where has the flair gone in ferraris?
Discussion
being a keen sports car enthusiast i have always loved ferraris but for some reason they seem to have lost there way a bit in the styling department? when you look at the old 308gtb the boxer and the dino they were all great sportscars`and even though todays 355 and other moldels are still great cars to drive they just seem to lack the looks and rawness of the older models and in some cases they dont even look like they have been styled by ferrari? in fact some look like they have been styled by honda or mitsubushi its only the famous prancing horse on the front which tells you it is actually a ferrari? it would be nice to get some other honest opinions thanks
Alan,
Nothing stands still for ever. You can look at the older cars and you have to admit they look dated. Now I am not taking anything away from them for saying that. Designs evolve and what evoked awe 20 years ago is not the same that will press the buttons of todays markets. Trends are just that trends, in another 20 years they may evolve back again.
Rich
Nothing stands still for ever. You can look at the older cars and you have to admit they look dated. Now I am not taking anything away from them for saying that. Designs evolve and what evoked awe 20 years ago is not the same that will press the buttons of todays markets. Trends are just that trends, in another 20 years they may evolve back again.
Rich
Ferraris used to be styled by one man and his pen, someone like Fioravanti, who did the lovely 308 and Daytona.
Today, aerodynamics, budgets, marketing research groups, tooling costs and management (amongst others) all have a look in. They just can't get away with designing a pretty car (like the 308) that will generate uplift at 150mph because of its swoppy bodywork (hence the 328 having deeper front spoilers and a rear spoiler, and the 288 GTO and F40 evolutions being even less 'pure' looking.
Pininfarina will have a whole team designing one model, and have to cope with all sorts of client comments. I think the 355 and 360 still look pretty good compared to some other sportscars out there that have been through a similar process - the maxim 'a camel is a horse designed by committee' applies to many cars today.
Finally, remember that form tends to follow function. Ferraris are dynamically a league ahead of where they used to be, and so they will look different accordingly. All we can hope for is that they remain as beautiful as possible, given their function and other circumstances.
Cheers
Dom
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 16:40
Today, aerodynamics, budgets, marketing research groups, tooling costs and management (amongst others) all have a look in. They just can't get away with designing a pretty car (like the 308) that will generate uplift at 150mph because of its swoppy bodywork (hence the 328 having deeper front spoilers and a rear spoiler, and the 288 GTO and F40 evolutions being even less 'pure' looking.
Pininfarina will have a whole team designing one model, and have to cope with all sorts of client comments. I think the 355 and 360 still look pretty good compared to some other sportscars out there that have been through a similar process - the maxim 'a camel is a horse designed by committee' applies to many cars today.
Finally, remember that form tends to follow function. Ferraris are dynamically a league ahead of where they used to be, and so they will look different accordingly. All we can hope for is that they remain as beautiful as possible, given their function and other circumstances.
Cheers
Dom
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 16:40
The Ferrari 355 is an absolutely stunning car - one of the most beautiful ever produced IMO. I have driven one and enjoyed it, though I thought the interior a bit disappointing compared to the TVRs I have driven. I'm not as keen on the 360 as I am on the 355.
If you want to see cutting-edge design in sports cars then for me TVR currently has no peers. I honestly think they lead the world in both interior and exterior styling, though I accept that ergonomically some of their interiors are substantially inferior to more mass-produced competitors. However, if TVR produced as many cars in as many markets as Ferrari then I have no doubt that their styling would suffer too.
You pays your money, etc.
If you want to see cutting-edge design in sports cars then for me TVR currently has no peers. I honestly think they lead the world in both interior and exterior styling, though I accept that ergonomically some of their interiors are substantially inferior to more mass-produced competitors. However, if TVR produced as many cars in as many markets as Ferrari then I have no doubt that their styling would suffer too.
You pays your money, etc.
roadsweeper said:
If you want to see cutting-edge design in sports cars then for me TVR currently has no peers. I honestly think they lead the world in both interior and exterior styling, though I accept that ergonomically some of their interiors are substantially inferior to more mass-produced competitors.
