Discussion
PompeyReece said:
No it's not corrosion.
Essentially there have been several reports, all as far as I can tell unverified or fact checked, where frames have cracked under normal driving conditions writing off the car.
Worse case buyers have walked away, others (like me) don't believe it's a common enough issue to be concerned about.
I believe I saw Ricky of REPerformance in Swindon say he's seen the frame cracking issue three times in his career and in all three cases it involved cars which had been in a collision.
Really it's down to your attitude towards risk - I'm not bothered, others would be. However the frame was strengthened in models after 2010 I believe so again, make of that what you will.
yes I know that the odd thing can happen but I don't mind risk , its a 2nd hand car after all , you just have to try to get as much right as you can , if you worry about everything you have to buy a new car ….. not got £100 k sitting about for an ornament up my drive Essentially there have been several reports, all as far as I can tell unverified or fact checked, where frames have cracked under normal driving conditions writing off the car.
Worse case buyers have walked away, others (like me) don't believe it's a common enough issue to be concerned about.
I believe I saw Ricky of REPerformance in Swindon say he's seen the frame cracking issue three times in his career and in all three cases it involved cars which had been in a collision.
Really it's down to your attitude towards risk - I'm not bothered, others would be. However the frame was strengthened in models after 2010 I believe so again, make of that what you will.
Edited by PompeyReece on Wednesday 27th November 14:42
PompeyReece said:
Also another point - if you're going for a £30k car, be careful. These sit at the lowest end of the R8 price spectrum and are likely to be priced at that for good reason.
A decent lowish V8 will be £35k-£40k, V10 £50k upwards.
normally I always buy my spare car this time of year , most people let them go a bit cheaper & seen some nice ones about for £32 with 40 on clock , just trying to get a decent one , I am not in rush..if I cant get one I may get a gtr as they are same money & lovely drive ….A decent lowish V8 will be £35k-£40k, V10 £50k upwards.
ian-163jt said:
Raven Flyer said:
For £500 I would get your local Audi R8 centre to do it. They will know R8s much better than an RAC Franchise holder and will know exactly what to look for.
so are there audi R8 centres ? what are they in a local branch just have a guy who knows r8 ?ian-163jt said:
the trouble is getting the right colour/ spec / price is hard , just because its from a dealer don't make it good , just because its private don't make it bad , its just a matter of trying to get best car you can .
Agreed, the best car I saw (and bought) was privately owned.ian-163jt said:
yes I know that the odd thing can happen but I don't mind risk , its a 2nd hand car after all , you just have to try to get as much right as you can , if you worry about everything you have to buy a new car ….. not got £100 k sitting about for an ornament up my drive
How much does it cost to repair a cracked one?hyphen said:
How much does it cost to repair a cracked one?
I don’t think it can be done economically, it’s part of the main frame of the car it’s not like an E46 rear subframeFor this reason I’d certainly avoid a written off or accident damaged car
From another forum:
the only Audi-approved way to do this is a MAJOR project that requires cutting the whole front end of the car off and replacing the sub-frame, aluminum welding, frame alignment, etc. Some of the members of this board have had it quoted - $50k+ which is why it likely results in a total loss.
Edited by jakesmith on Thursday 28th November 08:40
Edited by jakesmith on Thursday 28th November 08:41
Looked into this a fair bit ahead of a hopeful R8 V10 purchase in the near term
- very very rare
- almost always a result of a crash
- Aud reinforced frame from 2011 and not an issue post then
- you can buy a reinforcement kit from audi for pre 2011 cars for not a huge amount, gets welded on
So certainly not an issue if you check and possibly reinforce a pre 2011 car.
- very very rare
- almost always a result of a crash
- Aud reinforced frame from 2011 and not an issue post then
- you can buy a reinforcement kit from audi for pre 2011 cars for not a huge amount, gets welded on
So certainly not an issue if you check and possibly reinforce a pre 2011 car.
Whilst I agree with you in the main, There have been instances where cracks in the frame have occured without any accident damage. There is also a question as to whether the process of welding the plates on post build can actually cause more harm than good due to heat transfer.
