What makes a Supersportscar, and is this one too extreme?
Discussion
Trev450 said:
Jimjimhim said:
Trev450 said:
- excellent reliability
Caterhams look to be very simple, so not much to go wrong. I bet 1 would be a lot more fun than a big heavy super car. 
Jimjimhim said:
Trev450 said:
Jimjimhim said:
Trev450 said:
- excellent reliability
Caterhams look to be very simple, so not much to go wrong. I bet 1 would be a lot more fun than a big heavy super car. Griffith4ever said:
Jimjimhim said:
Trev450 said:
Jimjimhim said:
Trev450 said:
- excellent reliability
Caterhams look to be very simple, so not much to go wrong. I bet 1 would be a lot more fun than a big heavy super car. It’s quite tricky to tick all of the OP’s boxes. The Exige gets close. Mine is one of the last of the generations (20th anniversary) and its probably the most reliable fun car I’ve had, but still an adrenaline rush, fast yet well-behaved, and a fabulous noise if you have the open valve button. It’s reliable, relatively cheap to buy and run, and reassuringly impractical. Not sub 3s to 60 but close, and anyway that’s one of the less important boxes.
A Noble ticks almost as many boxes and it’s just a bit more special.
A Noble ticks almost as many boxes and it’s just a bit more special.
Spindoctor said:
It’s quite tricky to tick all of the OP’s boxes. The Exige gets close. Mine is one of the last of the generations (20th anniversary) and its probably the most reliable fun car I’ve had, but still an adrenaline rush, fast yet well-behaved, and a fabulous noise if you have the open valve button. It’s reliable, relatively cheap to buy and run, and reassuringly impractical. Not sub 3s to 60 but close, and anyway that’s one of the less important boxes.
A Noble ticks almost as many boxes and it’s just a bit more special.
You know you can pull the vacuum hose off and have the valves open all the time? its a 20 second procedure, you just need to plug the hose with a small wood screw and tie it back. A Noble ticks almost as many boxes and it’s just a bit more special.
Sub 3 seconds to 60 and manual is a small pool indeed.
The answer will be the one the OP owns of course. Except the X-Bow and Brooke don't crack 60 in under 3 seconds.
His will be the only car in a rare venn diagram composed of 17 circles / sets.
Here they are according to t'internet, can't be bothered filtering the mid engined ones and the other criteria, just 0-60 & manual:-
2012 Ariel Atom 500 (V8)
0-60 mph 2.3
2016 Hennessey Venom GT Spyder
0-60 mph 2.4
2015 SSC Tuatara
0-60 mph 2.5
2015 Ariel Atom 3.5R
0-60 mph 2.5
2012 Hennessey Venom GT
0-60 mph 2.5
2007 Caparo T1
0-60 mph 2.5
2010 Pagani Zonda R
0-60 mph 2.6
2013 Ariel Atom 3.5
0-60 mph 2.6
2006 Ultima GTR 720
0-60 mph 2.6
2017 Rezvani Beast
0-60 mph 2.7
2013 Caterham Seven Superlight R500 SV
0-60 mph 2.7
2014 Caterham Seven 620R
0-60 mph 2.7
2007 SSC Ultimate Aero TT
0-60 mph 2.7
2012 BAC Mono
0-60 mph 2.7
2009 IFR Aspid Supersport
0-60 mph 2.8
2015 Rossion Q1
0-60 mph 2.8
2008 Ariel Atom 500 (V8)
0-60 mph 2.8
2011 HTT Plethore
0-60 mph 2.8
2019 Ariel Atom 4
0-60 mph 2.8
2009 Caparo T1 Race Extreme
0-60 mph 2.8
2023 Caterham Seven 620R
0-60 mph 2.8
2010 Koenigsegg Trevita
0-60 mph 2.8
2016 Zenos E10 R
0-60 mph 2.9
2010 Noble M600
0-60 mph 2.9
2016 Ariel Atom 3
0-60 mph 2.9
2006 Ariel Atom 2
0-60 mph 2.9
2007 Ariel Atom 2 Stage 2
0-60 mph 2.9
2009 Ariel Atom 3
0-60 mph 2.9
2011 Ariel Atom 3 Mugen
0-60 mph 2.9
1999 TVR Cerbera Speed-12
0-60 mph 2.9
2012 Zenvo ST1
0-60 mph 2.9
2006 Mosler MT900 GTR
0-60 mph 2.9
The answer will be the one the OP owns of course. Except the X-Bow and Brooke don't crack 60 in under 3 seconds.
His will be the only car in a rare venn diagram composed of 17 circles / sets.
