Discussion
Assuming quite a few Ferrari regulars have changed from an F12 to an 812.
Looking at the figures to do this myself I would have to invest at least another 80k. To me the F12 is a better looking car but I have never driven an 812 which I obviously have to do.
What are the current owners thoughts on the 812 compared to the F12?
Looking at the figures to do this myself I would have to invest at least another 80k. To me the F12 is a better looking car but I have never driven an 812 which I obviously have to do.
What are the current owners thoughts on the 812 compared to the F12?
Speaking from the outside looking in, as it were, I just can't imagine why one would do that unless you absolutely have to have the latest shiny thing. They are both ultramodern Ferraris with incredible n/a V12 and flappy paddle gearbox. £80k buys a lot of cars to sit alongside.
Personally prefer the styling of the F12
Personally prefer the styling of the F12
The 812 is much improved IMO. It has much better damping and more feel through each corner so has lost that "dead" inert feeling that the F12 always had esp. at low speed. So the 812 feels more car like and less like a dead brick. The damping is not as hard/harsh like the F12 either. The turn in is obviously much better and the car shrinks more so far easier to be commited whereas the F12 always needed to be slightly coaxed in with a transitional moment when turning in when you had to play the waiting game for a split second. The 812 is also less nervous with a much more agreeable throttle. At 80mph on the mway it feels perfectly happy whereas the F12 was never really comfortable at anything less than about 120 ! The 812 can do a relaxed drive so is a much better GT.
With all this though there is a downside of course and that is that the 812 is not the unhinged crazy animal that the F12 was ... although in my experience, this was only really a benefit on the massive desolate roads of northern Spain and Portugal (even Switzerland, Croatia and Austria was too cramped/busy). The F12 was also frustrating for me in the UK. I rarely enjoyed driving it here. Just exacerbating because it's a car that only wants to live at 11 out of 10. The 488 which replaced mine was a thousand times better as a GT and everyday car. The 812 corrects all of these faults.
With all this though there is a downside of course and that is that the 812 is not the unhinged crazy animal that the F12 was ... although in my experience, this was only really a benefit on the massive desolate roads of northern Spain and Portugal (even Switzerland, Croatia and Austria was too cramped/busy). The F12 was also frustrating for me in the UK. I rarely enjoyed driving it here. Just exacerbating because it's a car that only wants to live at 11 out of 10. The 488 which replaced mine was a thousand times better as a GT and everyday car. The 812 corrects all of these faults.
thecook101 said:
:-( Really. Just selling my 612 and was planning on an F12. Looking at your car history you have form. I will of course drive one myself but really that bad?
speaking relatively of course .... the wideband headline is that the F12 is obviously an incredible car !but there is a deadness to the chassis and damping IMO
the 812 is more feelsome and organic, damping from a different era
like comparing 458 to 488
jackal said:
speaking relatively of course .... the wideband headline is that the F12 is obviously an incredible car !
but there is a deadness to the chassis and damping IMO
the 812 is more feelsome and organic, damping from a different era
like comparing 458 to 488
Absolutely spot on on both counts..but there is a deadness to the chassis and damping IMO
the 812 is more feelsome and organic, damping from a different era
like comparing 458 to 488
jackal said:
The 812 is much improved IMO. It has much better damping and more feel through each corner so has lost that "dead" inert feeling that the F12 always had esp. at low speed. So the 812 feels more car like and less like a dead brick. The damping is not as hard/harsh like the F12 either. The turn in is obviously much better and the car shrinks more so far easier to be commited whereas the F12 always needed to be slightly coaxed in with a transitional moment when turning in when you had to play the waiting game for a split second. The 812 is also less nervous with a much more agreeable throttle. At 80mph on the mway it feels perfectly happy whereas the F12 was never really comfortable at anything less than about 120 ! The 812 can do a relaxed drive so is a much better GT.
With all this though there is a downside of course and that is that the 812 is not the unhinged crazy animal that the F12 was ... although in my experience, this was only really a benefit on the massive desolate roads of northern Spain and Portugal (even Switzerland, Croatia and Austria was too cramped/busy). The F12 was also frustrating for me in the UK. I rarely enjoyed driving it here. Just exacerbating because it's a car that only wants to live at 11 out of 10. The 488 which replaced mine was a thousand times better as a GT and everyday car. The 812 corrects all of these faults.
I have had my F12 for about 3 weeks now, and agree with you, it definitely doesn't like bumps mid corner and it does seem to tramline. My question is with 70 years of making cars why wouldn't Ferrari have dialled these things out before the 2012 launch? If they knew how to make a car like the 812 why not have done it to the F12 ignoring the rear wheel steer tech. However I do love imperfect cars like my Manual Murcielago makes you a more alert driver having to work more.With all this though there is a downside of course and that is that the 812 is not the unhinged crazy animal that the F12 was ... although in my experience, this was only really a benefit on the massive desolate roads of northern Spain and Portugal (even Switzerland, Croatia and Austria was too cramped/busy). The F12 was also frustrating for me in the UK. I rarely enjoyed driving it here. Just exacerbating because it's a car that only wants to live at 11 out of 10. The 488 which replaced mine was a thousand times better as a GT and everyday car. The 812 corrects all of these faults.
Fuoco said:
I have had my F12 for about 3 weeks now, and agree with you, it definitely doesn't like bumps mid corner and it does seem to tramline. My question is with 70 years of making cars why wouldn't Ferrari have dialled these things out before the 2012 launch? If they knew how to make a car like the 812 why not have done it to the F12 ignoring the rear wheel steer tech. However I do love imperfect cars like my Manual Murcielago makes you a more alert driver having to work more.
