Is a McLaren 570s A Supercar?

Is a McLaren 570s A Supercar?

Author
Discussion

R8Steve

3,855 posts

116 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Turbo cab said:
Sounds about right.

I'm in mixed minds over the R8 performance parts edition and it's supercar status however, the old V8 would be obliterated by most modern hot hatches.
So would a testarossa, 355, countach, even a Diablo would get out-accelerated by some hot hatches. Does that mean they're not supercars?

What status bracket does the 'Turbo cab' fit in to?

The full 'supercar' thing is a ridiculous argument that gets played out on here time and time again.

Turbo cab

1,251 posts

173 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Turbo cab said:
Sounds about right.

I'm in mixed minds over the R8 performance parts edition and it's supercar status however, the old V8 would be obliterated by most modern hot hatches.
R8Steve said:
So would a testarossa, 355, countach, even a Diablo would get out-accelerated by some hot hatches. Does that mean they're not supercars?
Ahh you see these have now attained classic status but are "supercars" all the same so not really valid to this argument.

R8Steve said:
What status bracket does the 'Turbo cab' fit in to?
General consensus is that its not however, the current Perf Spyder and 488 Spyder most definitely are - My Urus is questionable though but ive never been one for status and buying a car based upon that hence the old handle and profile pic,
R8Steve said:
The full 'supercar' thing is a ridiculous argument that gets played out on here time and time again.
I suppose everyone is entitled to there opinion but Its mainly owners of certain cars that feel the need to consonantly bleet on about it to ascertain their "status bracket" as you put it.

The Surveyor

6,551 posts

178 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Adz man said:
How can it not be a Supercar?
Only because McLaren themselves were keen to present the 570s as a sports car. They pitched them in their 'sports' series with a view to them being a more affordable and exceptionally quick sports car in the same way Porsche do with the 911. According to the guys and girls who make them, the 570s is a sports car, and the 720s is a supercar.

Personally I think it's a 'junior supercar' scratchchin



Tony-K

56 posts

1 month

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
LotusJas said:
(R8, no)
How so?

I don’t really care how others classify may cars, they weren’t bought to talk about, but a mid-engined V10 putting out more than 109bhp/litre from a normally aspirated engine feels subjectively like a supercar to me.

What are your criteria for thinking otherwise, if you don’t mind me asking?

Nano2nd

3,098 posts

197 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Tony-K said:
How so?

I don’t really care how others classify may cars, they weren’t bought to talk about, but a mid-engined V10 putting out more than 109bhp/litre from a normally aspirated engine feels subjectively like a supercar to me.

What are your criteria for thinking otherwise, if you don’t mind me asking?
its mostly just badge snobbery
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johnwilliams77

5,358 posts

44 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Certainly breaks down enough to be a supercar.

Pioneer

780 posts

72 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
Only because McLaren themselves were keen to present the 570s as a sports car. They pitched them in their 'sports' series with a view to them being a more affordable and exceptionally quick sports car in the same way Porsche do with the 911. According to the guys and girls who make them, the 570s is a sports car, and the 720s is a supercar.

Personally I think it's a 'junior supercar' scratchchin
I agree. Same as Gallardo, F430 etc. R8 is almost there too but not quite

murphyaj

187 posts

16 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Godwin's Law
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"

Godwin's lesser known 2nd Law
"As an online supercar discussion grows longer, the probability of it turning into an argument on whether the R8 is a supercar approaches 1"

LotusJas

740 posts

172 months

Tuesday 7th May
quotequote all
Tony-K said:
How so?

I don’t really care how others classify may cars, they weren’t bought to talk about, but a mid-engined V10 putting out more than 109bhp/litre from a normally aspirated engine feels subjectively like a supercar to me.

What are your criteria for thinking otherwise, if you don’t mind me asking?
A Supercar is more than just a measure of performance. R8 fails on many of those criteria. Rarity, desirability, badge, and the acid test: bedroom poster material.


I'd also say enough people hold that opinion for it to be a fair conclusion that the R8 is definitely no supercar. Nor btw is a 911, except a handful of the rare special models e.g. GT2 RS. So I'm not singling out the R8.


Equally by any definition, back on topic, the 570S is 100% a supercar.

up_shift

153 posts

48 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
I never understand the 'definitiion' of 'supercar' - it seems to change constantly and its a bit ridiculous when you think about it, given that some of the criteria can bend an others can't..

To me, it has always been about a great sounding two door car, that is somewhat exotic. I.E. with a superior top speed / power figure, sub-par 0-60 time and the sort of thing you'd find in a 'top supercars' style book with a relatively significant price tag attached. The sort of thing that sacrifices practicality (read: legroom, bootspace, fuel economy, tyre/maintenance costs/intervals) for performance and aesthetics..

