car like that unless we sold our house and moved into the car).

Hope you had a great trip!

(Plot twist, I was in the wrong queue, we were going to Le Havre)



_Leg_

2,406 posts

163 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
pete_esp said:
Hi _Leg_!

I was the drooling idiot in the queue beside you for the ferry to France. Your car cheered up my 2 boys (6 & 2.5 years old) and my wife after a very long day and drive from Edinburgh. We especially enjoyed the little throttle blip on your way through... so I guess a family of 4 can still enjoy you driving a supercar. Thanks for that! (Though I didn't enjoy explaining to Mrs Esp that we couldn't get a car like that unless we sold our house and moved into the car).

Hope you had a great trip!

(Plot twist, I was in the wrong queue, we were going to Le Havre)
Always give the kiddies a blip if they're excited about seeing the car. Drives my wife mad because I always stop, chat and let kids from 3 to 103 sit in the cars if people show interest. Had a plod sat in the Spider once with the other plod taking photos. I'm stood there thinking 'don't notice there's no plate on the front' over and over lol.

If it inspires kids to crack on and get one themselves one day and stops people thinking anyone in a supercar is a tt, great.

Didn't know you could get to France from Hull. I've only done Zebrugge and Rotterdam.






Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 20th July 15:47

pete_esp

48 posts

47 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Ah! We went form Portsmouth so it wasn't you after all... Mistaken identity there.

Still, love the car and in the flesh they really are something else!

And on topic there are still some great roads up here in Scotland where you can enjoy your car. Obviously not at the limits of what a supercar is capable of but still, do you need to be on the edge to enjoy the drive?

_Leg_

2,406 posts

163 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
pete_esp said:
Ah! We went form Portsmouth so it wasn't you after all... Mistaken identity there.

Still, love the car and in the flesh they really are something else!

And on topic there are still some great roads up here in Scotland where you can enjoy your car. Obviously not at the limits of what a supercar is capable of but still, do you need to be on the edge to enjoy the drive?
Ah, sorry I say hello and chat with so many people when I'm out n about I'm never sure.

I've done the NC500 twice. Once in the 458 and once in my 981 Boxster S. the Boxster was the better car for it (size and dampening).

It could do with some better hotels although the one in Bettyhill (Bettyhill Hotel if memory serves) is quite good. The big one in Gairloch is the worst hotel I've ever stayed in though.

I plan to do it in my mk1 Escort RS1600 BDA one day. Security worries me though as you could nick old Escorts with a spoon.

carspath

Original Poster:

573 posts

129 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
Bispal , I couldn't express my own sentiments more eloquently than you have done above .


That's why I adore my mk 1 MX5


And its not just the SE UK either .


I've just returned from my 2nd European trip .


The first was to Bologna to the Lambo family museum , and then south to Umbria to Ferruccio's old vineyard , where I was luck enough to meet his old book-keeper. This trip was over 3 1/2 weeks , and 5000 km , and was mainly to collect material for a Countach book.


The second trip , again was for 3 1/2 weeks , and involved over 7000 km , driving through Germany , then Austria , Hungary , Slovenia and Italy
. The reason for this trip was to gather material for a KTM X-BOW book : I spent time at the KTM factory in Graz, at the KISKA design studio outside Salzburg , at the Pannioring circuit in Hungary for the X-BOW Battle , and then most importantly , and most interestingly at Dallara , where I got to meet the legendary Giampaolo Dallara , who is now 81 years old and who still does a 12 hour day , 6 days a week. I also got taken out in the new Dallara Stradale ---wow !


Had an epic drive for 1 1/2 hours on the Grossglockner , but by 6.35 am it was time to go back to the hotel because of the traffic

You will catch the most wonderful drive by chance from time to time , but spirited European driving , using a supercar to 40% of its ability for 40% of the time is now really a myth

You could do it 20 years ago , but not today .


And I don't buy the idea of DRIVING a supercar to go to Tesco


You do have much more fun DRIVING in a MX5 for 95% of the time , simply because you have to push the car harder to get anywhere near any given limit ---beit grip , cornering, top speed ,acceleration or braking.

And because you are pushing more , you as a driver are more involved.....and surely that's where the fun of DRIVING comes in

The sad truth is that I've almost stopped DRIVING my supercars ---I get more joy just looking at them !!

