Engine rebuild

Author
Discussion

crimbo

1,199 posts

165 months

Thursday 10th January
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So would a 5.2 work out a little cheaper for parts as its more audi parts and used in a range of cars?

Will there be any sort of warranty after the rebuild etc?

Ellb123

48 posts

16 months

Thursday 10th January
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Really interesting thread, thanks for sharing in such detail!

Im really shocked at the price different in some of the OEM Lambo parts, I was expecting expensive, but maybe not that expensive, but then some other items seem reasonable value! I wonder if the rods are perhaps uses on other cars/engines therefore cheaper?

Did you consider buying a "new" second hand engine instead? Im not sure how much an engine would be from say a crash damaged car. I understand the whole complete refresh for peace of mind on yours, but for time/cost, I just wondered if that would of been an easier route?

4321go

Original Poster:

367 posts

124 months

Thursday 10th January
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200Plus Club said:
Sweet baby jesus on the oe pistons lol.
Some substantial costs building when you think of course you'll have cleaning/machining/ balancing etc of the short motor then plus head work (assume new stem seals and a clean up minimum, possibly new valves if any wear?)
Then of course brand new oil and water pump is guess and all your timing chains and ancilliaries.
New nuts n bolts throughout, injectors perhaps flow tested and cleaned for safety?
Absolutely spot-on with all of your points! The oil pump gets rebuilt rather than replaced. The chains are getting replaced. The injectors will be flow-tested. Head work I’ll discuss when they’ve been removed and assessed, but I have the options and pricing for it all.

The post above was really more to show the options between OEM and aftermarket and our thoughts as to which way to go (some of those options being no-brainers!!)

4321go

Original Poster:

367 posts

124 months

Thursday 10th January
quotequote all
Ellb123 said:
Really interesting thread, thanks for sharing in such detail!

Im really shocked at the price different in some of the OEM Lambo parts, I was expecting expensive, but maybe not that expensive, but then some other items seem reasonable value! I wonder if the rods are perhaps uses on other cars/engines therefore cheaper?

Did you consider buying a "new" second hand engine instead? Im not sure how much an engine would be from say a crash damaged car. I understand the whole complete refresh for peace of mind on yours, but for time/cost, I just wondered if that would of been an easier route?
As to your first point, see my post at the foot of page 4

Meanwhile, second-hand engines go for between £16-20k, which will be about the cost of the rebuild. And you’re buying a pre-worn engine with no idea of what sort of life it’s had. This way, I’ll have an engine that’s (potentially) better than new!

Oh, and a new, undressed motor from Lambo is circa £30k

Ellb123

48 posts

16 months

Thursday 10th January
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4321go said:
Meanwhile, second-hand engines go for between £16-20k, which will be about the cost of the rebuild. And you’re buying a pre-worn engine with no idea of what sort of life it’s had. This way, I’ll have an engine that’s (potentially) better than new!
I thought this may be the reason, and probably the route that I would choose too if in the position.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, best of luck with it all and keep us updated! Pictures would be nice too!

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m4tti

4,129 posts

92 months

Thursday 10th January
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4321go said:
For the avoidance of doubt, those prices (with the exception of the individual prices of OEM piston and ring sets) are for a complete set for a V10 engine.

I’ll post photos and detail as we go along, but first Mr. Elder has to pull and strip the lump.

Over to you, Ricky.......
Very interesting stuff. I have a V10 and have done a high end rebuild of a dry sump TVR engine myself.

The prices don’t look too bad. Rebuilding a TVR speed six with all the best parts possible produced a parts bill around the 10k mark.

The only price standing out slightly high is the block sleeving. Does that include other machining activity in addition to the sleeving? Is there any line boring required.

For me, from a longevity and durability perspective sleeving is definitely the way to go.

Good to see your mileage though. At my rate of miles that should only take me another 70 - 80 years to get to.

200Plus Club

4,993 posts

215 months

Thursday 10th January
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For comparison and from shopping round recently I was quoted £10k from a couple of well known places for a good spec 4 cylinder Alfa 8 valve engine built and fitted, so £16-20k on a dry sumped high performance V10 is cracking value really from a known and trusted expert.

Matty3

90 posts

21 months

Thursday 10th January
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These are the threads that I look forward to updates on smile

Any chance of any progress/rebuild pictures?

Costs appear rather reasonable to me all things considered.