To me that includes the likes of V8 Vantages, 360's GTRs and the like.

But back to the 570, I think you've got to try quite hard to suggest it isn't firmly in supercar territory..

Edited by up_shift on Wednesday 8th May 01:24

Nano2nd

3,098 posts

197 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
LotusJas said:
A Supercar is more than just a measure of performance. R8 fails on many of those criteria. Rarity, desirability, badge, and the acid test: bedroom poster material.
here we go again, so:

Rarity, they are pretty rare by all accounts, Ferrari make what 7000 cars a year on roughly 3 models? R8 averages between 2-3000 sales per year? sounds about the same to me, its certainly not exponentially more common.

Desirability, i've you've ever been out and about in a R8 you'll know just how desirable they are, IME more-so that a Ferrari, especially with the Ladyz wink

Badge - like i said Badge snobbery, remind me whatt other supercar manufacturers Audi's parent group own? wink oh and how many Le Mans races did Audi win again, before anyone talks about heritage biggrin

Bedroom poster material - plenty of R8 posters available if you want one, really this is just an extension of the Desirability category.

i also just did a quick Google and Whatcar, Autocar, Autoexpress, Carwow and Evo Magazine all refer to the R8 as a "supercar"

The Surveyor

6,551 posts

178 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
LotusJas said:
A Supercar is more than just a measure of performance. R8 fails on many of those criteria. Rarity, desirability, badge, and the acid test: bedroom poster material.
here we go again, so:

Rarity, they are pretty rare by all accounts, Ferrari make what 7000 cars a year on roughly 3 models? R8 averages between 2-3000 sales per year? sounds about the same to me, its certainly not exponentially more common.

Desirability, i've you've ever been out and about in a R8 you'll know just how desirable they are, IME more-so that a Ferrari, especially with the Ladyz wink

Badge - like i said Badge snobbery, remind me whatt other supercar manufacturers Audi's parent group own? wink oh and how many Le Mans races did Audi win again, before anyone talks about heritage biggrin

Bedroom poster material - plenty of R8 posters available if you want one, really this is just an extension of the Desirability category.

i also just did a quick Google and Whatcar, Autocar, Autoexpress, Carwow and Evo Magazine all refer to the R8 as a "supercar"
Badge snobbery is a complete none-starter. The dullest blue-collar car manufacturer Ford produces the GT (& GT40) which are total supercars in every way.

The problem for the R8 is that it is designed with practicality in mind, it's a daily-driver, it's usable everyday, its the sensible 'safe' choice in the same way that a 911 or Nissan GT-R is. Safe, sensible, practical are just not terms to be applied to anything reporting to be a supercar IMHO.

Nano2nd

3,098 posts

197 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
The dullest blue-collar car manufacturer Ford produces the GT (& GT40) which are total supercars in every way.
so what your saying is the badge has no impact on whether a car can or can't be a supercar? which is exactly my point, people saying an R8 isn't a supercar because its got an Audi badge is complete horse ****


The Surveyor said:
The problem for the R8 is that it is designed with practicality in mind, it's a daily-driver, it's usable everyday, its the sensible 'safe' choice in the same way that a 911 or Nissan GT-R is. Safe, sensible, practical are just not terms to be applied to anything reporting to be a supercar IMHO.
that's a bit of a stretch isn't it, yes its very usable, mainly due to good engineering and comfort (doesn't McLaren purportedly have the excellent ride quality and comfort?) Practicality was not on the top of the priority list when they designed the R8 i'm sure, the bootspace is a joke and there very little interior space, its wide, its low, its thirsty, its expensive to run and expensive to own... both the cars you listed are a completely different ownership proposition - both have 4 seats for a start! There are plenty of people who use their Ferraris and McLarens everyday, does that make them less of a supercar? You probably wouldn't drive a Caterham or Exige everyday, it doesn't mean they are supercars because they weren't designed to usable everyday (appreciate there are some hardcore people that do DD them wink )

The Surveyor

6,551 posts

178 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
The Surveyor said:
The dullest blue-collar car manufacturer Ford produces the GT (& GT40) which are total supercars in every way.
so what your saying is the badge has no impact on whether a car can or can't be a supercar? which is exactly my point, people saying an R8 isn't a supercar because its got an Audi badge is complete horse ****
No, what I'm saying is that it isn't 'badge snobbery', it's because the R8 is pitched with the same brand values as every other Audi. For all the strengths that those 4 rings bring, it also weakens its 'specialness' IMHO. The R8 looks like a TT and essentially shares the same design language as every other Audi, the problem with the Audi badge on the R8 is that it confirms its place in a rather dull line up.

