Chris Harris's Column -- Burst Bubble;Massive Dump;Bargains

[mike01606]

Hartley Jnr Lusso is Sold.....so not everyone is worried about depreciation

As a bottom feeder in the supercar market I'm not the slightest bit bothered about my car dropping to scrap value but I'm quite excited about what opportunities the next few years may bring. It's nice to see illiquid assets appreciate but we all know it's funny money unless you are cashing in.
It's the buyers who got caught up in the hype and have real, important money tied up in their cars that may struggle.

I also think that once people realise it's not as bad as some are painting it and we get our latest GE out of the way*, the UK market will settle very quickly. I actually go out at weekends and everywhere is really busy...…

This coming Saturday AM will add 0.1% to GDP growth ..…. well in England anyway

• as long a Corbyn/McDonnell get nowhere near Downing street.

[Davey S2]

AmoCS said:

Davey S2 said:

Someone I follow on Twitter has just picked up a very nice, low miles 675 LT in the nice Nardo grey colour for sub £200K.

Wasn't long ago these were well north of £300K

Quite a few on AT sub £200k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Bloody hell. Lovely.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

If you actually want to drive and use a car properly then this is real value compared against a 458 Speciale which is going to be at least £100K more.

[Larry5.2]

mike01606 said:

Hartley Jnr Lusso is Sold.....so not everyone is worried about depreciation

As a bottom feeder in the supercar market I'm not the slightest bit bothered about my car dropping to scrap value but I'm quite excited about what opportunities the next few years may bring. It's nice to see illiquid assets appreciate but we all know it's funny money unless you are cashing in.
It's the buyers who got caught up in the hype and have real, important money tied up in their cars that may struggle.

I also think that once people realise it's not as bad as some are painting it and we get our latest GE out of the way*, the UK market will settle very quickly. I actually go out at weekends and everywhere is really busy...…

This coming Saturday AM will add 0.1% to GDP growth ..…. well in England anyway

• as long a Corbyn/McDonnell get nowhere near Downing street.

Amazing how all brexiteers live on hope and optimism... there is only one way the market will sort itself out and that is without the b-word

[MDL111]

MDL111 said:

Candellara said:

MDL111 said:

this looks really good and as I suspected when they were launched, the clean design is ageing really well.
this one has steel brakes too, which I would prefer ... mmmhhh need to look at the classifieds again

I am very tempted to buy one in the UK before Brexit, so I can export it to Germany.
I am not too worried about the running costs, as as best as I can tell they are not different from a Ferrari (at least if you are stuck with main dealers anyway, which I am due to warranty)

They're starting to look like value but these have dropped over £30k in the last year so I can see them being sub £50k over the next year or so. There's lots and lots to choose from.

just realised (i) that they dropped quite substantially in Germany since I last checked (now cars below 100k Euros) and (ii) sterling is actually higher than I thought.

I fully expect them to be sub 50k in the not too distant future - but I expect all cars to shed quite a lot of value over the next 12-24 months, so just need to be happy with the basis I own the car at (and not have to sell it...)

out of interest (and forgive my complete lack of technical knowledge on this), but could you add a mechanical diff and proper passive suspension to a 12C or is that impossible? I like the engine and the carbon tub, but would want to make it a lot less complicated and a lot more track focused. what are their track/race cars running?

edit: also I have my FF if I want to be cosseted - softer than that and I'd feel like I am floating ...

[rich12]

Cars i've been following for quite a while now are;
488 Spider
Aventador S
McLaren 720S

Some cars have been for sale 6 months plus (which isn't too unusual) but only recently have they started really bringing down the prices. Most are delivery miles but still no bites.

I enquired about this car about a year ago when it was up for £300k and they wouldn't budge.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Same with this dodgy lot. Was £300k a year ago and have just reduced it to £280k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This 488 was up for £240k and has slowly been reduced to £225k (I love this one)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This 488 has slipped my radar so no idea how much it was originally but has just come up under the blue one
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This Portofino was just shy of £200k in March
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...


Makes me very nervous buying/upgrading at the moment.

[isaldiri]

MDL111 said:

hunter 66 said:

One other ominous factor is the EV car situation , as soon these will be the norm and even getting gas may become as issue . Sure these cars are not dailies but .

agree, once I am no longer allowed to keep my car in the city centre it will become a right pain and I'll probably just buy a race car and keep it at a track somewhere - I think race cars might be the ones that will appreciate the moste / lose the least value over the next decade / decade and a half

I think one might have to look at what the power grid is capable of before thinking that electric is going to be the norm......

[isaldiri]

MDL111 said:

out of interest (and forgive my complete lack of technical knowledge on this), but could you add a mechanical diff and proper passive suspension to a 12C or is that impossible? I like the engine and the carbon tub, but would want to make it a lot less complicated and a lot more track focused. what are their track/race cars running?

The Mclaren GT3 racing cars are running ohlins ttx, automated single clutch gearbox and a mechanical limited slip diff. All things are possible I suppose with sufficient resources/cash but you would have to be loony to try to add those to replace the existing bits in the road car as you would need a huge amount of road tuning to make it work anywhere near as well as it does....

[Drl22]

rich12 said:

Cars i've been following for quite a while now are;
488 Spider
Aventador S
McLaren 720S

Some cars have been for sale 6 months plus (which isn't too unusual) but only recently have they started really bringing down the prices. Most are delivery miles but still no bites.

I enquired about this car about a year ago when it was up for £300k and they wouldn't budge.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Same with this dodgy lot. Was £300k a year ago and have just reduced it to £280k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This 488 was up for £240k and has slowly been reduced to £225k (I love this one)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This 488 has slipped my radar so no idea how much it was originally but has just come up under the blue one
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This Portofino was just shy of £200k in March
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...


