Lag Time for Supercar Prices to adjust to Market Conditions
Discussion
footsoldier said:
We are at the very early days of this, and herd immunity is pretty much the only way out, ..
The way outs are the following :-Herd immunity as you say
-Existing drugs being used to make the effects of the virus non-life threatening - something that is being investigated on a daily basis and could end up being the early 'saviour' from lockdown and social distancing, allowing a quicker "back to norm"
-A new vaccine - this one being the solution that will be coming in 2021 to allow a "back to norm" way of life.
The virus will still circulate within human populations for years and years, but with a vaccine or with existing drug combinations being able to treat it, it will just become "another flu", nothing much to worry about (hopefully - dependant on how it mutates over time).
But the real problem with this current virus is the lasting effects it has on the body. Blood clots, reduced lung capacity, affecting all ages, not just the elderly. There are then total unknowns of longer term effects, even in those that displayed no symptoms at all. Questions arising over whether the damage done within the body will likely lead to developing cancers etc.
Until the virus is well understood I don't think herd immunity is the "go to" solution. I for one will be doing my best to avoid catching it and I'm a fit healthy late 30's.
I've been trying hard to not get involved in medical debates on forums, cause it's not simple, as you say. (and I definitely don't have all the answers).
Agree that treatment is a way to improve the outcomes on all fronts, but it's not a way out.
Right now, having looked at all the stats very closely, including the fake ones, and knowing my own health, I would take my chances with the virus, rather than a vaccine that is rushed through.
Agree that treatment is a way to improve the outcomes on all fronts, but it's not a way out.
Right now, having looked at all the stats very closely, including the fake ones, and knowing my own health, I would take my chances with the virus, rather than a vaccine that is rushed through.
Well I would say that if existing drugs are found to be effective in treatment to avoid the risk of death, then this is also a way to build up herd immunity as the body will have fought off the virus to much of an extent. The existing drugs would serve to have bolstered the body's survivability.
So it offers as much a "way out" as 'basic' herd immunity.
Regarding the vaccine, this "should" be guaranteed, which is why it will take months and run in to 2021 before it is approved for wider public use.
The LAST thing that a responsible government and institutions will want is for the cure to be worse than the virus itself. If the vaccine is 'bad' then there will be millions and millions of compensation claims if it has any severe negative impacts on short or longer term health.
Not to mention the worse case scenario if the vaccine causes premature death by unforeseen effects. This could be how humanity wipes itself off the planet! Forget WWIII - which incidentally is not all that far from reality in the near future given how China is playing the aggressive stance at the moment in the south china sea and also with its totally irresponsible cover up of the virus in its early days. The rest of the world is most definitely going to want to have its pound of flesh when the focus of the virus turns to economic recovery.
Just to mention that I'm in a similar boat to you, I've just got opinion to offer on the subject based up on what I've read.
So it offers as much a "way out" as 'basic' herd immunity.
Regarding the vaccine, this "should" be guaranteed, which is why it will take months and run in to 2021 before it is approved for wider public use.
The LAST thing that a responsible government and institutions will want is for the cure to be worse than the virus itself. If the vaccine is 'bad' then there will be millions and millions of compensation claims if it has any severe negative impacts on short or longer term health.
Not to mention the worse case scenario if the vaccine causes premature death by unforeseen effects. This could be how humanity wipes itself off the planet! Forget WWIII - which incidentally is not all that far from reality in the near future given how China is playing the aggressive stance at the moment in the south china sea and also with its totally irresponsible cover up of the virus in its early days. The rest of the world is most definitely going to want to have its pound of flesh when the focus of the virus turns to economic recovery.
Just to mention that I'm in a similar boat to you, I've just got opinion to offer on the subject based up on what I've read.
Although I was alive back I 1968, alas only 2 years old so I cant remember.
However can any one remember in 1968 when there was the hong kong flu pandemic which killed 80,000 people in the uk alone , and over a million world wide. How did we eventually over come this?
Any old....older guys remember?
Was it a vaccine or heard immunity?
However can any one remember in 1968 when there was the hong kong flu pandemic which killed 80,000 people in the uk alone , and over a million world wide. How did we eventually over come this?
Any old....older guys remember?
Was it a vaccine or heard immunity?
Edited by FezSpider on Monday 4th May 17:27
Vaccine- hope this isn't behind a paywall https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/02/britai...
the-photographer said:
I would be a little careful of asymptomatic cases, especially in the old. Over half had some kind of ground-glass opacities, something you would want to monitor!
https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/ryct.2020200110
https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/ryct.2020200110
I stand by what I said. 20% of the people on the ship who tested positive (i.e. almost certainly had the disease) had no symptoms. That's what asymptomatic means. Having opacities on a CT isn't a symptom ...
OP here .
So 3 -4 months after Covid started it’s assault on the UK , we have some evidence of the time lag ( and the financial hit ) of this disaster on the UK classic supercar market , in the form of a Countach being auctioned by Collecting Cars .
The car in question is a Countach 5000 QV 88 1/2 ...... arguably the most coveted version other than the LP400.