The most cutting edge TVR, design wise in my opinion is the Tuscan. A few weeks ago I saw a blue tuscan parked nest to a black 360 in Central London. It was near Selfridges so you had your usual shoppers from across the board, hell from across the world! Anyway noone was looking at the Tuscan, all eyes were on the 360. There were people around it when I went into the store and when I went out. Thats because its a Ferrari, some would say. Well true there is no doubt that a Ferrari on the road is a very special sight, but it really made the Tuscan look inferior. Don't get me wrong I personally like the look of the Tuscan but next to the 360 it couldn't hold its own in terms in styling.
A black 360 looks like a weapon, its posture on the road is second to none. That car says DO NOT MESS WITH ME. With regards to interior I like the 360s a lot, it has a great finish and is ergonomically better than previous Ferraris. The Tuscans interior looks a bit Star Trek to me.
kind of way!
rich1231 said: Ajay,
i am so pleased you said that about the Black 360.
Yipppeee Yippeee
Im not sleeping tonight
Rich
Oooh God, nearly forgot you are picking it up tomorrow. No sleep for you tonight mate, nor tomorrow night, probably not the night after either. I remember the first night I was in bed by 3.30am and awake by 6.30am. Felt brilliant too, not tired or anything, fully fired up and ready to go. Drove it for about half an hour, but the roads were wet so come back, but went out again every half hour.
When do I get my passenger ride?
I'll let you get used to it first, oh and the tubi needs to go on too!
rich1231 said: Happy Happy Joy Joy.
I am going mental.
Ninja, come to southend bring the other reprobates and we can scare the cruisers!
Rich
I'm up for that! Definitely, I'll have a word with my mate regarding the casino and we'll hook it up one night. I'm thinking Friday night or Saturday night, what do you guys reckon? Maybe in the next coming weeks (after BTaP, unless we can all make this Friday, which I don't think I can, but might try, just give me notice so I can track the Casino owner down, hopefully he's not abroad) I'll try and book the "Don's" table at the Casino for dinner and try to get my mate to come along too (he's got a Boxster, at 22!). Should be fun.
Ninj, Rich, I think we've touched on this Southend cruise / casino thing before. Saaands like a right laaarf to me! Lets do it! We could call it cruise-booze-bet-snooze (or cruise-boose-bet-sleeze for Manu, or at least thats what I've heard ). Rich, I wasn't so sure about anything other than Rosso for a 360 until I stopped at Maranello's on the way back from VW20/10 (as you do..). The black one there looks bl00dy fantastic!! -jealous-
). Rich, I wasn't so sure about anything other than Rosso for a 360 until I stopped at Maranello's on the way back from VW20/10 (as you do..). The black one there looks bl00dy fantastic!! -jealous-Interesting what you say, Ajaym, about the 'stop the traffic' factor of a 360.
However, I doubt the same could be said of a 308 (gorgeous but dated, IMHO), the 550M (awesome in every way but RELATIVELY plain [sorry Manu!
]).
I think the jaw-droppingism of the 360 - and indeed it's illustrious predecessor (my personal wet dream) - have much to do with their sheer apparent size. Like Lambos, they sort of SEEM big! Tivs don't have as much drama because they don't quite hit the supercar spot as critically, right down to and including other factors like relative tyre widths. My passion for mid-engined flight decks must also be significant here, too.
Strangely enough, I have this type of comparison as a direct reminder c/o some photos I took a bit back of my then Cerb parked in a hotel courtyard at 90 degrees to a Diablo VT. Cerby looked great but the devil was just, I dunno; meaner!
And yet contradictorally, you may recall EVO's Harry Metcalfe claiming how this effect would be quite the reverse against a Tuscan. He's wrong!
Aargh, I'm beginning to foam but basically you're right! Thank God I'm driving home tonight in a common or garden Porker.
And Rich, you utter swine: a 360...tomorrow? I guess any pretence at work has gone south for a week or seven?
However, I doubt the same could be said of a 308 (gorgeous but dated, IMHO), the 550M (awesome in every way but RELATIVELY plain [sorry Manu!
]). I think the jaw-droppingism of the 360 - and indeed it's illustrious predecessor (my personal wet dream) - have much to do with their sheer apparent size. Like Lambos, they sort of SEEM big! Tivs don't have as much drama because they don't quite hit the supercar spot as critically, right down to and including other factors like relative tyre widths. My passion for mid-engined flight decks must also be significant here, too.