A long read but sums up the situation as we know it
Taken from R8talk.com
I think this issue may not be the most important to worry about, but I also think there's risk in brushing it off as completely unlikely, as well. Here are some facts.
- We've had MULTIPLE members on our forum with frame cracks. So it does happen. Of those, at least 3 instances I can recall (slammedr8, mngolfer's buddy, and teejay) have all had cracks that didn't involve any accident. We'll have to take their words for it - slammedr8 provided tons of information / documentation on his incident. I think it's risky to assume that this is SO rare that it couldn't happen (not the case), and that so long as you don't get into an accident (or buy a car with accident history) that you're in the clear - that just doesn't appear to be true.
- "Insurance will cover it." Maybe, maybe not. Slammedr8's insurance company wrote off the car - he was left holding a $20k loss in the end. You'll have to ask him the specifics, and your mileage may vary, but I'd never rely upon insurance to do what's best for YOU... they're doing what's best for themselves. If you have a loan on the car, be especially careful with any assumptions you make here. Things like GAP insurance exist for a reason.
- "The braces can be welded safely." Says who? And therein lies the problem - multiple reputable shops have differed on this opinion. Folks I consider very trustworthy (like Ricky), stand behind the ability to weld these on to cars. However, we've had members who were repeatedly denied by other very reputable shops claiming it couldn't be done safely and didn't have Audi's support. Some even received quotes only to have them retracted after the shop spoke to Audi. So, as I said above, you won't find consensus on this... and therein lies ANOTHER problem...
- If there's any doubt, whatsoever, that braces could be added safely, I'd fully expect an insurance company worth its salt to exploit that point. If (and it's a big "if", mind you) you ended up buying a car with braces applied AFTER production, and you ended up with a frame crack (let's even say due to an accident), I would fully expect an insurance company to question whether the braces had something to do with the situation - especially if Audi denies it as a legitimate/sanctioned modification to the frame. That's just what they do - it's their job to NOT pay out, and you could be giving them a great place to hang their hat.
I think that last one is probably a very rare situation indeed, but since we're playing this out hypothetically, and Brioche has asked the question, I think those are some of the considerations that need to be accounted for in that scenario.
Do I think this is a common issue? No, not at all. But considering we've seen several instances on this forum, alone, and others are certainly out there (e.g. Samcrac's recent YouTube R8), I also wouldn't completely discount it. As I've said in other threads, it's an important thing to check in a PPI. IF it's true that an accident is not necessary to cause this (such as the three forum members I mentioned), there could reasonably be owners driving around with cracks that just don't know it - maybe caused by a bad pothole, possibly combined with some worn mag ride shocks, who knows. But considering the financial implications, I'd just do your best to inspect carefully during a PPI.
A long read but sums up the situation as we know it
Taken from R8talk.com
I think this issue may not be the most important to worry about, but I also think there's risk in brushing it off as completely unlikely, as well. Here are some facts.
- We've had MULTIPLE members on our forum with frame cracks. So it does happen. Of those, at least 3 instances I can recall (slammedr8, mngolfer's buddy, and teejay) have all had cracks that didn't involve any accident. We'll have to take their words for it - slammedr8 provided tons of information / documentation on his incident. I think it's risky to assume that this is SO rare that it couldn't happen (not the case), and that so long as you don't get into an accident (or buy a car with accident history) that you're in the clear - that just doesn't appear to be true.
- "Insurance will cover it." Maybe, maybe not. Slammedr8's insurance company wrote off the car - he was left holding a $20k loss in the end. You'll have to ask him the specifics, and your mileage may vary, but I'd never rely upon insurance to do what's best for YOU... they're doing what's best for themselves. If you have a loan on the car, be especially careful with any assumptions you make here. Things like GAP insurance exist for a reason.
- "The braces can be welded safely." Says who? And therein lies the problem - multiple reputable shops have differed on this opinion. Folks I consider very trustworthy (like Ricky), stand behind the ability to weld these on to cars. However, we've had members who were repeatedly denied by other very reputable shops claiming it couldn't be done safely and didn't have Audi's support. Some even received quotes only to have them retracted after the shop spoke to Audi. So, as I said above, you won't find consensus on this... and therein lies ANOTHER problem...