The difference will be rather noticeable once those escaped horses have been re-harnessed smile

Dr G

13,422 posts

179 months

Thursday 10th January
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4321go said:
I think that the problem is that the 5.0 litre engine is unique to Lambo. Audi chucked the 4.0 V8 from the RS6 (IIRC) at Sant Agata Bolognese and allowed then to get on with it. The resulting 5.0 was ONLY fitted to the pre-LP Gallardos.

Audi then took the engine back and developed it into the 5.2 litre engine that went into the subsequent RS6, Q7(?), R8 and LP-series Gallardo. Thus, the 5.0 parts supply is dictated by Lamborghini, the 5.2 by Audi. I think that’s probably why OEM rods look so reasonable?

Edited by 4321go on Wednesday 9th January 22:16
Amazing thread and really enjoying the updates; I can only contribute but a sniff of Audi development history.

To the best of my knowledge the Lamborghini 5.0 remains unique; no Audi uses this or a version of it.

The Audi 5.2 V10 is a relative of the 4.2 V8:

Audi internal study guide said:
The 5.2L V10 engine is based on the design of the 4.2L V8 engine with the addition of two cylinders. The V10 cylinder block, cylinder heads, camshaft drive, fuel system, and intake manifold concept were adapted from the V8 engine.
Whether Lamborghini's 5.0 is inspired by, engineered from, or in any way evolved from an Audi engine I don't know but anecdotally the answer is no.

The RS6 C6 generation 5.0 twin-turbo V10 is unique again and was only ever used in that car.

The nutty Q7 used a V12 diesel, itself an indirect Le Mans refugee.


The 5.2 did see service in the S6 (C6 generation) and S8 (D3 generation), although these variants were wet-sumped and lower-revving.

jakesmith

3,014 posts

108 months

Thursday 10th January
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If only you’d put 15p in a jar every time you drove a mile. Then you’d have the cash ready and waiting for the rebuild!

David_T

8 posts

17 months

Thursday 10th January
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As several have already expressed above, thanks to OP for so openly sharing your engine re-build information and to Ricky for providing the benefit of your knowledge and experience of these engines.

I hope I’m not going too off-track with the following but you may already have the answers.

From the above posts it seems that for the pre LP engine cars, some/several of the longer term owners are probably heading towards an engine re-build due to the deterioration of the car’s ageing and disintegrating catalytic converters. Having your car serviced at the Lamborghini dealer won’t help, as per the above although they may provide a very thorough service, they probably won’t be mentioning this. Having a relatively low mileage (say low 20Ks) compared to more day to day cars (4321go’s excluded!) and not being thrashed from cold, largely one driver and no track day useage seems to be of no relevance.

For the pre-LP cars, even the youngest aged about 2008 will have 11 year old cats if they are the original ones, earlier cars even older. Are there any obvious warning signs that the cats are failing, thus already causing additional bore wear, without dismantling the system? At low 20k mileage I’m not yet seeing high oil consumption.

For those owners who would have preferred to keep the car as near to standard as possible, their preference would be to leave everything (the cats) as they are. The advice from the experts seems to be to ‘de-cat’ the probably deteriorating original cats, if you are intending to hold onto the car for the next few years. I certainly don’t want to be facing the cost of a similar engine rebuild. From the earlier posts it seems that the options are: 1) bypassing the existing cats, I assume that the originals remain in place; 2) replacing them; or 3) removing the cats. For option 1), is that switchable for the MOT? Possibly this is the lowest cost option. For option 2) is there already a longer lasting replacement? For 3), removing the cats, how do you get the car through the MOT? A re-map will also be needed.
Personally I prefer not to have the blue flames and already have an Superleggera exhaust.

Any further advice would be appreciated.

200Plus Club

4,993 posts

215 months

Friday 11th January
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I would assume if you want it standard ish then getting an exhaust specialist to fit you brand new sports type cats would be the option at perhaps 8yrs or more age purely as a safety precaution would be good insurance.
Cats themselves are not that expensive in the run of things, it's getting yours out and new welded in that will be the initial cost.
I have seen sports cats on v band clamps that once fitted are easily swapped if access isn't too bad. I imagine they are a nightmare to get to on a v10 lambo or R8 and that Ricky would be well placed to advise.

David_T

8 posts

17 months

Friday 11th January
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Thanks for the PMs. I now understand that there isn't the space to bypass the cats, these are in fact replaced by straight through pipes. Then a re-map is required.