The truth in the manual vs robotised manual obsession ?

The truth in the manual vs robotised manual obsession ?

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Discussion

MalcQV

227 posts

179 months

Thursday 29th August
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I've owned three manual Ferraris, have new Merc ( just a CLA 200) with a DCT and have driven an eGear Gallardo.

The Gallardo was very nice, I liked the slightly clunk as it changed (I could have improved that with time) and rather liked it.
I have a 360 manual but honestly I wanted an F1. I love the way it feels but I have noted many more issues with them compared to a manual. Also my garage is tiny and getting the car in and out slipping the clutch is hard enough and I feel F1 might have been much more difficult.

I don't toe and heel but rather roll my foot right to left. I started doing this in an Alfa Spider, do it in my Z3 and now the 360. I would probably be slower on a track but love the way it sounds and feels if I get it right. I'm new to it so have a way to go.

DCT I do like and think in a 458 I'd love it.

So for preference I think with the limited time I had in the Gallardo the feel of sequential/robotised is my preference followed by manual and then DCT. However I really think it depends on the car.

I don't like slush box planetary torque converter boxes I've driven, not at all.

LotusJas

833 posts

176 months

Thursday 29th August
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I used to really like manuals but now far prefer a good modern dual clutch auto box.

The McLaren gearbox is extremely good, and I recall the 911 PDK, 488 and Huracan Performante were also good when I tried those.

ghost83

3,191 posts

135 months

Thursday 29th August
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I drove a Gallardo 6spd manual a few year back and everything about it was sublime

mwstewart

5,538 posts

133 months

Saturday 31st August
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I owned a manual F430 and a 2008 F1 (120ms shifts compared with the pre-2008 160ms shifts).

I found the standard F1 system to be outdated - for me it ruined the car. The manual was more engaging, rewarding, and overall more fun to use, and I could shift nearly as fast as the F1 system could.

For me the Scuderia Superfast 2 (60ms) system is the only F1 alternative to the manual 'box but I think that the manual still has it for road driving simply because it offers more enjoyment more of the time.

Another poster is along the same lines of thinking as I am: they were a point-in-time solution that was basically a transition solution to more advanced engineering that better met the requirements. They were a novelty at the time but now most feel out of date in a bad way.

franki68

6,873 posts

166 months

Sunday 1st September
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I drove manuals for 30 years ,sometimes going to great lengths to secure a manual when few were available .
I recently went Dsg and don’t miss having a manual in any way shape or form .
There is frankly a lot of crap written about this stuff ,just buy the box you enjoy and drive it .
The constant need to belittle dsg by those who perceive themselves as true drivers is tedious and the sign of a dhead .

Gunso

957 posts

195 months

Monday 2nd September
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I find DSG/PDK gearboxes hugely frustrating. On the move they are fine. But pulling away from a t-junction, parking, doing a three point turn is a hugely embarrassing experience for me. I can't control the car the way I can a manual.

On the move I'm happy with a DSG/PDK but the frustration I feel at low speed outweighs the benefits on the move.

But I am one of those people who will come off the brakes coming to a standstill to avoid that dip/nod.

Raygun

2,726 posts

65 months

Monday 2nd September
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Regarding Ferrari F430's and probably applies to a few other cars as well, a manual car is rarer and the clutch life can last longer than a F1 set-up in most cases, other than that imho the driving experience are about the same.

bertie

8,051 posts

229 months

Tuesday 3rd September
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Gunso said:
I find DSG/PDK gearboxes hugely frustrating. On the move they are fine. But pulling away from a t-junction, parking, doing a three point turn is a hugely embarrassing experience for me. I can't control the car the way I can a manual.

On the move I'm happy with a DSG/PDK but the frustration I feel at low speed outweighs the benefits on the move.

But I am one of those people who will come off the brakes coming to a standstill to avoid that dip/nod.
If you find DCTs awkward at low speed, you ought to try a robotised manual!

willy wombat

370 posts

93 months

Wednesday 4th September
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Been out today for a drive in my 599 with its "robotised manual" gearbox and I'd forgotten what a delight it is to drive (most of my Ferrari mileage is in my 458 with dsg box). I have to agree with the poster above who said that a load of c**p is written about this stuff. Drive what you like and what suits you.