- If there's any doubt, whatsoever, that braces could be added safely, I'd fully expect an insurance company worth its salt to exploit that point. If (and it's a big "if", mind you) you ended up buying a car with braces applied AFTER production, and you ended up with a frame crack (let's even say due to an accident), I would fully expect an insurance company to question whether the braces had something to do with the situation - especially if Audi denies it as a legitimate/sanctioned modification to the frame. That's just what they do - it's their job to NOT pay out, and you could be giving them a great place to hang their hat.
I think that last one is probably a very rare situation indeed, but since we're playing this out hypothetically, and Brioche has asked the question, I think those are some of the considerations that need to be accounted for in that scenario.
Do I think this is a common issue? No, not at all. But considering we've seen several instances on this forum, alone, and others are certainly out there (e.g. Samcrac's recent YouTube R8), I also wouldn't completely discount it. As I've said in other threads, it's an important thing to check in a PPI. IF it's true that an accident is not necessary to cause this (such as the three forum members I mentioned), there could reasonably be owners driving around with cracks that just don't know it - maybe caused by a bad pothole, possibly combined with some worn mag ride shocks, who knows. But considering the financial implications, I'd just do your best to inspect carefully during a PPI.
vanman1936 said:
Great insight Trev....thanks for sharing.
So, is the post 2011 car a safe bet from the sub frame issue perspective?
Also, how have you found owning a V10??
Yes post September 2010 after the reinforcing plates were fitted during production should be safe. Just to be clear, its the point where the front suspension towers are welded to the bulkhead that can crack and this is fairly easy to examine once the front trim under the windcreen has been removed.So, is the post 2011 car a safe bet from the sub frame issue perspective?
Also, how have you found owning a V10??
I've owned mine for just over 3 years and it still puts a smile on my face which I don't remember any other car I've owned doing after that period of ownership. I can honestly say that I have no plans to change it as I can't think of anything else that would give me the same level of pleasure for similar money.
They are generally quite reliable but when things go wrong it can be costly. I would advise keeping an emergency fund just in case, or alternatively taking out an Audi warranty.
Trev450 said:
Yes post September 2010 after the reinforcing plates were fitted during production should be safe. Just to be clear, its the point where the front suspension towers are welded to the bulkhead that can crack and this is fairly easy to examine once the front trim under the windcreen has been removed.
I've owned mine for just over 3 years and it still puts a smile on my face which I don't remember any other car I've owned doing after that period of ownership. I can honestly say that I have no plans to change it as I can't think of anything else that would give me the same level of pleasure for similar money.
They are generally quite reliable but when things go wrong it can be costly. I would advise keeping an emergency fund just in case, or alternatively taking out an Audi warranty.
yes wish I could afford 2010 on but not got the dosh , so pay my money and take my chances …I've owned mine for just over 3 years and it still puts a smile on my face which I don't remember any other car I've owned doing after that period of ownership. I can honestly say that I have no plans to change it as I can't think of anything else that would give me the same level of pleasure for similar money.
They are generally quite reliable but when things go wrong it can be costly. I would advise keeping an emergency fund just in case, or alternatively taking out an Audi warranty.
I have a Carrera 997 and they I reputation for bore scoring (so new engine ) but there are loads that don't , you never know true % so you just have to see , I know I looked at getting an rs4 a while ago , they have coke problem (not the powered stuff !!) so I dint get one ,, then my mate laughed & said the r8 is the same engine …..
be safer to stick with a golf , ha ha
ian-163jt said:
yes wish I could afford 2010 on but not got the dosh , so pay my money and take my chances …
I have a Carrera 997 and they I reputation for bore scoring (so new engine ) but there are loads that don't , you never know true % so you just have to see , I know I looked at getting an rs4 a while ago , they have coke problem (not the powered stuff !!) so I dint get one ,, then my mate laughed & said the r8 is the same engine …..