Here they are according to t'internet, can't be bothered filtering the mid engined ones and the other criteria, just 0-60 & manual:-
2012 Ariel Atom 500 (V8)
0-60 mph 2.3
2016 Hennessey Venom GT Spyder
0-60 mph 2.4
2015 SSC Tuatara
0-60 mph 2.5
2015 Ariel Atom 3.5R
0-60 mph 2.5
2012 Hennessey Venom GT
0-60 mph 2.5
2007 Caparo T1
0-60 mph 2.5
2010 Pagani Zonda R
0-60 mph 2.6
2013 Ariel Atom 3.5
0-60 mph 2.6
2006 Ultima GTR 720
0-60 mph 2.6
2017 Rezvani Beast
0-60 mph 2.7
2013 Caterham Seven Superlight R500 SV
0-60 mph 2.7
2014 Caterham Seven 620R
0-60 mph 2.7
2007 SSC Ultimate Aero TT
0-60 mph 2.7
2012 BAC Mono
0-60 mph 2.7
2009 IFR Aspid Supersport
0-60 mph 2.8
2015 Rossion Q1
0-60 mph 2.8
2008 Ariel Atom 500 (V8)
0-60 mph 2.8
2011 HTT Plethore
0-60 mph 2.8
2019 Ariel Atom 4
0-60 mph 2.8
2009 Caparo T1 Race Extreme
0-60 mph 2.8
2023 Caterham Seven 620R
0-60 mph 2.8
2010 Koenigsegg Trevita
0-60 mph 2.8
2016 Zenos E10 R
0-60 mph 2.9
2010 Noble M600
0-60 mph 2.9
2016 Ariel Atom 3
0-60 mph 2.9
2006 Ariel Atom 2
0-60 mph 2.9
2007 Ariel Atom 2 Stage 2
0-60 mph 2.9
2009 Ariel Atom 3
0-60 mph 2.9
2011 Ariel Atom 3 Mugen
0-60 mph 2.9
1999 TVR Cerbera Speed-12
0-60 mph 2.9
2012 Zenvo ST1
0-60 mph 2.9
2006 Mosler MT900 GTR
0-60 mph 2.9
Edited by Bispal on Thursday 3rd October 11:45
Bispal said:
You know you can pull the vacuum hose off and have the valves open all the time? its a 20 second procedure, you just need to plug the hose with a small wood screw and tie it back.
I’ve got a rather nice button that the dealer installed pre-delivery at no cost which allows me to decide when the valve is open. Which in my case is all the time, obviously. Spindoctor said:
Bispal said:
You know you can pull the vacuum hose off and have the valves open all the time? its a 20 second procedure, you just need to plug the hose with a small wood screw and tie it back.
I’ve got a rather nice button that the dealer installed pre-delivery at no cost which allows me to decide when the valve is open. Which in my case is all the time, obviously. 
Mine had nothing....TexMexGuy said:
johnnyreggae said:
Most of Bispal's list are ten years old which makes for an interesting challenge to the warranty aspect.....
I just bought a 2013 MP4-12c with a factory warranty, extendable till 2028…
Hi everyone - I would make a terrible quizmaster or more precisely a terrible setter of pub quiz questions because Super Sonic got the right answer within minutes of me starting this thread .
My apologies Super Sonic for deflecting , but I was keen to hear what other people might be able to think of as alternative cars that might fit this bill .
Bispal I don’t have an Ariel Atom in the garage ! , but find it very attractive for the reasons below .
MingtheMerciless I hear what you say and of course you have direct experience of an Atom 4 which I don’t have .
I think that what follows below is really only applicable to the Atom 4 , the earlier variants being less forgiving and less refined for road use , although just as fast in terms of acceleration and top speed .
So in addition to the criteria that I suggested in my original post I find the following attractive about the Atom 4 and find it difficult to discount the Atom 4 as one of the most affordable super sports cars available ( or indeed supercars available ) :
1) Autocar , the oldest automobile magazine in the world (1895 ) , and long regarded as the standard setter for meticulous road tests , gave the Atom 4 5 stars and specifically commented that this was very unusual especially for a car of this nature
2) The Atom 4 won Autocar,s Best Drivers Car Competition in 2019 against some pretty impressive rivals including some notable supercars
3) And then repeated this feat in 2020 - an apparently unique , or almost unique , accolade
4) And then came Runner-up in 2021 .
5) Similar compliments for the Atom 4 from Evo , Catchpole , and other dependable reviewers …. All of whom said that the Atom 4 was FUN , FUN , FUN.
And this is surely all that matters in a Toy Car .
I must admit that the Atom hadn’t really crossed my radar as a serious consideration until I read all these reviews and noted that the 2019 Autocar test was carried out in the dry , while the 2020 test was carried out in atrociously wet conditions ( I might have got this the wrong way round )
Anyhow , it made me think that if a car could shine so brightly in such different conditions it warranted some consideration.
