Will Corona effect the Supercar Market

Will Corona effect the Supercar Market

Author
Discussion

Dewi 2

288 posts

21 months

Friday 15th May
quotequote all

Ferruccio said:
Dewi 2 said:
They have had 107 years of practice to be profitable, but during that time have only cracked it on a handful of occasions. Ironically, one of their profitable periods was when they were not even making cars. Aircraft parts for the war effort.
My personal experience of AML unfortunately is that it’s just a badly run company.

There is often a high correlation between this and financial success.

I tried to feed this back to the company in advance of the float through a board member because I knew a shareholder who had a substantial holding.
Nothing.
No interest whatever in the customer experience, the additional costs that they incurred and the lost revenue opportunities I saw.

That’s often the trouble with VC lead businesses.
But they sold out at £19 and now the share price is 30p so they feel they did a really great job.
I don’t. It’s bad capitalism.

McLaren unfortunately smells the same.

The latest period of management was clearly, even from the start too ambitious. They thought one car could be developed, which would then produce profits to develop the next new model and so on, at the rate of one new car each year for seven years, then repeat. That might have seemed normal coming from Nissan, but the sports car business has always been very different. Unless you happen to be Ferrari or Morgan, history shows that regular profitability is almost impossible. AML over the 107 years, has had a very wide selection of management with varied abilities, some with highly successful records in other businesses. Every time though it has proved too difficult, so I don't think we can always blame management.

You must have been referring to a board member with a shareholding in the private Company. In the couple of years before the IPO, the plan must have been 'set in stone'. Remember how many new model and luxury goods announcements there were. The hype was in progress to ramp up expectations. That might be why you did not have a response. As you say, the Italian PE investors presumably were dictating. They could not exit completely though, so have suffered a big paper loss from the IPO price, on their remaining holdings. They even increased their holding at an agreed £10. By the time that deal completed, those shares were trading in the market at £5! Having to pay twice the price, must have given them a bad feeling.

The Middle East shareholders became involved when Ford sold Aston Martin in 2007, and did appear to be happy as long-term holders.

Small point - the 30p share price cannot now be compared to the 1900p float price, because far more shares are now in issue.

Yes, agree with you that the McLaren sports car division face exactly the same market sector difficulties.

Aside from the business aspect though, isn't it great that people are prepared to take big risks and provide us with a choice of wonderful sports cars to enjoy?





Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 15th May 18:09

SSO

831 posts

147 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
carspath said:
Interesting that so much is being spoken about the purchase price , but so little is spoken of the running costs .

Is this because PH'ers are keen enthusiasts who want to briefly taste all the delicious morsels that the Supercar World can offer , and so will only be hanging on to any given car for a year or two before moving on to yet another delectable ?

For long-term owners ,the running costs are surely as important as the purchase price ?
I just posted up an article covering about 18 years of maintenance costs across different Ferraris we have owned. On average it is about GBP 2k a year.

ghost83

3,919 posts

146 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
SSO said:
I just posted up an article covering about 18 years of maintenance costs across different Ferraris we have owned. On average it is about GBP 2k a year.
Read your piece on twitter and commented not as much as I thought!

I bet it’s a different story with mclaren if you keep a warranty on them,

Regarding the F40 I had the pleasure of been at jct brooklands in Leeds for a charity auction as my uncle worked high up in jct, and they had a F40 and an F50 on display and the sheer presence of the F40 was amazing! (This was about 18-19yrs ago)

Any uk owners (West Yorkshire area) have an F40 I would really love a ride in one, literally is a meet your hero car for me, same with a mclaren F1 lm

SSO

831 posts

147 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
ghost83 said:
I bet it’s a different story with mclaren if you keep a warranty on them,
I actually working on an article on the McLaren maintenance costs now. Should have it posted in a day or two.

ghost83

3,919 posts

146 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
SSO said:
I actually working on an article on the McLaren maintenance costs now. Should have it posted in a day or two.
Nice one!