be safer to stick with a golf , ha ha
Oh I wouldn't risk a golf - the 2.0 TFSI can suffer the same bore scoring as the 997, the DSG gearboxes suffer mechatronic failures costing £5k to sort, the 1.6TSI engines fail, or you get carjacked!I have a Carrera 997 and they I reputation for bore scoring (so new engine ) but there are loads that don't , you never know true % so you just have to see , I know I looked at getting an rs4 a while ago , they have coke problem (not the powered stuff !!) so I dint get one ,, then my mate laughed & said the r8 is the same engine …..
be safer to stick with a golf , ha ha
And the RS4 / R8 coking issue is nothing to worry about really - £500 every 40,000 miles
jakesmith said:
ian-163jt said:
Raven Flyer said:
For £500 I would get your local Audi R8 centre to do it. They will know R8s much better than an RAC Franchise holder and will know exactly what to look for.
so are there audi R8 centres ? what are they in a local branch just have a guy who knows r8 ?Raven Flyer said:
jakesmith said:
ian-163jt said:
Raven Flyer said:
For £500 I would get your local Audi R8 centre to do it. They will know R8s much better than an RAC Franchise holder and will know exactly what to look for.
so are there audi R8 centres ? what are they in a local branch just have a guy who knows r8 ?jakesmith said:
Oh I wouldn't risk a golf - the 2.0 TFSI can suffer the same bore scoring as the 997, the DSG gearboxes suffer mechatronic failures costing £5k to sort, the 1.6TSI engines fail, or you get carjacked!
And the RS4 / R8 coking issue is nothing to worry about really - £500 every 40,000 miles
ha ha the golf sounds a big risk , safer with r8And the RS4 / R8 coking issue is nothing to worry about really - £500 every 40,000 miles
ok I am near Portsmouth so will see if they have this "master tech"
good news guys & thanks for help ,tried to not do my normal & just buy, but I have again without seeing it !!
however I did listen & spent more than I should to get a safer bet in long run & got it off dealer …
will pick it up in couple of weeks ..
will keep you posted ….
what is a good exhaust for these as don't sound that good to be honest , do any come up for sale on here used ?
I have been told quicksilver / capristo / miltec ??????
can you get the original exhaust modified to sound better as that what I done on my 997, they altered it so it sounds like its in sport mode all the time , very nice job..
good news guys & thanks for help ,tried to not do my normal & just buy, but I have again without seeing it !!
however I did listen & spent more than I should to get a safer bet in long run & got it off dealer …
will pick it up in couple of weeks ..
will keep you posted ….
what is a good exhaust for these as don't sound that good to be honest , do any come up for sale on here used ?
I have been told quicksilver / capristo / miltec ??????
can you get the original exhaust modified to sound better as that what I done on my 997, they altered it so it sounds like its in sport mode all the time , very nice job..
Triple Six said:
Not sure if it's a little far but there is a garage in Poole called Mastertech.
They looked after my car in it's previous ownership and the bloke I bought the car from spoke very highly of them. I believe it was set up by two ex-mastertechs.
thanks , that's only an hour, so worth it to get right service , its hard as my car has full audi s.h but we all know , that's not always the best , but people like it for re-sale (as I did!!)They looked after my car in it's previous ownership and the bloke I bought the car from spoke very highly of them. I believe it was set up by two ex-mastertechs.
ian-163jt said:
I did listen & spent more than I should to get a safer bet in long run & got it off dealer …
will pick it up in couple of weeks ..
will keep you posted ….
what is a good exhaust for these as don't sound that good to be honest , do any come up for sale on here used ?
I have been told quicksilver / capristo / miltec ??????
can you get the original exhaust modified to sound better as that what I done on my 997, they altered it so it sounds like its in sport mode all the time , very nice job..
Congrats - will look forward to hearing more about it.will pick it up in couple of weeks ..
will keep you posted ….
what is a good exhaust for these as don't sound that good to be honest , do any come up for sale on here used ?
I have been told quicksilver / capristo / miltec ??????
can you get the original exhaust modified to sound better as that what I done on my 997, they altered it so it sounds like its in sport mode all the time , very nice job..
Capristo are about the best you can get but at a price. Quicksilver are getting good reviews and are quite reasonably priced. There is a simple 'disconnect' mod you can do to the stock exhaust that keeps the valves open permanently, but doesn't make a huge difference.,
Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 1st December 19:47
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