( I test drove an Atom 2 in 2002 and an Atom 3 in 2008 - in February , in about 4 degrees Centigrade , and really couldn’t control either car at all . I drove an Atom 4 in July for all of about 3 minutes on a deserted country road and was totally , totally smitten )
6) The power to weight ratios and torque to weight ratios are simply mind-blowing if that sort of thing rocks your boat , and shallow as it is , it does rock mine .Hypercar stats for the price of a new Civic Type R ( I walked into a Honda dealership and yes it’s about £50k for a Type R on the road )
7) Which brings us to the Honda drivetrain - that engine and gearbox should be dependable
8) Which brings us to service , maintenance , and warranty costs . I genuinely fear the bills that can accompany supercar ownership . Some might say that you shouldn’t be playing in this playpen if you can’t afford exorbitant bills , but what if you could get all the pros for a much more affordable cost ( and take on the chin a few obvious cons enroute - more of which later )
Dealing with a pretty much bog standard a Honda drivetrain should be less worrying on the wallet and self warranting should be an acceptable risk .
Insurance costs will be much more manageable too
9) No weather protection , having to use a helmet ( eye injuries can be difficult to manage - don’t ask me how I know ) , and getting cold and wet , as MingtheMerciless has already stated , are definitive cons . And that windscreen is so ugly .
10) But sans windscreen and additional rollcage the Atom 4 looks every bit the unusual supercar - at least to my eyes .
Other supercar features:
.. Rarity .Ariel only make about a 100 Atoms a year ,many of which are exported.
.. Long waiting list . About 2 or 3 years
.. Gets your heart racing - at standstill and on the move
.. The established supercar manufacturers are making highly limited edition cars without doors , roofs or windscreens . Join this club on a budget with an Atom 4
I absolutely agree that we would all want to tick the Lambo or Ferrari or McLaren box first - simply because that is what we have all dreamt about forever . But these lightweight , narrow , open , cars - like the Brooke , BAC Mono , KTM X BOW , Vuhl ,and Dallara Stradale also have the potential to thrill like the well established supercars , and then have the added potential to thrill like nothing else on the road - through their agility and their exposure to the elements .
Most of all now , I want a car that can thrill at 30 mph .
So many cars now don’t wake up until you have well breached license-losing speeds , and that makes them pretty dull and useless .
The Atom 4,s hisses , whoops , and whizzes at 20 mph ( check out the videos on YouTube ) , and its demands of you the driver , will immediately wake you up I think .
And surely you want a supercar to wake you up , to breathe life into you - otherwise a Mercedes C class or a Ford Fiesta will surely satisfy all your needs for an honest transportation device at a fraction of the financial , time-consuming , and headache-inducing cost .
So ,now that I have belatedly shown my hand ( and my apologies again to Super Sonic for not immediately acknowledging that he got it right in one ) , what do you think precludes the Atom 4 from being considered a genuine supercar , and do you think that these considerations have any real merit , or are simply based on bias and snobbery -especially if you have already enjoyed a F, L, or Mc car in the past .
My apologies Super Sonic for deflecting , but I was keen to hear what other people might be able to think of as alternative cars that might fit this bill .
Bispal I don’t have an Ariel Atom in the garage ! , but find it very attractive for the reasons below .
MingtheMerciless I hear what you say and of course you have direct experience of an Atom 4 which I don’t have .
I think that what follows below is really only applicable to the Atom 4 , the earlier variants being less forgiving and less refined for road use , although just as fast in terms of acceleration and top speed .
So in addition to the criteria that I suggested in my original post I find the following attractive about the Atom 4 and find it difficult to discount the Atom 4 as one of the most affordable super sports cars available ( or indeed supercars available ) :
1) Autocar , the oldest automobile magazine in the world (1895 ) , and long regarded as the standard setter for meticulous road tests , gave the Atom 4 5 stars and specifically commented that this was very unusual especially for a car of this nature
2) The Atom 4 won Autocar,s Best Drivers Car Competition in 2019 against some pretty impressive rivals including some notable supercars
3) And then repeated this feat in 2020 - an apparently unique , or almost unique , accolade
4) And then came Runner-up in 2021 .
5) Similar compliments for the Atom 4 from Evo , Catchpole , and other dependable reviewers …. All of whom said that the Atom 4 was FUN , FUN , FUN.
And this is surely all that matters in a Toy Car .
I must admit that the Atom hadn’t really crossed my radar as a serious consideration until I read all these reviews and noted that the 2019 Autocar test was carried out in the dry , while the 2020 test was carried out in atrociously wet conditions ( I might have got this the wrong way round )
Anyhow , it made me think that if a car could shine so brightly in such different conditions it warranted some consideration.