What is it like physically living with the F40, I’ve read a couple of your pieces, but 14yrs ownership obviously tells you a lot, I suppose just opening the garage and seeing it sat there makes you smile

FezSpider

634 posts

188 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
SSO said:
I actually working on an article on the McLaren maintenance costs now. Should have it posted in a day or two.
Yea I really enjoy reading your articles, great job.

carspath

630 posts

133 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
SSO.... Interesting figure re long term Ferrari maintenance costs.
I would have said the same re 355 maintenance over a 9 year period.

Also the same sort of figure for V12 Lambos over a 20 year and a 6 year period .

Edited by carspath on Saturday 16th May 17:52

SSO

831 posts

147 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
FezSpider said:
SSO said:
I actually working on an article on the McLaren maintenance costs now. Should have it posted in a day or two.
Yea I really enjoy reading your articles, great job.
Much appreciated.

SSO

831 posts

147 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
ghost83 said:
SSO said:
I actually working on an article on the McLaren maintenance costs now. Should have it posted in a day or two.
Nice one!

What is it like physically living with the F40, I’ve read a couple of your pieces, but 14yrs ownership obviously tells you a lot, I suppose just opening the garage and seeing it sat there makes you smile
Seeing the F40 does always make me smile. Living with it very long term really allows you to get to know the car and become very comfortable behind the wheel.

Regy53

79 posts

87 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
I am still waiting for the drop. Have not seen it yet apart from the CC auctions.

Dealers are still selling cars, I am itching for a 458 but do not want to jump to early if there's anything like a 10k saving to be had by waiting a few months on a 130-140k car.

Shnozz

21,837 posts

227 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
Regy53 said:
I am still waiting for the drop. Have not seen it yet apart from the CC auctions.

Dealers are still selling cars, I am itching for a 458 but do not want to jump to early if there's anything like a 10k saving to be had by waiting a few months on a 130-140k car.
The country (and others) is being artificially supported by the state at present. Job losses are yet to crystalise and people have had little expense working from home, mortgage holidays and the like. When that support stops the tide will go out and a more realistic market will be laid bare.

dmahon

393 posts

20 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
Regy53 said:
I am still waiting for the drop. Have not seen it yet apart from the CC auctions.

Dealers are still selling cars, I am itching for a 458 but do not want to jump to early if there's anything like a 10k saving to be had by waiting a few months on a 130-140k car.
Im the same. I’ve almost talked myself into a 458 or 488 if we are going to get stuck in the UK all summer. I don’t want to take a 10k hit and then dealer margins as well on the transaction.

oml130

17 posts

34 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
SSO said:
carspath said:
Interesting that so much is being spoken about the purchase price , but so little is spoken of the running costs .

Is this because PH'ers are keen enthusiasts who want to briefly taste all the delicious morsels that the Supercar World can offer , and so will only be hanging on to any given car for a year or two before moving on to yet another delectable ?

For long-term owners ,the running costs are surely as important as the purchase price ?
I just posted up an article covering about 18 years of maintenance costs across different Ferraris we have owned. On average it is about GBP 2k a year.
Where can I find this article, please?

Pvapour

8,866 posts

209 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
av185 said:
Pvapour said:
Got offered an un-registered AMG GTR roadster at £45k off list yesterday.
Where from?
Happy to say if i dont go ahead..

