Collecting Cars auction results
Discussion
bish_345 said:
Or it could just as easily be that the owner of the 550 is a British expat who lives in Hong Kong and stores the car with the storage facility and wants to sell it and asked the storage facility to handle it for him as he's currently on the other side of the world...
Then this should be a more of a private sale, than a Trade/dealer sale. Either way, it should not be classified as a ‘managed’ sale? I guess it’s a grey area but how managed is managed until it’s a dealer sale? SOR is also a dealer managing a sale? They don’t own the vehicle.The comment in the sale raises the right concerns
09 OCT19:45
21ATS
The issue that creates is the people listing this car for sale are not the legal owner nor are they a registered motor trader. Do they have a formal letter of appointment from the owner? If they do can it be published on the listing please.
Edited by 9Elfer on Tuesday 13th October 06:20
bish_345 said:
Or it could just as easily be that the owner of the 550 is a British expat who lives in Hong Kong and stores the car with the storage facility and wants to sell it and asked the storage facility to handle it for him as he's currently on the other side of the world...
It would have taken one minute to add that info to the advert. This is a classic example...2.7 RS that has been on International Collectibles website for months. Is now for sale as “Managed”
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-9...
It’s obviously been for sale SoR but I assume if you bought this car you pay the owner directly. The owner than pays IC for “managing” the sale....massive grey area. I reckon if there was a problem with the car International Collectibles would have a problem legally saying they haven’t actor as a trade seller of the car. Doesn’t matter what the cash flow/structure of the transaction is it’s how you acted. They have placed the advert on Collecting Cars which whatever the website says means they’re selling and acting as a Motor Trader ias far as the law is concerned.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-9...
It’s obviously been for sale SoR but I assume if you bought this car you pay the owner directly. The owner than pays IC for “managing” the sale....massive grey area. I reckon if there was a problem with the car International Collectibles would have a problem legally saying they haven’t actor as a trade seller of the car. Doesn’t matter what the cash flow/structure of the transaction is it’s how you acted. They have placed the advert on Collecting Cars which whatever the website says means they’re selling and acting as a Motor Trader ias far as the law is concerned.
9Elfer said:
Then this should be a more of a private sale, than a Trade/dealer sale. Either way, it should not be classified as a ‘managed’ sale? I guess it’s a grey area but how managed is managed until it’s a dealer sale? SOR is also a dealer managing a sale? They don’t own the vehicle.
The comment in the sale raises the right concerns
09 OCT19:45
21ATS
The issue that creates is the people listing this car for sale are not the legal owner nor are they a registered motor trader. Do they have a formal letter of appointment from the owner? If they do can it be published on the listing please.
I was comfortable up to £65K including comission, after that I'm out simply due to the complete lack of accountability or redress on behalf of the listing platform or the "managed" seller.The comment in the sale raises the right concerns
09 OCT19:45
21ATS
The issue that creates is the people listing this car for sale are not the legal owner nor are they a registered motor trader. Do they have a formal letter of appointment from the owner? If they do can it be published on the listing please.
Edited by 9Elfer on Tuesday 13th October 06:20
I had a chat about the legalities of this with the guy that has previously done vehicle finance for me. It wasn't pretty and it certainly gives food for thought.
From a buyers perspective you are "bidding" on a car as a private sale, yet there are two professional companies lifting a fee from the sale, one in the form of CC at 6% and the second the "car storage facility". You think the seller want to pay this or do you think they expect the buyer to cover these "fees" and also not get any form of legal accountability for these fees?
These are all effectively private sales, they would be very difficult vehicles on which to obtain any form of finance. Not impossible, just difficult.You only then find that out after the non refundable 6% fee has been charged to your card.
Just go in open minded.
IMO if it's a trade price then it's fair - the problem is many of the reserves are being set at retail.
In the case of the 550 this is the "managing" seller - https://www.v-management.com/#sales
Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 13th October 09:27
Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 13th October 09:28
Cheib said:
This is a classic example...2.7 RS that has been on International Collectibles website for months. Is now for sale as “Managed”
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-9...
It’s obviously been for sale SoR but I assume if you bought this car you pay the owner directly. The owner than pays IC for “managing” the sale....massive grey area. I reckon if there was a problem with the car International Collectibles would have a problem legally saying they haven’t actor as a trade seller of the car. Doesn’t matter what the cash flow/structure of the transaction is it’s how you acted. They have placed the advert on Collecting Cars which whatever the website says means they’re selling and acting as a Motor Trader ias far as the law is concerned.
