Will Corona effect the Supercar Market
Discussion
Taffy66 said:
Ferruccio said:
Holidays is a big saving.
Its a combination of both. High earners who normally have expensive high living lifestyles will have saved a huge amount in the last 12 months. Easy come easy go. Cheib said:
GT3 prices are if anything up £10k over the last three months for manual cars especially there were say 40 cars available at the end of last summer. I think there are 7 now at OPC’s.
Ha hope GT4RS on here who constantly in vain talks down GT3 prices is sitting down when he reads that. 
:av185 said:
Cheib said:
GT3 prices are if anything up £10k over the last three months for manual cars especially there were say 40 cars available at the end of last summer. I think there are 7 now at OPC’s.
Ha hope GT4RS on here who constantly in vain talks down GT3 prices is sitting down when he reads that. :It’s wasn’t that long ago many owners tried and sold 991.2 gt3 cars for 155k plus, those cars are now worth 40k less in the trade and when the new updated 992 gt3 lands the current owners who wish to upgrade will. As we all know this will only increase numbers in the used gt car market and it’s shrinking market. A lot of gt speculators got out 3 years ago and may not be brave enough to get back in. This has been demonstrated by the availability of the new 718 gt4 and you even quoted this week the 718 gt4 Syder was easy to obtain and not hard!
It’s is what it is, us talking about it on a car forum has no impact on prices AV185 !
GT4RS said:
It’s wasn’t that long ago many owners tried and sold 991.2 gt3 cars for 155k plus, those cars are now worth 40k less in the trade
You are back to your old form once and making the classic mistake of confusing apples and pears in this case trade and retail prices ££.Next you'll be once more quoting steel braked GT3s as the best spec cars ....again.
Get your facts straight ffs!
av185 said:
You are back to your old form once and making the classic mistake of confusing apples and pears in this case trade and retail prices ££.
Next you'll be once more quoting steel braked GT3s as the best spec cars ....again.
Get your facts straight ffs!
Again only in the UK are PCCB seen as of any value , but we do not drive the cars anyway Next you'll be once more quoting steel braked GT3s as the best spec cars ....again.
Get your facts straight ffs!
GT4RS said:
650spider said:
Problem shall increase in spring when people always list after winter and more come onto the market.
Great time currently if you are a buyer.
1+Great time currently if you are a buyer.
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
It’s wasn’t that long ago many owners tried and sold 991.2 gt3 cars for 155k plus, those cars are now worth 40k less in the trade
You are back to your old form once and making the classic mistake of confusing apples and pears in this case trade and retail prices ££.Next you'll be once more quoting steel braked GT3s as the best spec cars ....again.
Get your facts straight ffs!
Just to recap most retail customers buy cars at retail prices and end up selling them back to trade at trade prices. So there’s no point saying your privately owned 991.2 gt3 is worth 119k when that’s the price some are now being retailed at. So unless you have some magic powers and can sell your car back to a dealer for the same price or more than they will sell it for I’m correct in my thinking.
I guess you still think 4000 miles is very high mileage for a 991.2 gt3 or have you now accepted that it’s actually not the case?
GT4RS said:
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
It’s wasn’t that long ago many owners tried and sold 991.2 gt3 cars for 155k plus, those cars are now worth 40k less in the trade
You are back to your old form once and making the classic mistake of confusing apples and pears in this case trade and retail prices ££.Next you'll be once more quoting steel braked GT3s as the best spec cars ....again.
Get your facts straight ffs!
Just to recap most retail customers buy cars at retail prices and end up selling them back to trade at trade prices. So there’s no point saying your privately owned 991.2 gt3 is worth 119k when that’s the price some are now being retailed at. So unless you have some magic powers and can sell your car back to a dealer for the same price or more than they will sell it for I’m correct in my thinking.
I guess you still think 4000 miles is very high mileage for a 991.2 gt3 or have you now accepted that it’s actually not the case?
Again you display your confusion re spec etc the cheapest cars with the worst specs with e.g. 4 owners+ MAY be selling at £120ks privately or non specialist dealers but rare good spec CS manuals especially 18 plate 1 owner sub 5k milers are retailing over £140k again as the fast selling 17 reg marmite spec £138k Romans car that Cheib posted up proves. I posted already on at least two threads I know of 2 similar but newer cars that sold privately very quickly at approaching £140k and my OPC has bid similar money on my 5k miler.
Read more of the threads look at cars for sale and those sold if that interests you and hopefully you may just understand the market better and which cars are selling for what money and why, not just Porsche but other cars too btw.