Strangely enough, I have this type of comparison as a direct reminder c/o some photos I took a bit back of my then Cerb parked in a hotel courtyard at 90 degrees to a Diablo VT. Cerby looked great but the devil was just, I dunno; meaner!
And yet contradictorally, you may recall EVO's Harry Metcalfe claiming how this effect would be quite the reverse against a Tuscan. He's wrong!
Aargh, I'm beginning to foam but basically you're right! Thank God I'm driving home tonight in a common or garden Porker.
And Rich, you utter swine: a 360...tomorrow? I guess any pretence at work has gone south for a week or seven?
Rich and Steve,
Regarding Southend, I can't do this weekend at all, nor next weekend. But perhaps 3 or four weeks time? It can be sort of a post BTaP event? Nearer the time, I'll email you guys off forum, and when we've got an indication of numbers I'll get my friend to sort the casino. The Casino has parking right outside but its not "Casino Parking" if you know what I mean, but their cameras overlook that part and they will take care of the cars for us, last time I went all was okay.
Derestrictor I think you are echoing my feelings there regarding the mid engine business. I really think the midengined shape looks the business. I do really love the look of the 550, it looks fat and f**king mean, but it reminds me too much of my Supra and personally I want a Ferrari to have midengined dimensions with a cab forward design. I still think TVR have among the best interiors, I've never had a proper sit in one, and never had the chance to properly feel it or how well its put together, but design wise it looks the nuts, and perfectly suits the character of the car. I don't think the same style of interior would suit the Ferrari's. They're not "spaceship" "concept" "New Age" "New World Order" etc etc cars, unlike the TVRs!! The Ferrari interiors are very classical Italian things and well suited to the cars, if a little unadventurous and boring (ooops dare I say that?).
Regards
Regarding Southend, I can't do this weekend at all, nor next weekend. But perhaps 3 or four weeks time? It can be sort of a post BTaP event? Nearer the time, I'll email you guys off forum, and when we've got an indication of numbers I'll get my friend to sort the casino. The Casino has parking right outside but its not "Casino Parking" if you know what I mean, but their cameras overlook that part and they will take care of the cars for us, last time I went all was okay.
Derestrictor I think you are echoing my feelings there regarding the mid engine business. I really think the midengined shape looks the business. I do really love the look of the 550, it looks fat and f**king mean, but it reminds me too much of my Supra and personally I want a Ferrari to have midengined dimensions with a cab forward design. I still think TVR have among the best interiors, I've never had a proper sit in one, and never had the chance to properly feel it or how well its put together, but design wise it looks the nuts, and perfectly suits the character of the car. I don't think the same style of interior would suit the Ferrari's. They're not "spaceship" "concept" "New Age" "New World Order" etc etc cars, unlike the TVRs!!
The Ferrari interiors are very classical Italian things and well suited to the cars, if a little unadventurous and boring (ooops dare I say that?). Regards
tend to agree with you guys. i think ferrari have gone too far the other way by trying to become too user friendly with their flagship cars. the 550/575 is awesome but doesn't quite stop u in your tracks like a diablo or a murci does. they need to come out w/ a 12 cylinder mid-engine in addition to whatever pc cruiser they also have. otherwise they will continue to lose ground to lambo and others in the phwoar factor which is what sells supercars at the end of the day.
"perhaps 3 or four weeks time?"
Sounds more like it for me...
"I do really love the look of the 550, it looks fat and f**king mean, but it reminds me too much of my Supra"
Agreed, and - sorry - but I have to say the Vanquish show's how to do it if your gonna go big front engined GT/Sportster.
"I still think TVR have among the best interiors, I've never had a proper sit in one"
Bl00dy hell! We'll get that sorted out ASAP! (Not much space passenger side, but I think you'll fit OK)
>> Edited by trackdemon on Thursday 24th October 12:49
Sounds more like it for me...
"I do really love the look of the 550, it looks fat and f**king mean, but it reminds me too much of my Supra"
Agreed, and - sorry - but I have to say the Vanquish show's how to do it if your gonna go big front engined GT/Sportster.
"I still think TVR have among the best interiors, I've never had a proper sit in one"
Bl00dy hell! We'll get that sorted out ASAP! (Not much space passenger side, but I think you'll fit OK
) >> Edited by trackdemon on Thursday 24th October 12:49
I held off from this thread as long as I possibly could but enough is enough.......