I agree with you.https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-9...
It’s obviously been for sale SoR but I assume if you bought this car you pay the owner directly. The owner than pays IC for “managing” the sale....massive grey area. I reckon if there was a problem with the car International Collectibles would have a problem legally saying they haven’t actor as a trade seller of the car. Doesn’t matter what the cash flow/structure of the transaction is it’s how you acted. They have placed the advert on Collecting Cars which whatever the website says means they’re selling and acting as a Motor Trader ias far as the law is concerned.
All of these people are claiming to simply be introducing two private parties with their part only being classed as "brokers".
Of course they are traders, of course they are trading in this manner to circumvent the legal responsibilites of being a trader. It will take a court case to sort it out though, or at least to create a precedent . That won't be cheap.
Thank you 21ATS ringing the points precisely. The storage company is basically acting as a trade/dealer. In fact there’s probably argument (from a spirit point of view) that if CC is arranging a photo shoot and writing/presenting their own description of the car, taking fees for a sale, aren’t CC doing the function of a trader/dealer already? Just without the legal protection that covers the conduct and warranties a trade should provide?
eBay doesn’t take picture for you nor write the descriptions/adverts. They are a neutral platform, CC I’m not so sure.
I wonder how many of the eventual buyers inspect the car..
With respect to disappearing auction listings, I’m taking a far guess and thinking, if the organizers know the reserve, and are putting in (artificial) bids to game/spice up the auction, it would connect the dots well that if the spicing up doesn’t work, and no real bidder is lured in to buy the car, that the auction convenient disappears.
It troubles me that after the Ford ‘sold’ listing was posted here and recognized as likely a sale that never happened, that it just disappeared from the site. Seems someone is reading and knows the spelling of guilty.
eBay doesn’t take picture for you nor write the descriptions/adverts. They are a neutral platform, CC I’m not so sure.
Cheib said:
This is a classic example...2.7 RS that has been on International Collectibles website for months. Is now for sale as “Managed”
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-9...
It’s obviously been for sale SoR but I assume if you bought this car you pay the owner directly. The owner than pays IC for “managing” the sale....massive grey area. I reckon if there was a problem with the car International Collectibles would have a problem legally saying they haven’t actor as a trade seller of the car. Doesn’t matter what the cash flow/structure of the transaction is it’s how you acted. They have placed the advert on Collecting Cars which whatever the website says means they’re selling and acting as a Motor Trader ias far as the law is concerned.
Cars been around for a year at least on IC. It’s even got IC as the seller but they won’t stand up to the obligations of a trade/dealer - hence managed.https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-9...
It’s obviously been for sale SoR but I assume if you bought this car you pay the owner directly. The owner than pays IC for “managing” the sale....massive grey area. I reckon if there was a problem with the car International Collectibles would have a problem legally saying they haven’t actor as a trade seller of the car. Doesn’t matter what the cash flow/structure of the transaction is it’s how you acted. They have placed the advert on Collecting Cars which whatever the website says means they’re selling and acting as a Motor Trader ias far as the law is concerned.
I wonder how many of the eventual buyers inspect the car..
With respect to disappearing auction listings, I’m taking a far guess and thinking, if the organizers know the reserve, and are putting in (artificial) bids to game/spice up the auction, it would connect the dots well that if the spicing up doesn’t work, and no real bidder is lured in to buy the car, that the auction convenient disappears.
It troubles me that after the Ford ‘sold’ listing was posted here and recognized as likely a sale that never happened, that it just disappeared from the site. Seems someone is reading and knows the spelling of guilty.
The more I read this thread, the more I realise the owners of CC are trying to not act like a traders, nor want to carry any of the responsibility’s of a trader, but still want to collect the pay packet on each sale like a trader!
I would say the person who just stopped bidding on the 550 got away lightly.
I would say the person who just stopped bidding on the 550 got away lightly.
9Elfer said:
GT4RS said:
It also wouldn’t shock me if this thread gets deleted shortly!
Has PH had a history of deleting threads that of this nature? Their own policy or because pressure from the subject (who is obviously keeping a close eye, 'ahem Ford').
GT4RS said:
The more I read this thread, the more I realise the owners of CC are trying to not act like a traders, nor want to carry any of the responsibility’s of a trader, but still want to collect the pay packet on each sale like a trader!