( I test drove an Atom 2 in 2002 and an Atom 3 in 2008 - in February , in about 4 degrees Centigrade , and really couldn’t control either car at all . I drove an Atom 4 in July for all of about 3 minutes on a deserted country road and was totally , totally smitten )
6) The power to weight ratios and torque to weight ratios are simply mind-blowing if that sort of thing rocks your boat , and shallow as it is , it does rock mine .Hypercar stats for the price of a new Civic Type R ( I walked into a Honda dealership and yes it’s about £50k for a Type R on the road )
7) Which brings us to the Honda drivetrain - that engine and gearbox should be dependable
8) Which brings us to service , maintenance , and warranty costs . I genuinely fear the bills that can accompany supercar ownership . Some might say that you shouldn’t be playing in this playpen if you can’t afford exorbitant bills , but what if you could get all the pros for a much more affordable cost ( and take on the chin a few obvious cons enroute - more of which later )
Dealing with a pretty much bog standard a Honda drivetrain should be less worrying on the wallet and self warranting should be an acceptable risk .
Insurance costs will be much more manageable too
9) No weather protection , having to use a helmet ( eye injuries can be difficult to manage - don’t ask me how I know ) , and getting cold and wet , as MingtheMerciless has already stated , are definitive cons . And that windscreen is so ugly .
10) But sans windscreen and additional rollcage the Atom 4 looks every bit the unusual supercar - at least to my eyes .
Other supercar features:
.. Rarity .Ariel only make about a 100 Atoms a year ,many of which are exported.
.. Long waiting list . About 2 or 3 years
.. Gets your heart racing - at standstill and on the move
.. The established supercar manufacturers are making highly limited edition cars without doors , roofs or windscreens . Join this club on a budget with an Atom 4
I absolutely agree that we would all want to tick the Lambo or Ferrari or McLaren box first - simply because that is what we have all dreamt about forever . But these lightweight , narrow , open , cars - like the Brooke , BAC Mono , KTM X BOW , Vuhl ,and Dallara Stradale also have the potential to thrill like the well established supercars , and then have the added potential to thrill like nothing else on the road - through their agility and their exposure to the elements .
Most of all now , I want a car that can thrill at 30 mph .
So many cars now don’t wake up until you have well breached license-losing speeds , and that makes them pretty dull and useless .
The Atom 4,s hisses , whoops , and whizzes at 20 mph ( check out the videos on YouTube ) , and its demands of you the driver , will immediately wake you up I think .
And surely you want a supercar to wake you up , to breathe life into you - otherwise a Mercedes C class or a Ford Fiesta will surely satisfy all your needs for an honest transportation device at a fraction of the financial , time-consuming , and headache-inducing cost .
So ,now that I have belatedly shown my hand ( and my apologies again to Super Sonic for not immediately acknowledging that he got it right in one ) , what do you think precludes the Atom 4 from being considered a genuine supercar , and do you think that these considerations have any real merit , or are simply based on bias and snobbery -especially if you have already enjoyed a F, L, or Mc car in the past .
Edited by carspath on Friday 4th October 18:16
I agree with a lot of what you are saying to be honest, I think too many people are blinkered by the never ending quest for high numbers in terms of BHP and top speed on today's sports/super/hypercars. Something that excites at low speeds is far more engaging, in my book. Sound and feel are far more important than the badge on the front. Of course, I'd love to tick the supercar box one day, but then I think why not keep what I have already in my Exige 410 as it really could be the forever car.
DeejRC - but why should a supercar necessarily have a windscreen or a roof or conventional bodywork ?
Are the multimillion dollar cars which fit this description that Ferrari , and McLaren will only sell to their preferred customers not supercars ?
Just asking .
To try and breakthrough the stereotype that afflicts us all .
I too wanted a L or F car first , and would never have considered an Atom , but that was because I was not being rational or clinical about what I wanted - which is entirely fine on a discretionary purchase toy car .
Jamie , my drive in an Exige 410 was brilliant - it’s an exceptional car and I don’t think that you are being shortchanged at all . Enjoy !
And it goes to show just how loose and corrosive this term ‘supercar’ can be .
Are the multimillion dollar cars which fit this description that Ferrari , and McLaren will only sell to their preferred customers not supercars ?
Just asking .
To try and breakthrough the stereotype that afflicts us all .
I too wanted a L or F car first , and would never have considered an Atom , but that was because I was not being rational or clinical about what I wanted - which is entirely fine on a discretionary purchase toy car .
Jamie , my drive in an Exige 410 was brilliant - it’s an exceptional car and I don’t think that you are being shortchanged at all . Enjoy !
And it goes to show just how loose and corrosive this term ‘supercar’ can be .
sjc said:
Just done 1000 miles in a week in this,quite a few of which were around the magnificent roads of the IOM.
17 years of ownership in and there’s still nothing I’d swap it for in the real world.
The IOM motor festival? I was over for a long weekend saw your car out and about looked fantastic 17 years of ownership in and there’s still nothing I’d swap it for in the real world.
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