I think they deliberately hold back, it's important for them to have something for the next modelsFuoco said:
I have had my F12 for about 3 weeks now, and agree with you, it definitely doesn't like bumps mid corner and it does seem to tramline. My question is with 70 years of making cars why wouldn't Ferrari have dialled these things out before the 2012 launch? If they knew how to make a car like the 812 why not have done it to the F12 ignoring the rear wheel steer tech. However I do love imperfect cars like my Manual Murcielago makes you a more alert driver having to work more.
Damping is one of the things that progresses at a fair rate of knots so its advancement, even within a single model, can be quite significant (c.f. 991 GT3 mk1 vs. mk2 !)Tried a 458 lately ? It rides like a kit car compared to a 488, let alone F8.
Fuoco said:
I have had my F12 for about 3 weeks now, and agree with you, it definitely doesn't like bumps mid corner and it does seem to tramline. My question is with 70 years of making cars why wouldn't Ferrari have dialled these things out before the 2012 launch? If they knew how to make a car like the 812 why not have done it to the F12 ignoring the rear wheel steer tech. However I do love imperfect cars like my Manual Murcielago makes you a more alert driver having to work more.
Just about to set off on my first big road trip (Chamonix and back via Pass St Bernard and Evian/Champagne) so will update when back. Have had mine a week less than Fuoco and love it. Not sure I would call it dead but tramline a little for sure!Will do mountain pics assuming weather is nice and I am not upside down in a ditch, on fire.
hornbaek said:
I’m looking into buying an 812 but have one issue. How do you deal with the size (width) of the 812 in everyday life ?
This was my concern, but after driving one I must say the steering precision allows you to place the car exactly where you want.Plus, similar to 488/F8, the front wing/wheel arches are visible from the drivers seat, so you always know where you are.
IMO, easier to handle and less of an issue with bonnet length, than the narrower AMG GT.
i just did 900 miles in my F12 just before Xmas and before everyone moved into Tier 4, the F12 is just unreal, i absolutely love it! i would never consider switching it for an 812, sure the 812 may make driving easier for the pilot, but A. do you even want that? B. does it give you that extra special feeling when you are on the limit? and C. does it look anywhere near as good as an 812 when doing B.
personally id use the extra savings on buying something nice to go alongside it, maybe a 991 gen1 N/A GTS for the more every day driving.
personally id use the extra savings on buying something nice to go alongside it, maybe a 991 gen1 N/A GTS for the more every day driving.
I made the change as I found an 812 with my perfect spec and had a good offer on my F12
I love it. I think the F12 looks less fussy but the 812 in Dark Colours looks good.
Driving wise Its a big step up, only downside the ride is certaily firmer and shorter gearing is noticable on Motorway runs, so car never really settles down like the F12 did
Engine, to me feels a lot quicker, especially the last 2k revs that are truly insane
Sound. Much better and louder,
Drivetrain, the best bit, so fast on down changes, real emotion
Interior, torn on this, its great but the F12 had a classic feel that I feel will age better
I ran my F12 for 1.5 years and sold it for what I paid for it and picked up an 812 ex Ferrari car with 1k miles, so I am the 1st owner and registered April 21.
Love the F12 and may get another at some point but, 7 years servicing and new warranty could not be ignored. Also the fact that I saved 120k from list helped
I love it. I think the F12 looks less fussy but the 812 in Dark Colours looks good.
Driving wise Its a big step up, only downside the ride is certaily firmer and shorter gearing is noticable on Motorway runs, so car never really settles down like the F12 did
Engine, to me feels a lot quicker, especially the last 2k revs that are truly insane
Sound. Much better and louder,
Drivetrain, the best bit, so fast on down changes, real emotion
Interior, torn on this, its great but the F12 had a classic feel that I feel will age better
I ran my F12 for 1.5 years and sold it for what I paid for it and picked up an 812 ex Ferrari car with 1k miles, so I am the 1st owner and registered April 21.
Love the F12 and may get another at some point but, 7 years servicing and new warranty could not be ignored. Also the fact that I saved 120k from list helped
good result getting out of the F12 for the same money you paid for it - only car that ever happened to me with was the 458 spider.
I have had an F12 - sold 3 years ago ,so not a true back to back comparison but I have had my 812 for 6 months - I find it better in every department- the engine and more importantly the handling is significantly improved.
I also thing the interior is a significant improvement.
looks are subjective of course
I put this down to the rear wheel steering which ,to me, makes the car feel smaller than it is on the twisty roads.
It is an absolute beast but I had winter tyres on mine and you can trundle around in wet mode quite happily if you want to DD drive it.
For me ,the best car I ever owned and you won't regret the change.
Interestingly there seems to be a dwindling supply on the market , particularly through official dealers.
My dealer called me recently and asked if I was interested in selling it back ( I didn't ask how much as I don't want to sell it)and I intend to keep it forever as I suspect it will be the pinnacle of ferrari normally aspirated V12's in a non limited edition car. which is interesting as a year or so again I heard that dealers weren't even prepared to offer on them!
I have had an F12 - sold 3 years ago ,so not a true back to back comparison but I have had my 812 for 6 months - I find it better in every department- the engine and more importantly the handling is significantly improved.
I also thing the interior is a significant improvement.
looks are subjective of course
I put this down to the rear wheel steering which ,to me, makes the car feel smaller than it is on the twisty roads.
It is an absolute beast but I had winter tyres on mine and you can trundle around in wet mode quite happily if you want to DD drive it.
For me ,the best car I ever owned and you won't regret the change.
Interestingly there seems to be a dwindling supply on the market , particularly through official dealers.
My dealer called me recently and asked if I was interested in selling it back ( I didn't ask how much as I don't want to sell it)and I intend to keep it forever as I suspect it will be the pinnacle of ferrari normally aspirated V12's in a non limited edition car. which is interesting as a year or so again I heard that dealers weren't even prepared to offer on them!
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