Edited by av185 on Thursday 11th February 22:43
hunter 66 said:
100 Billion pounds saved by households in lockdown ....SUPERCAR time , except the new generation are not car mad ... EV will destroy that further with the next generation cars .... 0-60 in under 2 secs , why would you buy a noisy slow car
I tested the new Tycan recently as I sold the daily macan and thought it might make a nice driver due to the tax benefits, lovely interior with excellent visibility and it went like the clappers. As fast if not faster than my 911.2, but it felt soulless in my opinion and the drive did very little for me. What shocked me was some of the younger generation in our company, they were blown away by it and all told me to get with the times when I said it was lacking a petrol engine.av185 said:
I've never claimed a GT3 isn't worthy if it doesn't have ceramics extended leather and delivery mileage you've just made that up too. What I have said all along and you know full well that a car without ceramics and extended leather and fewer miles is worth more ££. This has been proved to you many times on many threads. Hardly rocket science as thats what most buyers of most cars in this category want....end of.
Again you display your confusion re spec etc the cheapest cars with the worst specs with e.g. 4 owners+ MAY be selling at £120ks privately or non specialist dealers but rare good spec CS manuals especially 18 plate 1 owner sub 5k milers are retailing over £140k again as the fast selling 17 reg marmite spec £138k Romans car that Cheib posted up proves. I posted already on at least two threads I know of 2 similar but newer cars that sold privately very quickly at approaching £140k and my OPC has bid similar money on my 5k miler.
Read more of the threads look at cars for sale if that interests you and hopefully you may just understand the market better and which cars are selling for what money and why, not just Porsche btw.
As I am not a car dealer like you , who cares ?? I have a .2 RS , done 12 k miles , track days , hill climbs and have a bit of fun ...... easier to make money in the day job . Yes have proper collectors cars as well and race those globally , where the depreciation we are talking about is a weekends spend . Life is too short Again you display your confusion re spec etc the cheapest cars with the worst specs with e.g. 4 owners+ MAY be selling at £120ks privately or non specialist dealers but rare good spec CS manuals especially 18 plate 1 owner sub 5k milers are retailing over £140k again as the fast selling 17 reg marmite spec £138k Romans car that Cheib posted up proves. I posted already on at least two threads I know of 2 similar but newer cars that sold privately very quickly at approaching £140k and my OPC has bid similar money on my 5k miler.
Read more of the threads look at cars for sale if that interests you and hopefully you may just understand the market better and which cars are selling for what money and why, not just Porsche btw.
Edited by hunter 66 on Thursday 11th February 22:35
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
It’s wasn’t that long ago many owners tried and sold 991.2 gt3 cars for 155k plus, those cars are now worth 40k less in the trade
You are back to your old form once and making the classic mistake of confusing apples and pears in this case trade and retail prices ££.Next you'll be once more quoting steel braked GT3s as the best spec cars ....again.
Get your facts straight ffs!
Just to recap most retail customers buy cars at retail prices and end up selling them back to trade at trade prices. So there’s no point saying your privately owned 991.2 gt3 is worth 119k when that’s the price some are now being retailed at. So unless you have some magic powers and can sell your car back to a dealer for the same price or more than they will sell it for I’m correct in my thinking.
I guess you still think 4000 miles is very high mileage for a 991.2 gt3 or have you now accepted that it’s actually not the case?
Again you display your confusion re spec etc the cheapest cars with the worst specs with e.g. 4 owners+ MAY be selling at £120ks privately or non specialist dealers but rare good spec CS manuals especially 18 plate 1 owner sub 5k milers are retailing over £140k again as the fast selling 17 reg marmite spec £138k Romans car that Cheib posted up proves. I posted already on at least two threads I know of 2 similar but newer cars that sold privately very quickly at approaching £140k and my OPC has bid similar money on my 5k miler.
Read more of the threads look at cars for sale if that interests you and hopefully you may just understand the market better and which cars are selling for what money and why, not just Porsche btw.
I have said this to you before, not all gt3 owners want club sports, bucket seats, ceramic brakes, extended leather and sub 5000 miles. For example some may want the far more rare touring with sofa seats, steel brakes and are happy to pay 50k more for it due to the touring gt3 being so few and far between.
You seem to be getting weekly offers from your OPC on your gt3, what was your most recent offer from your opc to buy it outright? Don’t tell me, last week they offered you 139k for a straight trade buy as you think (your opinion) yours is the best spec one out there and the ones up for are 120k have something wrong with them.
The car making slumped by almost a third in 2020 to the lowest output in 36 YEARS, 10s of thousands if not more jobs have been lost across the car sector in the wake of Covid and it is predicted by the car industry, the next couple of months could be the hardest for the car sector, even worse than 2020.
Has covid effected the super car market, yes. It has reduced the amount of people buying / selling abs driving cars which the market is based around.
Has it effected AV185 opinion on his trade in value for his perfect spec 991.2 gt3 since he picked it up in 2018 possibly not.