Makes me very nervous buying/upgrading at the moment.

One way to look at it is you’ll get a better price right now with dealers keen to sell and whatever you currently have that you would trade in will be losing money regardless in the mean time. Look at it that way and you’re only losing a dealer margin which you’d lose anyway. The discounts available now would cover that too. If you’re in the market already then you’re already going to lose money, may as well trade for what you want.

[RSbandit]

Drl22 said:

One way to look at it is you’ll get a better price right now with dealers keen to sell and whatever you currently have that you would trade in will be losing money regardless in the mean time. Look at it that way and you’re only losing a dealer margin which you’d lose anyway. The discounts available now would cover that too. If you’re in the market already then you’re already going to lose money, may as well trade for what you want.

Amazing how they can hold onto these cars for so long are they all on SOR? 10% reduction in ask ina yr isn't much imo given the mkt

[Drl22]

RSbandit said:

Amazing how they can hold onto these cars for so long are they all on SOR? 10% reduction in ask ina yr isn't much imo given the mkt

Well I don’t think they want to be holding on to them. A lot must be on SOR I can’t see dealers committing to buy much stock in right now.

[rich12]

Drl22 said:

Well I don’t think they want to be holding on to them. A lot must be on SOR I can’t see dealers committing to buy much stock in right now.

I was speaking to a chap at my local McLaren dealer and he said that they are being so choosy of what they take in as px now.
If a McLaren 720s came in and it was a luxury, they wouldn't even bid on it.
Went to collect my 570s and they had a lovely grey 720s performance in stock and just off the bat said he'd take £10k less for it than advertised so God knows what they would actually be willing to reduce it by if I was serious.

[cgt2]

RSbandit said:

Amazing how they can hold onto these cars for so long are they all on SOR? 10% reduction in ask ina yr isn't much imo given the mkt

You can check on companies house. A lot of these outfits have barely a few thousand on their balance sheet...

[Wilmslowboy]

MDL111 said:

out of interest (and forgive my complete lack of technical knowledge on this), but could you add a mechanical diff and proper passive suspension to a 12C or is that impossible? I like the engine and the carbon tub, but would want to make it a lot less complicated and a lot more track focused. what are their track/race cars running?

edit: also I have my FF if I want to be cosseted - softer than that and I'd feel like I am floating ...

Yes,to the suspension, but easier to start with a 570s and tune-up (remap) up to 12c power

[isaldiri]

Wilmslowboy said:

Yes,to the suspension, but easier to start with a 570s and tune-up (remap) up to 12c power

I seriously always wonder at how people, especially prior owners as I believe you are, actually suggest adding power to a Mclaren as the first thing to do. They as a whole already have a considerable excess of power to grip whether 540 or Senna. The 570 especially so given the narower tyres and non existent aero at speed compared to the 650. Reducing the power to grip by adding more grip rather than power would result in a better car - not imo doing the opposite.

[Wilmslowboy]

isaldiri said:

I seriously always wonder at how people, especially prior owners as I believe you are, actually suggest adding power to a Mclaren as the first thing to do. They as a whole already have a considerable excess of power to grip whether 540 or Senna. The 570 especially so given the narower tyres and non existent aero at speed compared to the 650. Reducing the power to grip by adding more grip rather than power would result in a better car - not imo doing the opposite.

Yep, no need to up the power, I meant to suggest that to get to a 12c level performance with non-actve suspension, it might be easier to start with a 570s.

[LotusJas]

Agree that adding power to a McLaren is akin to sticking a spear on the tip of a missile.

Removing the active suspension of a super series car (12C, 650S etc) is also sacrilege, as you would be removing one of its best features.

If someone really wants passive suspension on a McLaren, buy a 600LT. Those are fantastic passive suspension cars.

[footsoldier]

Larry5.2 said:

Amazing how all brexiteers live on hope and optimism... there is only one way the market will sort itself out and that is without the b-word

There is no General Election scenario, other than a Lib Dem majority, which will give stability in next 2 years. Base case is Conservative win, leave with deal, start arguing about future relationship, threaten no-deal....
UK Politics won’t help the car market, and world is slowing down while we’re distracted.

[lambo666]

Rich12, with regards to the Aventador S, Please disregard the black one at Premier GT as I have just bought it!
And was just over 50k less than the black one you linked to above.
1 owner car and just over 1k miles, Ex Peter Saywell car (well known collector with over 40 cars (zonda, koeneggseigg etc)
I looked at a few and this one felt right with reasonable part ex price given on my Gallardo Performante.
Have bitten the bullet now and hope they dont fall much further!
Good luck with your search, will add pics and start my own thread hopefully on Sunday after collection on Saturday.
From my recollection the cheapest Aventador S anywhere 6 months ago was 269k.

[rich12]

lambo666 said:

Rich12, with regards to the Aventador S, Please disregard the black one at Premier GT as I have just bought it!
And was just over 50k less than the black one you linked to above.
1 owner car and just over 1k miles, Ex Peter Saywell car (well known collector with over 40 cars (zonda, koeneggseigg etc)
I looked at a few and this one felt right with reasonable part ex price given on my Gallardo Performante.
Have bitten the bullet now and hope they dont fall much further!
Good luck with your search, will add pics and start my own thread hopefully on Sunday after collection on Saturday.
From my recollection the cheapest Aventador S anywhere 6 months ago was 269k.

When you say you've just bought it but then say you bought one from a different dealer, what do you mean?

[lambo666]

Thought my post was clear, simply the black one at Premier Gt is now mine so no longer for sale if you are in the market for one.
The black one you posted a link to earlier is still for sale (as is probably overpriced by 35k in the current market).