Hidden , unmarked cameras have really taken the fun out of driving ------------being alert , even hyper-alert , is now not good enough

carspath

Original Poster:

573 posts

129 months

Tuesday 3rd March
quotequote all
OP here , putting ( or more accurately NOT putting ) his money where his mouth is .

Spent the last 18 months thinking about what to substitute / run alongside my 147,000 mile , 27 year old MX5 Series 1 .

It had to have decent REAL WORLD performance ( with power to weight and torque to weight being useful measures) , look good , be reliable , and be narrow ( really important in my opinion )
But most of all it had to be engaging

My short-list was :

Another MX5 series 1
Elise
Exige
4C
2nd hand 540C / 570S

The McLarens were real considerations as they are such good value , great performers , have those doors and a carbon tub .
But rightly or wrongly , reports about their reliability were a worry

I also took onboard Thorney Motorsports MD's comment that 7 of the 9 key McLaren engineers that designed the 12C were ex-Lotus

A 2010 Chrome Orange Elise S3 with the 2ZZ-GE engine turned up at Bella nd Colvill exactly 2 months ago today .
I went down the next afternoon , and Jamie Matthews showed me around both this N/A car as wel las a S/C car

The S/C car was undoubtedly faster , but I felt that it gave you less time to enjoy revving the car through the gears before hitting the 60 or 70 mph limit .

The N/A car has less power and torque ( 189 bhp / 133 lb-ft ) AND compounds this by only achieving this at quite high rpms for a road car ( 7800 and 6800 respectively )
This is a marmite choice , as many people don't like this type of high rev power delivery .
In fact there are relatively few 2ZZ engined S3 Elises , as emissions regulations meant that Lotus had to change to the 2ZR cars soon after the introduction of the S3 model -- the 2ZR produced higher torque lower down the rev range , but its rev limit was significantly lower . You don't have to work it so hard , but equally you cannot work it as hard .

I felt that the 2ZZ N/A car would force me to work harder to get it moving and therefore be the more engaging -- and hence it was my choice .

The car is factory standard , but I have asked for 1 modification - Jim Valentine has put on a 6 inch 2bular backbox , and I have asked him to make it loud , loud , loud

I am picking it up tomorrow , and I don't know if my theoretical logic will stand up to the scrutiny of real world driving .

I hope that I will not be disappointed .

I hope to be able to actually use this Elise
Todays supercars , in my opinion , are too wide , need too high a speed before they engage , are too electronic , are too gadget-laden , and are too digital in their delivery .
They are also simply not as useable ( and this applies to any fastish car , not just supercars ) on today's camera-infested and traffic-clogged roads - something that was not such a restricting factor 20 years ago .

Will a relatively inexpensive , narrow , naturally aspirated manual car , driven by a low powered and low torqued engine which needs high rpm , in a light-weight body , with Toyota reliability fulfill the above mentioned criteria ?

Wish me luck


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:26


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:31


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:32

davek_964

6,560 posts

127 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
Oh good, this thread is back. So you think supercars are pointless, and you've bought another car which isn't a supercar.

I'm off to the TVR forum to tell them why I haven't bought a TVR.

Larry5.2

450 posts

60 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
Good luck smile

I agree on your comment about the modern supercars. Some people will want them because they feel good about the numbers, yet will never exploit them.

Juber

446 posts

90 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
Interesting post. I dont have any experience to comment on the new turbo charged supercars.

I drove my friends 458 several times and that was completely capable revving to the red line on A and B roads without feeling like youre in a supersonic jet.

I was watching a video by SCD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CGUhVToPTk

rkanaga

287 posts

172 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
carspath said:
OP here , putting ( or more accurately NOT putting ) his money where his mouth is .

Spent the last 18 months thinking about what to substitute / run alongside my 147,000 mile , 27 year old MX5 Series 1 .

It had to have decent REAL WORLD performance ( with power to weight and torque to weight being useful measures) , look good , be reliable , and be narrow ( really important in my opinion )
But most of all it had to be engaging

My short-list was :

Another MX5 series 1
Elise
Exige
4C
2nd hand 540C / 570S

The McLarens were real considerations as they are such good value , great performers , have those doors and a carbon tub .
But rightly or wrongly , reports about their reliability were a worry

I also took onboard Thorney Motorsports MD's comment that 7 of the 9 key McLaren engineers that designed the 12C were ex-Lotus

A 2010 Chrome Orange Elise S3 with the 2ZZ-GE engine turned up at Bella nd Colvill exactly 2 months ago today .
I went down the next afternoon , and Jamie Matthews showed me around both this N/A car as wel las a S/C car

The S/C car was undoubtedly faster , but I felt that it gave you less time to enjoy revving the car through the gears before hitting the 60 or 70 mph limit .