What’s interesting about the world today is people are allowed to have different opinions. Lets not forget your recent opinion is it won’t be long before a perfect spec (to you) Ferrari pista will be able to be bought at retail for 220k! God help what’s going to happen to the values of our cars if a pista in no time at all drops to 220k retail, considering many are 300k to 350k at present!
What a beautiful world we live in.
hunter 66 said:
av185 said:
I've never claimed a GT3 isn't worthy if it doesn't have ceramics extended leather and delivery mileage you've just made that up too. What I have said all along and you know full well that a car without ceramics and extended leather and fewer miles is worth more ££. This has been proved to you many times on many threads. Hardly rocket science as thats what most buyers of most cars in this category want....end of.
Again you display your confusion re spec etc the cheapest cars with the worst specs with e.g. 4 owners+ MAY be selling at £120ks privately or non specialist dealers but rare good spec CS manuals especially 18 plate 1 owner sub 5k milers are retailing over £140k again as the fast selling 17 reg marmite spec £138k Romans car that Cheib posted up proves. I posted already on at least two threads I know of 2 similar but newer cars that sold privately very quickly at approaching £140k and my OPC has bid similar money on my 5k miler.
Read more of the threads look at cars for sale if that interests you and hopefully you may just understand the market better and which cars are selling for what money and why, not just Porsche btw.
As I am not a car dealer like you , who cares ?? I have a .2 RS , done 12 k miles , track days , hill climbs and have a bit of fun ...... easier to make money in the day job . Yes have proper collectors cars as well and race those globally , where the depreciation we are talking about is a weekends spend . Life is too short Again you display your confusion re spec etc the cheapest cars with the worst specs with e.g. 4 owners+ MAY be selling at £120ks privately or non specialist dealers but rare good spec CS manuals especially 18 plate 1 owner sub 5k milers are retailing over £140k again as the fast selling 17 reg marmite spec £138k Romans car that Cheib posted up proves. I posted already on at least two threads I know of 2 similar but newer cars that sold privately very quickly at approaching £140k and my OPC has bid similar money on my 5k miler.
Read more of the threads look at cars for sale if that interests you and hopefully you may just understand the market better and which cars are selling for what money and why, not just Porsche btw.
Edited by hunter 66 on Thursday 11th February 22:35
Not that long ago av185 mentioned he owned a chain of luxury hotels across the UK. When he mentioned he used to own a main franchise car dealership I thought he was taking the p*ss!
When are you going to give us treat with more pics of your race car. You teased us last time when you were doing work on it. Bet you cant wait to get back out in it.
hunter 66 said:
100 Billion pounds saved by households in lockdown ....SUPERCAR time , except the new generation are not car mad ... EV will destroy that further with the next generation cars .... 0-60 in under 2 secs , why would you buy a noisy slow car
Because theres no substitute for an ICE car with a charsimatic engine as most enthusiasts have already discussed time and time again.EV is just a means of souless transport. Fast yes, but entirely detached even before the driver inevitably becomes redundant in a few years time and there will be no interaction or driving skills required whatsoever.
EV batteries are hugely inefficient, very expensive to replace, of limited life and of colossal weight which contributes to excessive brake and tyre pollution and deteriorate massively in extreme weather. There will be anarchy at charging points due to restricted range time and limited infrastructure.
EVs will update automatically and remotely waiting for smart but ludicrously low speed limits to satisfy big brother and Brake bleaters far and wide.
What is clear is that we are sleepwalking into a time when intersting and characterful cars together with personal freedoms are consigned to history apart from private collections for those affluent enough.
True petrolheads and those with any interesting ICE car never mind supercar are the very opposite of EVangelists. No one cares whether bland benign and boring commuter boxes morph into EVs so bring it on but as serious petrolheads we should be seriously opposed to the possible and likely demise of characterful true driving cars especially supercars.
Edited by av185 on Friday 12th February 08:46
GT4RS said:
You have proven nothing, you have only given your opinion on what you feel most gt3 buyers want based on a spec you personally like.
I have said this to you before, not all gt3 owners want club sports, bucket seats, ceramic brakes, extended leather and sub 5000 miles. For example some may want the far more rare touring with sofa seats, steel brakes and are happy to pay 50k more for it due to the touring gt3 being so few and far between.
The car making slumped by almost a third in 2020 to the lowest output in 36 YEARS, 10s of thousands if not more jobs have been lost across the car sector in the wake of Covid and it is predicted by the car industry, the next couple of months could be the hardest for the car sector, even worse than 2020.
I have never said all GT3 buyers want CS and ceramics and higher spec cars. Again, you just made that up.I have said this to you before, not all gt3 owners want club sports, bucket seats, ceramic brakes, extended leather and sub 5000 miles. For example some may want the far more rare touring with sofa seats, steel brakes and are happy to pay 50k more for it due to the touring gt3 being so few and far between.