RE - 550 Maranello:
Maybe it was just my extreme good looks but when driving this around, EVERYONE looked, stared and occasionally even pointed - Everyone also knew both what it was and gave it the respect it deserves - it's a FANTASTIC car but crucially it manages to be "Ferrari" without being crass.
I honestly don't know what you guys are talking about - Its low, VERY wide (although not of Murcielago/Diablo proportions) and SEXY.
It's looks will definitely age better than the 360 (which although a fab car is not as nice, I think, as the 550).
However this car is REALLY colour sensitive - I don't give a F
K for discreet - I pick my Ferrari(s) ROSSO, GIALLO, NERO (the last colour being "I'M a MEAN bastard - get outta the way.")
In my opinion the Vanquish is an old mans car - sure it sounds OK but how *MY* Ferrari sounds stock is hardly a problem for me - but I reckon the Aston looks lame - they're all British Racing Green - there's non of the width - there's none of the "extoica" appeal the 550 has - moreover get me behind the wheel of a 550 and I'll thrash the hell out of anyone who reckons the Aston is quicker.. (wanna race?)
Give me around 12-18 months - I'll take my de-cat + unsilenced Rosso 550 and line me up against a Vanquish - you won't be looking at the Aston - and within about 30seconds of twisties the Aston driver wouldn't see which way I had gone.
Hell the Vanquish is a toy lined up agaisnt the proper Astons like the V8 Vantage etc of yesteryear. None of the presence, none of the brute British bulldog appeal either.
I don't get it - People moaned and moaned about the TR being too wild, too wide, too crass, too *80's* and now when Ferrari build a pure class car like the 550, people say Ferrari's have lost their "flair."
I utterly disagree. Modern Ferraris? - they look awesome - the days of spoilers, wings, massive scoops have over - take a look at a Diablo 6.0 and compare to the original Diablo - that's progress - that's whats happened - that's lovely and basically that's what Ferrari have done.
At the end of the day people want to be able to drive supercars without being feeling like their a w*nker. Fair enough. I love the attention but I don't want pimped out "beauty" at the expense of performance and driving ability.
Peace-out homies!
RE - 550 Maranello:
Maybe it was just my extreme good looks but when driving this around, EVERYONE looked, stared and occasionally even pointed - Everyone also knew both what it was and gave it the respect it deserves - it's a FANTASTIC car but crucially it manages to be "Ferrari" without being crass.
I honestly don't know what you guys are talking about - Its low, VERY wide (although not of Murcielago/Diablo proportions) and SEXY.
It's looks will definitely age better than the 360 (which although a fab car is not as nice, I think, as the 550).
However this car is REALLY colour sensitive - I don't give a F
K for discreet - I pick my Ferrari(s) ROSSO, GIALLO, NERO (the last colour being "I'M a MEAN bastard - get outta the way.") In my opinion the Vanquish is an old mans car - sure it sounds OK but how *MY* Ferrari sounds stock is hardly a problem for me
- but I reckon the Aston looks lame - they're all British Racing Green - there's non of the width - there's none of the "extoica" appeal the 550 has - moreover get me behind the wheel of a 550 and I'll thrash the hell out of anyone who reckons the Aston is quicker.. (wanna race?) Give me around 12-18 months - I'll take my de-cat + unsilenced Rosso 550 and line me up against a Vanquish - you won't be looking at the Aston - and within about 30seconds of twisties the Aston driver wouldn't see which way I had gone.
Hell the Vanquish is a toy lined up agaisnt the proper Astons like the V8 Vantage etc of yesteryear. None of the presence, none of the brute British bulldog appeal either.
I don't get it - People moaned and moaned about the TR being too wild, too wide, too crass, too *80's* and now when Ferrari build a pure class car like the 550, people say Ferrari's have lost their "flair."
I utterly disagree. Modern Ferraris? - they look awesome - the days of spoilers, wings, massive scoops have over - take a look at a Diablo 6.0 and compare to the original Diablo - that's progress - that's whats happened - that's lovely and basically that's what Ferrari have done.
At the end of the day people want to be able to drive supercars without being feeling like their a w*nker. Fair enough. I love the attention but I don't want pimped out "beauty" at the expense of performance and driving ability.
Peace-out homies!
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