I would say the person who just stopped bidding on the 550 got away lightly.
I'm more bothered about the "managed" part of this than CC.I would say the person who just stopped bidding on the 550 got away lightly.
I understood from day one that CC are no different to Autotrader or eBay when it comes to the "service" they provide. They are an advertising platform, so when I bid, their 6% commission is coming out of the value of the car, not my pocket.
They make it clear what they are.
The storage companies actively advertising their services for sale and aquisitions is more misleading.
I bid what I felt was a private sale price on the 550 less 6%. If someone wants to pay retail for that car with no benefits of retail facilites or backup then good luck to them, that person isn't me.
GT4RS said:
Ph are normally very professional, I would imagine it would be CC who ask for the thread to be closed if to many people have the same opinion on what’s going on.
Would be a shame on PH if they do.I had a peruse though themarket this morning. I find the description and pictures must more detailed and relating to the car much better. CC descriptions+pictures seem very flakey in comparison. I hope themarket gets some traction as if you spend some time checking the auctions, the conduct to get things 'honest' is obvious.
21ATS said:
I'm more bothered about the "managed" part of this than CC.
I understood from day one that CC are no different to Autotrader or eBay when it comes to the "service" they provide. They are an advertising platform, so when I bid, their 6% commission is coming out of the value of the car, not my pocket.
They make it clear what they are.
The storage companies actively advertising their services for sale and aquisitions is more misleading.
I bid what I felt was a private sale price on the 550 less 6%. If someone wants to pay retail for that car with no benefits of retail facilites or backup then good luck to them, that person isn't me.
Can't have said this better.I understood from day one that CC are no different to Autotrader or eBay when it comes to the "service" they provide. They are an advertising platform, so when I bid, their 6% commission is coming out of the value of the car, not my pocket.
They make it clear what they are.
The storage companies actively advertising their services for sale and aquisitions is more misleading.
I bid what I felt was a private sale price on the 550 less 6%. If someone wants to pay retail for that car with no benefits of retail facilites or backup then good luck to them, that person isn't me.
It seems the private sales are ok, as long as you read the descriptions and pictures with a grain of salt and do proper homework, like what you would do with any ebay ad or autotrader (just that you are paying much more fees for the inflated ads?)
The trade part you just have to understand you are dealer with a dealer.
The managed part seems just very grey and dubious all in all. Looks like more than one advert where a car clearly is being put on by a trade/dealer but processed as managed to dodge out of the protection required.
GT4RS said:
9Elfer said:
GT4RS said:
It also wouldn’t shock me if this thread gets deleted shortly!
Has PH had a history of deleting threads that of this nature? Their own policy or because pressure from the subject (who is obviously keeping a close eye, 'ahem Ford').
Hi All,
I’m going to throw in my 2 pence worth having bought the black 456 (see Readers Car forum for details).
This is a car auction site, it is the bidders responsibility to check the car out, no different from eBay or BCA or Silverstone Auction etc.
In my opinion the big advantage is the 200 high res photos but the text is written to sell the car, not calling out any issues in detail. Would you get any different elsewhere?
I like the ‘only interesting cars’ policy they have. They also do some good features:
I think some cars are going for good prices and I do recognise that some cars appear again (348 for example), however that is due to reserves not being met or a winning bidder pulling out. This also happens on eBay.
Having gone through the process of listing my Audi d2 S8, I ended up choosing an eBay classified add plus the Pistonheads classifieds.
It’s a buyers market right now, don’t dismiss Collect Cars but do your own research on the car and see if you can view before (like I did).
Cheers
I’m going to throw in my 2 pence worth having bought the black 456 (see Readers Car forum for details).
This is a car auction site, it is the bidders responsibility to check the car out, no different from eBay or BCA or Silverstone Auction etc.
In my opinion the big advantage is the 200 high res photos but the text is written to sell the car, not calling out any issues in detail. Would you get any different elsewhere?
I like the ‘only interesting cars’ policy they have. They also do some good features:
I think some cars are going for good prices and I do recognise that some cars appear again (348 for example), however that is due to reserves not being met or a winning bidder pulling out. This also happens on eBay.
Having gone through the process of listing my Audi d2 S8, I ended up choosing an eBay classified add plus the Pistonheads classifieds.
It’s a buyers market right now, don’t dismiss Collect Cars but do your own research on the car and see if you can view before (like I did).
Cheers
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