The auctioneer’s description would suggest that this is a lovely ( excepting the ghastly red steering wheel and gear knob )low mileage example , and a couple of years ago , I would have thought that this would have been sold from a dealership in days , and at a cost of between £400k and £500k .
The current bid is stuck st £195k , with 2 days to go .
It will be interesting to see what it finally goes for .
Is there a way of telling from CC’s website if this car has reached its reserve ?
So 3 -4 months after Covid started it’s assault on the UK , we have some evidence of the time lag ( and the financial hit ) of this disaster on the UK classic supercar market , in the form of a Countach being auctioned by Collecting Cars .
The car in question is a Countach 5000 QV 88 1/2 ...... arguably the most coveted version other than the LP400.
The auctioneer’s description would suggest that this is a lovely ( excepting the ghastly red steering wheel and gear knob )low mileage example , and a couple of years ago , I would have thought that this would have been sold from a dealership in days , and at a cost of between £400k and £500k .
The current bid is stuck st £195k , with 2 days to go .
It will be interesting to see what it finally goes for .
Is there a way of telling from CC’s website if this car has reached its reserve ?
Edited by carspath on Sunday 14th June 14:35
£270k for that Countach is ridiculously cheap .
It would have commanded almost twice that price a couple of years ago .
A brutal reflection of the times.
And I think a more accurate gauge of the market than the pricing of current Lambo , Ferrari and McLaren supercars .
This is a bona fide , iconic supercar , not swayed by short term ‘’ latest and greatest ‘’ sentiment .
Production count was 1998 ..... although Lambo in those days had a very elastic counting system .
If it’s pricing is so badly hammered , God save the rest of the market .... especially the new supercar market .
To the buyer ( and let’s hope you are an enthusiast who has lusted for ages after this special car ) , congratulations, you’ll love it ...... one of 14 in RHD ( some of which sadly are apparently no longer in existence ) .
This is a very, very , very long term keeper .
ENJOY .
It would have commanded almost twice that price a couple of years ago .
A brutal reflection of the times.
And I think a more accurate gauge of the market than the pricing of current Lambo , Ferrari and McLaren supercars .
This is a bona fide , iconic supercar , not swayed by short term ‘’ latest and greatest ‘’ sentiment .
Production count was 1998 ..... although Lambo in those days had a very elastic counting system .
If it’s pricing is so badly hammered , God save the rest of the market .... especially the new supercar market .
To the buyer ( and let’s hope you are an enthusiast who has lusted for ages after this special car ) , congratulations, you’ll love it ...... one of 14 in RHD ( some of which sadly are apparently no longer in existence ) .
This is a very, very , very long term keeper .
ENJOY .
Edited by carspath on Tuesday 16th June 17:13
carspath said:
£270k for that Countach is ridiculously cheap .
It would have commanded almost twice that price a couple of years ago .
A brutal reflection of the times.
And I think a more accurate gauge of the market than the pricing of current Lambo , Ferrari and McLaren supercar .
This is a bona fide , iconic supercar , not swayed by short term ‘’ latest and greatest ‘’ sentiment .
If it’s pricing is so badly hammered , God save the rest of the market .... especially the new supercar market .
To the buyer , congratulations, you’ll love it ...... one of 14 in RHD ( some of which sadly are apparently no longer in existence ) .
This is a very, very , very long term keeper .
ENJOY .
Hammer price was £269,500, so with 6% for CC is almost £285,670k, but still a 'relative' bargain in Countach terms.It would have commanded almost twice that price a couple of years ago .
A brutal reflection of the times.
And I think a more accurate gauge of the market than the pricing of current Lambo , Ferrari and McLaren supercar .
This is a bona fide , iconic supercar , not swayed by short term ‘’ latest and greatest ‘’ sentiment .
If it’s pricing is so badly hammered , God save the rest of the market .... especially the new supercar market .
To the buyer , congratulations, you’ll love it ...... one of 14 in RHD ( some of which sadly are apparently no longer in existence ) .
This is a very, very , very long term keeper .
ENJOY .
A very very special car indeed being an 88.5.
Pretty much the definitive Countach as most purists didn't consider the Anniversary to be so. Even though quite a subtle feature in the flesh the additional strakes give it an even more mean stance.
I wonder what the Hartley Anniversary actually sold for.
Pretty much the definitive Countach as most purists didn't consider the Anniversary to be so. Even though quite a subtle feature in the flesh the additional strakes give it an even more mean stance.
I wonder what the Hartley Anniversary actually sold for.
Yes , I agree cgt2 ........ for me too the 88 1/2 is pretty much the definitive REAL WORLD Countach .
The LP 400 is more sleek and more pure in design , but I thought that they felt vey fragile .
The later cars feel more ‘’ solid ‘’...... at least they did to me .
The QV’s have the Alfieri touch to their engines , and the rare 88 1/2have the Horacio Pagani designed side strokes.
Alfieri in particular was a true legend ....... Maserati 250F and the Birdcage , and his involvement with the QV engine gave it real engineering integrity .