Here’s the spec if you wana put a price on it

0
01U
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A
1
0
02U
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1
0
08U
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A
1
0
09U
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A
1
0
14U
Smartphone integration
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1
0
16U
Apple CarPlay
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1
0
203
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1
0
239
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1
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256
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1
0
283
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1
0
351
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A
1
0
362
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A
1
0
367
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1
0
401
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1
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403
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1
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446
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598
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800
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644
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565
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1
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1
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22P
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234
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1
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241
Front seat left, electrically adjustable memory switch
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1
0
249
Interior mirror and driver's exterior mirror automatically dimming
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275
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299
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1
0
429
AMG SPEEDSHIFT DCT 7-speed sports transmission
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1
0
461
Instrument cluster with display in miles and English lettering
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1
0
467
AMG electronic rear-axle limited-slip differential
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S
1
0
475
Tyre pressure monitoring system
0.00
S
1
0
476
Lane keeping assist
0.00
S
1
0
479
AMG RIDE CONTROL suspension
0.00
S
1
0
500
Electrically folding exterior mirrors
0.00
S
1
0
513
Traffic Sign Assist
0.00
S
1
0
531
COMAND Online
0.00
S
1
0
537
Digital radio
0.00
S
1
0
551
Anti-theft alarm system (ATA) with parking damage alert
0.00
S
1
0
555
AMG Performance seats
0.00
S
1
0
581
THERMOTRONIC automatic climate control
0.00
S
1
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608
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0.00
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631
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666
Freight packaging without tie-down hooks
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735
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740
Fabric soft top black
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817
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877
Ambient lighting
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882
Interior motion sensor
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885
Enhanced anti-theft protection
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889
KEYLESS-GO
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915
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927
EU6 emissions standard
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968
CoC document EU6 without Reg. Cert. Part II
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B51
TIREFIT with tyre inflation compressor
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K11
Adaptive brake lights
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L6G
AMG Performance steering wheel in DINAMICA
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1
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P17
KEYLESS-GO package
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P49
Mirror Package
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1
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Anti-Theft Protection Package
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1
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P64
Memory package
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1
0
PAK
AMG Interior Night package
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1
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R03
Sports tyres
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1
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RXC
19"/20" AMG Performance forged-alloy wheels (4) - 5-twin-spoke design
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U10
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B10
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PZB
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PZX
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D5B
UK Standard
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1

fastraxx

7,808 posts

59 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
oml130 said:
Where can I find this article, please?
https://karenable.com/maintenance-costs-ferraris/

500 Miles

1,207 posts

182 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
jonah35 said:
The issue with cheap pcp deals is lots of people buy them new which is good in the short term

It does however take a bazooka to the second hand values and all the owners take a big bath

That then puts people off buying in future and pcp deals get dearer as balloon goes lower by finance cos that have been burned

Let’s talk straight

There’s a reason people buy a 911 GT3 and more than people admit it’s because they like the residuals

There’s a reason why people will happily spend £10k on a Rolex but not on a hub lot - it’s cos they owners know they’re not gonna take a bath

Mclaren have lost their way now
Porsche and Rolex and Ferrari to a lesser degree know how to maintain a brand image

Always keep supply below demand

Aston Martin are comical at the moment. Cars with dire interiors and their share price is reflective of what the market thinks
I agree with most of what you say - although would disagree that the AM interiors are dire... I’ve had a DB11 for a couple of years and it’s a nice place to be, Vantage interior looks decent and the DBX interior is a step on. I probably wouldn’t be happy with a dbs interior being so similar to a DB11 but wouldn’t call it dire..

rkanaga

335 posts

176 months

Monday 18th May
quotequote all
Well I hope that your impressed that Ive waited this long before pointing out the spelling mistake in the title.

I tried to ignore it, really I did.



thecook101

743 posts

71 months

Monday 18th May
quotequote all
rkanaga said:
Well I hope that your impressed that Ive waited this long before pointing out the spelling mistake in the title.

I tried to ignore it, really I did.
smile

rkanaga

335 posts

176 months

Monday 18th May
quotequote all
andrew said:
hth smile
7 minutes, a new record, it shouldn't (sic) be this easy!

It's (sic) like taking candy from a baby.

Sorry, couldn't (sic) resist!

hehe

RT964

250 posts

34 months

Monday 18th May
quotequote all
dmahon said:
Im the same. I’ve almost talked myself into a 458 or 488 if we are going to get stuck in the UK all summer. I don’t want to take a 10k hit and then dealer margins as well on the transaction.
If you are going to just buy a car for the summer, you'll always get hit by the dealer margin. As for the £10k hit you mention, who knows ?!

I bought a 458 earlier this year. Yes, maybe my timing could have been better as I picked it up at the end of Feb, however I bought it at what I thought was a very good price compared to what else was on the market (a lot of which are still on the market).

Do I think I'd have got an even better deal if I'd waited until now ? Possibly. Another £10k off - I doubt it. And anyway, I've had the pleasure of driving the car over the past 3 months and have done more miles than the previous owner did in 18 months ... mind you, he only did 400 miles, so that wasn't difficult biggrin