Kyodo

582 posts

69 months

Thursday 5th September
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willy wombat said:
Been out today for a drive in my 599 with its "robotised manual" gearbox and I'd forgotten what a delight it is to drive (most of my Ferrari mileage is in my 458 with dsg box). I have to agree with the poster above who said that a load of c**p is written about this stuff. Drive what you like and what suits you.
Absolutely agree with this. We've a 360 F1 with a Challenge Stradale TCU and out in the wild it's utterly sublime. It's still a pretty raw experience!

thecook101

634 posts

60 months

Thursday 5th September
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Kyodo said:
willy wombat said:
Been out today for a drive in my 599 with its "robotised manual" gearbox and I'd forgotten what a delight it is to drive (most of my Ferrari mileage is in my 458 with dsg box). I have to agree with the poster above who said that a load of c**p is written about this stuff. Drive what you like and what suits you.
Absolutely agree with this. We've a 360 F1 with a Challenge Stradale TCU and out in the wild it's utterly sublime. It's still a pretty raw experience!
+1 Totally depends on what you're looking for. If fast and seamless is right for that moment then it's hard to beat DSG, but I've never been anything but thrilled with the rawness of the F1 box in my F430, and likewise the non-syncromesh double declutching experience when out in my 1930 Rolls. To say one is better than the other in any context other than personal preference ignores the joys of variety, time and place.

Kyodo

582 posts

69 months

Thursday 5th September
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thecook101 said:
+1 Totally depends on what you're looking for. If fast and seamless is right for that moment then it's hard to beat DSG, but I've never been anything but thrilled with the rawness of the F1 box in my F430, and likewise the non-syncromesh double declutching experience when out in my 1930 Rolls. To say one is better than the other in any context other than personal preference ignores the joys of variety, time and place.
Exactly, all good for different reasons smile

Superleg48

699 posts

78 months

Thursday 5th September
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I drove 171 miles in a DSG equipped car to collect my eGear equipped car, which I then drove back. One was a smooth, cosseted, and surgically efficient experience, the other was raw, alive, neck snapping and at times brutal experience. I preferred the journey home. Way more fun. Just my opinion.

Larry5.2

385 posts

53 months

Friday 6th September
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Superleg48 said:
I drove 171 miles in a DSG equipped car to collect my eGear equipped car, which I then drove back. One was a smooth, cosseted, and surgically efficient experience, the other was raw, alive, neck snapping and at times brutal experience. I preferred the journey home. Way more fun. Just my opinion.
^
Hence my point about the definition of "better" in another thread...

JuniorD

6,475 posts

168 months

Wednesday 11th September
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I don't what type of gearbox he's got, but most mornings I encounter a guy in a modern 911 pulling away from a junction in my village onto the dual carriageway. As he accelerates hard into the distance you can hear the almost seamless sequence gear changes by the changing engine note and I have to say it sounds absolutely wănk.

IMO in a supercar gear changes should sound like the ones in the intro to Cannonball Run....

bertie

8,051 posts

229 months

Wednesday 11th September
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JuniorD said:
I don't what type of gearbox he's got, but most mornings I encounter a guy in a modern 911 pulling away from a junction in my village onto the dual carriageway. As he accelerates hard into the distance you can hear the almost seamless sequence gear changes by the changing engine note and I have to say it sounds absolutely w?nk.

IMO in a supercar gear changes should sound like the ones in the intro to Cannonball Run....
It's a PDK (aka a dual clutch box), you may not like the sound, but they're bloody good.

Order66

6,061 posts

194 months

Wednesday 11th September
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franki68 said:
The constant need to belittle dsg by those who perceive themselves as true drivers is tedious and the sign of a dhead .
They also reveal themselves to be world-class bullstters by talking about such bks as heel/toeing in cars that have pedal setups that would never allow heel toe - this means almost 100% of road-going "supercars". If someone in a 430 tells you they've bought a manual because they like to heel/toe then they are either a liar or have fking clownshoes!

Larry5.2

385 posts

53 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Order66 said:
They also reveal themselves to be world-class bullstters by talking about such bks as heel/toeing in cars that have pedal setups that would never allow heel toe - this means almost 100% of road-going "supercars". If someone in a 430 tells you they've bought a manual because they like to heel/toe then they are either a liar or have fking clownshoes!
Really? I may be a d***head but I know of at least 3 cars where you (sorry, I) can heel and toe. On the Gallardo I had to adjust the brake-pedal height with the OEM adjuster at the top of the pedal box. On the 360 and Murci, they were fine out the box.