The N/A car has less power and torque ( 189 bhp / 133 lb-ft ) AND compounds this by only achieving this at quite high rpms for a road car ( 7800 and 6800 respectively )
This is a marmite choice , as many people don't like this type of high rev power delivery .
In fact there are relatively few 2ZZ engined S3 Elises , as emissions regulations meant that Lotus had to change to the 2ZR cars soon after the introduction of the S3 model -- the 2ZR produced higher torque lower down the rev range , but its rev limit was significantly lower . You don't have to work it so hard , but equally you cannot work it as hard .

I felt that the 2ZZ N/A car would force me to work harder to get it moving and therefore be the more engaging -- and hence it was my choice .

The car is factory standard , but I have asked for 1 modification - Jim Valentine has put on a 6 inch 2bular backbox , and I have asked him to make it loud , loud , loud

I am picking it up tomorrow , and I don't know if my theoretical logic will stand up to the scrutiny of real world driving .

I hope that I will not be disappointed .

I hope to be able to actually use this Elise
Todays supercars , in my opinion , are too wide , need too high a speed before they engage , are too electronic , are too gadget-laden , and are too digital in their delivery .
They are also simply not as useable ( and this applies to any fastish car , not just supercars ) on today's camera-infested and traffic-clogged roads - something that was not such a restricting factor 20 years ago .

Will a relatively inexpensive , narrow , naturally aspirated manual car , driven by a low powered and low torqued engine which needs high rpm , in a light-weight body , with Toyota reliability fulfill the above mentioned criteria ?

Wish me luck


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:26


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:31


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:32
Good luck with the Elise, sounds very nice. I drive past B&C regularly and it's like sweets at a supermarket checkout for me!

Much as I also like the appeal of owning what was once a bedroom poster car, the reality is very different I'm sure.

One other way is what Chris Harris once aluded to in that you need a variety of cars to be enjoyed in their own right. Either serially or, if you have room, at once.

I settled on the latter option and currently drive an NSX (original manual non PAS), a Caterham and a BMW 650i. The NSX is a looker, and a piece of engineering art, the BMW is a comfy daily cruiser and the Caterham is just fun with a capital 'F'. For the capital and running costs I could probably run a reasonably modern supercar, but having the small fleet is ultimately much more entertaining.

You could construct any number of similar trios at various price points, eg:

Elise
Tesla model 3
Porsche 993

MX5
BMW 535d
Ferrari 355

Exige sport 350
Tesla model S
Murcielago

Where it all falls down is when supercars try to be too daily useable (?MP4-12c, new Honda NSX non GT3 Porsches?) or too extreme (488 pista?) as there are better ways of doing both IMO

etc, etc.

Perhaps I should start a new 'ultimate 3 car garage' thread! The rule would be one fun handing car, one comfy daily car and one piece of automotive 'art'

(BTW that F12 is stunning and would definitely fit into the 'art' category!)
Edited by rkanaga on Wednesday 4th March 12:27


Edited by rkanaga on Wednesday 4th March 12:31

PushedDover

532 posts

5 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
rkanaga said:
...............

One other way is what Chris Harris once lauded to in that you need a variety of cars to be enjoyed in their own right. Either serially or, if you have room, at once.
.......
I have been binging on the Chris Harris collecting cars podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-collecti...

Very amusing and way to while away flights / long drives.
He - and by majority his guests - are all saying the advent of the latest fastest thing, holds very little interest.
It is cars that are different, change the landscape and 'accessible' driving that appeals.


I agree.

jakesmith

6,298 posts

123 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
carspath said:
OP here , putting ( or more accurately NOT putting ) his money where his mouth is .

Spent the last 18 months thinking about what to substitute / run alongside my 147,000 mile , 27 year old MX5 Series 1 .