In fact it was more than involvement , he designed the whole cylinder head , and modified the block .
Also Chrysler , with their financial clout , were in full control of Lamborghini by the time the 88 1/2 came out , so there was more money for better quality control , and for some relatively minor tweaking of the suspension geometry to optimise grip and handling at the extremes of the driving envelope . Not that many , if any , owners were likely to explore that region of their car,s performance .
Some parts of me regret the loss of the smooth dolphin belly of the earlier cars , but those side strakes do lend an air of aggression , and were functional. They helped cool the rear brake discs .
Looks are so personal , but the Anniversary, which was meant to hark back to the prototype LP500 , doesn’t really do it for me . Completely personal feeling re the looks , and mechanically the Anniversary cars should have evolved further , and be even better .
So , for me the final iteration of the QV variant , in the form of the 88 1/2 , is the ultimate Countach if you want to drive it .
The LP 400 is more sleek and more pure in design , but I thought that they felt vey fragile .
The later cars feel more ‘’ solid ‘’...... at least they did to me .
The QV’s have the Alfieri touch to their engines , and the rare 88 1/2have the Horacio Pagani designed side strokes.
Alfieri in particular was a true legend ....... Maserati 250F and the Birdcage , and his involvement with the QV engine gave it real engineering integrity .
In fact it was more than involvement , he designed the whole cylinder head , and modified the block .
Also Chrysler , with their financial clout , were in full control of Lamborghini by the time the 88 1/2 came out , so there was more money for better quality control , and for some relatively minor tweaking of the suspension geometry to optimise grip and handling at the extremes of the driving envelope . Not that many , if any , owners were likely to explore that region of their car,s performance .
Some parts of me regret the loss of the smooth dolphin belly of the earlier cars , but those side strakes do lend an air of aggression , and were functional. They helped cool the rear brake discs .
Looks are so personal , but the Anniversary, which was meant to hark back to the prototype LP500 , doesn’t really do it for me . Completely personal feeling re the looks , and mechanically the Anniversary cars should have evolved further , and be even better .
So , for me the final iteration of the QV variant , in the form of the 88 1/2 , is the ultimate Countach if you want to drive it .
Edited by carspath on Wednesday 17th June 09:51
carspath said:
Yes , I agree cgt2 ........ for me too the 88 1/2 is pretty much the definitive REAL WORLD Countach .
The LP 400 is more sleek and more pure in design , but I thought that they felt vey fragile .
The later cars feel more ‘’ solid ‘’...... at least they did to me .
The QV’s have the Alfieri touch to their engines , and the rare 88 1/2have the Horacio Pagani designed side strokes.
Alfieri in particular was a true legend ....... Maserati 250F and the Birdcage , and his involvement with the QV engine gave it real engineering integrity .
In fact it was more than involvement , he designed the whole cylinder head , and modified the block .
Also Chrysler , with their financial clout , were in full control of Lamborghini by the time the 88 1/2 came out , so there was more money for better quality control , and for some relatively minor tweaking of the suspension geometry to optimise grip and handling at the extremes of the driving envelope . Not that many , if any , owners were likely to explore that region of their car,s performance .
Some parts of me regret the loss of the smooth dolphin belly of the earlier cars , but those side strakes do lend an air of aggression , and were functional. They helped cool the rear brake discs .
Looks are so personal , but the Anniversary, which was meant to hark back to the prototype LP500 , doesn’t really do it for me . Completely personal feeling re the looks , and mechanically the Anniversary cars should have evolved further , and be even better .
So , for me the final iteration of the QV variant , in the form of the 88 1/2 , is the ultimate Countach if you want to drive it .
100% agree on all counts. Although the Periscopo is beautiful there is a definite aggression to the 88.5 which is a great balance of old and new.The LP 400 is more sleek and more pure in design , but I thought that they felt vey fragile .
The later cars feel more ‘’ solid ‘’...... at least they did to me .
The QV’s have the Alfieri touch to their engines , and the rare 88 1/2have the Horacio Pagani designed side strokes.
Alfieri in particular was a true legend ....... Maserati 250F and the Birdcage , and his involvement with the QV engine gave it real engineering integrity .
In fact it was more than involvement , he designed the whole cylinder head , and modified the block .
Also Chrysler , with their financial clout , were in full control of Lamborghini by the time the 88 1/2 came out , so there was more money for better quality control , and for some relatively minor tweaking of the suspension geometry to optimise grip and handling at the extremes of the driving envelope . Not that many , if any , owners were likely to explore that region of their car,s performance .
Some parts of me regret the loss of the smooth dolphin belly of the earlier cars , but those side strakes do lend an air of aggression , and were functional. They helped cool the rear brake discs .
Looks are so personal , but the Anniversary, which was meant to hark back to the prototype LP500 , doesn’t really do it for me . Completely personal feeling re the looks , and mechanically the Anniversary cars should have evolved further , and be even better .
So , for me the final iteration of the QV variant , in the form of the 88 1/2 , is the ultimate Countach if you want to drive it .
Edited by carspath on Wednesday 17th June 09:51
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