The car making slumped by almost a third in 2020 to the lowest output in 36 YEARS, 10s of thousands if not more jobs have been lost across the car sector in the wake of Covid and it is predicted by the car industry, the next couple of months could be the hardest for the car sector, even worse than 2020.
But MOST do. Ask any OPC buyerof Porsche GTs. And this is quite clearly reflected in higher prices for these cars simply due to demand which always sell quickly whereas the cheaper weird/comfort spec cars hang around the better cars sell overnight in many cases at top money pre advertising as the recent higher spec Romans car proves once more proper spec cars with higher otr cost new retails for more shocker lol.
:You are confusing the new car market with used.
Read and try and understand the Covid used car threads on PH and you will see that the used market saw very strong prices throughout 2020 in fact record increases across the board whilst many were predicting a crash in used prices the opposite happened after March to both mainstream and higher end including supercars. Similarly and interestingly this is predicted to continue throughout 2021 as lockdown cash rich used car buyers fuel the boom and restricted new car production mainstream and higher end together with reduced supplies of used stock especially limited run models at higher price levels push prices higher.
Edited by av185 on Friday 12th February 07:22
GT4RS said:
What’s interesting about the world today is people are allowed to have different opinions. Lets not forget your recent opinion is it won’t be long before a perfect spec (to you) Ferrari pista will be able to be bought at retail for 220k! God help what’s going to happen to the values of our cars if a pista in no time at all drops to 220k retail, considering many are 300k to 350k at present!
No Pista has sold over £300k since last Autumn which is hardly surprising having regard to the sheer number of Pistas Speciales and Tributos currently for sale. You should know the market for these merely by the 2 lightly used decent spec Pistas which sold for c£290ks on CC last year.My recent post on RSVPs Amaris thread stated they are currently retailing at c£280k which is accurate if you do your research.
With late newer reg lightly used good spec franchised Tributos currently at c £225k retail these cars offer virtually identical performance and are actually rarer and fewer in manufacturing numbers than the overpriced Pista so the writing is on the wall for both this and the similarly overpriced Speciale price wise imo. This is even before you consider the threat to these prices from the cheaper Performante and various Mclarens mainly 720 s and 600LT both of which are c mid £130ks for decent spec and mileage 2019 cars and clearly offer incredible value despite not being everyones cup of tea.
GT4RS said:
I tested the new Tycan recently as I sold the daily macan and thought it might make a nice driver due to the tax benefits, lovely interior with excellent visibility and it went like the clappers. As fast if not faster than my 911.2, but it felt soulless in my opinion and the drive did very little for me. What shocked me was some of the younger generation in our company, they were blown away by it and all told me to get with the times when I said it was lacking a petrol engine.
Taycan is a big family sedan, weighs 2.5 tonnes and already has 0-60 figures that are matched by precisely 1 other car in Porsche's line-up, which happens to be the newest iteration of the top trim of their fastest ICE model, i.e. 992 Turbo S. Taycan is also Porsche's first-ever EV car, so the next models they'll release can only get better (faster, better handling, offering better range...). I think the other poster has a point - when Porsche (and other manufacturers) start releasing EV sport cars, their performance will beat that of petrol cars' by a large margin. It will have to - otherwise, enthusiasts attached to the sound or habit of driving petrol cars would find no reason to buy an EV sports car, and ultimately manufacturers want to sell more cars. So in 3-4 years' time we'll see £80k sports cars (new EV Lotus/Alpine, Cayman etc) which will do 0-60 in around 3 seconds, offer maximum torque from 0 mph and hopefully drive quite well, too, due to low centre of gravity etc. Or Japanese/Korean hot-hatches which will do 0-60 in under 4 secs... In other words, when looked at purely from performance perspective, there's a chance EVs will offer performance of today's £200k+ supercars for 1/3 of the price relatively soon. Of course, the sound will be missing but how many people will pay a massive premium for that? Personally I own 2 petrol cars and have a 3rd (Cayman GTS 4.0) on order and can't wait. I also have no view on the short-term (as in, next 12 months) prospects of supercar prices; but there is a risk the above scenario will materialise.
Edited by px1980 on Friday 12th February 11:12
sparta6 said:
Will see an increase in people driving across Europe, currently safer and more fun than flying
Insaid last year when this hit that i thought the luxury car market would possibly hold or increase due to this fact, used Bentley prices are certainly holding well for some reason, dont think the same applies to supercars as much..galtezza said:
sparta6 said:
Will see an increase in people driving across Europe, currently safer and more fun than flying
Insaid last year when this hit that i thought the luxury car market would possibly hold or increase due to this fact, used Bentley prices are certainly holding well for some reason, dont think the same applies to supercars as much..I think it will be a several months before UK citizens can move freely around Europe because of worries about the “UK variant”.
Next year maybe ! .
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