It had to have decent REAL WORLD performance ( with power to weight and torque to weight being useful measures) , look good , be reliable , and be narrow ( really important in my opinion )
But most of all it had to be engaging

My short-list was :

Another MX5 series 1
Elise
Exige
4C
2nd hand 540C / 570S

The McLarens were real considerations as they are such good value , great performers , have those doors and a carbon tub .
But rightly or wrongly , reports about their reliability were a worry

I also took onboard Thorney Motorsports MD's comment that 7 of the 9 key McLaren engineers that designed the 12C were ex-Lotus

A 2010 Chrome Orange Elise S3 with the 2ZZ-GE engine turned up at Bella nd Colvill exactly 2 months ago today .
I went down the next afternoon , and Jamie Matthews showed me around both this N/A car as wel las a S/C car

The S/C car was undoubtedly faster , but I felt that it gave you less time to enjoy revving the car through the gears before hitting the 60 or 70 mph limit .

The N/A car has less power and torque ( 189 bhp / 133 lb-ft ) AND compounds this by only achieving this at quite high rpms for a road car ( 7800 and 6800 respectively )
This is a marmite choice , as many people don't like this type of high rev power delivery .
In fact there are relatively few 2ZZ engined S3 Elises , as emissions regulations meant that Lotus had to change to the 2ZR cars soon after the introduction of the S3 model -- the 2ZR produced higher torque lower down the rev range , but its rev limit was significantly lower . You don't have to work it so hard , but equally you cannot work it as hard .

I felt that the 2ZZ N/A car would force me to work harder to get it moving and therefore be the more engaging -- and hence it was my choice .

The car is factory standard , but I have asked for 1 modification - Jim Valentine has put on a 6 inch 2bular backbox , and I have asked him to make it loud , loud , loud

I am picking it up tomorrow , and I don't know if my theoretical logic will stand up to the scrutiny of real world driving .

I hope that I will not be disappointed .

I hope to be able to actually use this Elise
Todays supercars , in my opinion , are too wide , need too high a speed before they engage , are too electronic , are too gadget-laden , and are too digital in their delivery .
They are also simply not as useable ( and this applies to any fastish car , not just supercars ) on today's camera-infested and traffic-clogged roads - something that was not such a restricting factor 20 years ago .

Will a relatively inexpensive , narrow , naturally aspirated manual car , driven by a low powered and low torqued engine which needs high rpm , in a light-weight body , with Toyota reliability fulfill the above mentioned criteria ?

Wish me luck


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:26


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:31


Edited by carspath on Tuesday 3rd March 23:32
You were considering a Mk1 Mazda MX5 or a McLaren for your next fun car? And didn't buy the McLaren due to reliability concerns? If I could afford the McLaren you wouldn't catch me running around in an MX5 WTF is that about. Underpowered, rusty, unsafe, just a crap car for someone who can't afford something better. I'm sure they are good for the price compared to other vehicles like a Mk1 Focus or something.

rat rod

93 posts

17 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
You were considering a Mk1 Mazda MX5 or a McLaren for your next fun car? And didn't buy the McLaren due to reliability concerns? If I could afford the McLaren you wouldn't catch me running around in an MX5 WTF is that about. Underpowered, rusty, unsafe, just a crap car for someone who can't afford something better. I'm sure they are good for the price compared to other vehicles like a Mk1 Focus or something.
Boy! you may well have started something here,talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons ! Out of my f430, Gallardo and Golf R i did a road trip in my l.h.d MX5 to Malaga not once but three times, yes a little slower cruising speeds but lots of fun once there, no worries of it getting stolen, holiday makers leaning/sitting on it while taking photo's of themselfs, leaving it in places i wouldn't have left the others parked ,a more relaxed time, no issues at all but if there was wouldn't have given me the same headaches as the others as any garage should have been able to fix it,

Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 4th March 17:54


Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 4th March 18:02


Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 4th March 18:05

jakesmith

6,298 posts

123 months

Wednesday 4th March
quotequote all
rat rod said:
jakesmith said:
You were considering a Mk1 Mazda MX5 or a McLaren for your next fun car? And didn't buy the McLaren due to reliability concerns? If I could afford the McLaren you wouldn't catch me running around in an MX5 WTF is that about. Underpowered, rusty, unsafe, just a crap car for someone who can't afford something better. I'm sure they are good for the price compared to other vehicles like a Mk1 Focus or something.
Boy! you may well have started something here,talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons !
What, on a supercar sub forum? Sorry but what a load of rubbish, as if anyone who has £150k on hand to buy a car is going to buy an MX5