Nano2nd said:
The Surveyor said:
The problem for the R8 is that it is designed with practicality in mind, it's a daily-driver, it's usable everyday, its the sensible 'safe' choice in the same way that a 911 or Nissan GT-R is. Safe, sensible, practical are just not terms to be applied to anything reporting to be a supercar IMHO.
that's a bit of a stretch isn't it, yes its very usable, mainly due to good engineering and comfort (doesn't McLaren purportedly have the excellent ride quality and comfort?) Practicality was not on the top of the priority list when they designed the R8 i'm sure, the bootspace is a joke and there very little interior space, its wide, its low, its thirsty, its expensive to run and expensive to own... both the cars you listed are a completely different ownership proposition - both have 4 seats for a start! There are plenty of people who use their Ferraris and McLarens everyday, does that make them less of a supercar? You probably wouldn't drive a Caterham or Exige everyday, it doesn't mean they are supercars because they weren't designed to usable everyday (appreciate there are some hardcore people that do DD them wink )
The super-series 720s does have very special suspension and is very much pitched as a supercar, the 570s has very well designed conventional suspension which indeed gives it amazing ride, and is pitched as a sports-car by McLaren albeit for me it's close to the 'supercar' line. As for the comparison between the R8 and the 911 / GT-R, they really are much closer in market sector than you think. You can add the Mercedes GT and the V8 Jaguar F Type to the same list, all very decent sports cars, just not 'supercars' IMHO



Nano2nd

3,098 posts

197 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
The R8 looks like a TT
rolleyes

The Surveyor

6,551 posts

178 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
The Surveyor said:
The R8 looks like a TT
rolleyes
The point being that they are certainly similar enough to be associated with the 'Audi' brand values which is both a blessing and curse for the R8 IMHO.

Its part of the argument which confirms supercar status for the Huracan, but not the R8. Essentially the same car, but one is seen as exciting, dangerous, decadent and driven by playboys, the other is seen as safe, reliable, sensible and driven by the playboys solicitor. Rightly or wrongly, the difference in perception being the brand values of the badge on the nose.

av185

8,148 posts

68 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
Some 911s are sports cars.

Some 911s are supercars.

Equally some Mclarens are sports cars.

And some Mclarens are supercars.

The 570S is a sports car.

As is the R8 btw.

Gameface

8,416 posts

18 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
oo7ml said:
Gameface said:
oo7ml said:
Hi,

As per title, is the 570s a supercar?

I would consider it to be!
You must be bored.
No, just trying to help a friend decide on which car to buy... however you my friend must be very bored.
The amount of threads you start bores me.

And your imaginary friend is going to base a 6 figure purchase on the back of what a bunch of complete strangers say on an internet forum he's not even part of?

Utter bks.

The Surveyor

6,551 posts

178 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
av185 said:
Some 911s are sports cars.

Some 911s are supercars.

Equally some Mclarens are sports cars.

And some Mclarens are supercars.

The 570S is a sports car.

As is the R8 btw.
I nearly agree with all that, although I am struggling to agree that any 911 variant falls into my perception of 'supercar'. The Carrera GT and 959 are supercar Porsches, but even the likes of the GT2 RS, GT3 RS and Turbo S are still very much sports cars in concept IMHO. Very good, high spec and bonkers fast, but still a sports car due largely to the shared silhouette and lineage with the Carrera 2 etc.

davek_964

5,464 posts

116 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
up_shift said:
I never understand the 'definitiion' of 'supercar' - it seems to change constantly and its a bit ridiculous when you think about it, given that some of the criteria can bend an others can't..

To me, it has always been about a great sounding two door car, that is somewhat exotic. I.E. with a superior top speed / power figure, sub-par 0-60 time and the sort of thing you'd find in a 'top supercars' style book with a relatively significant price tag attached. The sort of thing that sacrifices practicality (read: legroom, bootspace, fuel economy, tyre/maintenance costs/intervals) for performance and aesthetics..

To me that includes the likes of V8 Vantages, 360's GTRs and the like.

But back to the 570, I think you've got to try quite hard to suggest it isn't firmly in supercar territory..

Edited by up_shift on Wednesday 8th May 01:24
I can understand the argument regarding R8s - from a purely technical perspective the answer is no doubt yes. But I agree with some earlier posters - a "supercar" is about more than that - and a big part of it may indeed be "badge snobbery" - but that doesn't change the fact that your average man in the street would look at a Ferrari / McLaren / Lambo and think "supercar" but less so an R8 - regardless of how good the Audi is.

On the other hand - in no world is a V8 Vantage a supercar!

(570 is though, definitely).